I'm sorry...but THIS IS NOT FAIR!!!!!

yrpfilms

yrpfilms

Well-known member
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$35?

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$35???

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This is the most reasonable @ $20??

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$67????



I'm a reasonable guy and I understand that precision matters.....but the SINGLE RAIL BLOCK IS THE BIGGEST SCAM IN TOWN!!

Would someone please blow this market out of the water with a well made reasonably priced rail clamp?
 
I think you fail to realize the concept of mass production. There's a very small market (that's already crowded) for people who want these pieces. You can't just hop down to Best Buy to pick them up. Therefore, the cost is what it is.

Like Erik said, why don't you just make your own?
 
It's like looking at an integrated circuit and saying "that's small, why should it cost $XXX?" There is R&D, patent search, prototyping and on and on. A lot of costs go against that little part there. It is very likely that you couldn't make a set of six to the same standard for less than $300. And that's if you're doing all the research and prototyping time for free.
 
Those prices are very reasonable. I've considered making film tools as a business. I know a lot about manufacturing, distribution, and marketing. I would hesitate to compete with that quality at those prices considering the volume.
 
When it comes to the costs to design, manufacture, market and distribute things, most people as straight consumers have a business IQ about 60 points lower than a brick. Its sad but true.
 
i agree , but it is what it is until someone low balls the other guy. Cost has come down in this market dramatically and it will come down more and more in the near future.
 
That isn't necessarily true. Look at the business Arri, Zacuto and O'Connor are doing - they are competing successfully with quality products that clearly defy "the market is driven from the bottom" model.

I'd encourage anyone who thinks professional results can be achieved for nothing to look at the beginnings of the Hocus Focus wireless follow-focus and see where they are today from a price to performance standpoint. Turns out the gap between DIY-pro-quality and existing professional products wasn't that big after all. It costs what it costs because everyone has to get from napkin sketch to production line product in precisely the same way. Might be that a bigger company has more overhead, but they also have systems and resources that spread the costs over multiple areas to accomplish what one DIY interest is doing alone with little or nothing. The DIYer has to pay for every step of the process and charge it back against the product when it goes to production model - or be willing to walk away from the money they've invested to get there.

I sell lighting with an eye toward performance, value, longevity and serviceability (the mfg. really needs to be around two years after you buy it). If it falls too far short on any of those points, I don't want it in my kit and I don't put it in front of my customers. Part of the price-value conversation needs to address the fact that these tools we're buying are modular and should work across multiple platforms and generations. For that flexibility and longevity, we should be willing to pay a fair-market price.
 
FWIW,

I used to own a machine shop, and still do industrial design projects part time as a CAD 3d modeler for large and small fabrication. As others have mentioned, there are so many costs associated with bringing a low volume product to market it is just silly. Call up a business insurance agent and ask what the minimum premium is for product liability insurance. The product is just a stupid little widget, and there aren't going to be many built, but there is still a minimum premium to write a policy. Almost always, the underwriters will require an engineering review and that costs too! If you have any assets, you need to protect yourself since lawsuits do happen. And after all that, you have to charge enough to recover all the costs of design, production, storage, marketing, administrative costs, and make some profit. In the end, the market will decide if there is value in the product.

The easy solution if you don't think there is value in the product, don't buy it. You can have a vote in the market place.

Grant
 
ggrantly said:
The easy solution if you don't think there is value in the product, don't buy it. You can have a vote in the market place.
Click to expand...
+1000!

Seriously -- if you think it's overpriced, don't buy it. The manufacturers are not your slaves who somehow "owe you" to make whatever product you want, at whatever price you want to pay. They are entitled to make whatever they want and price it at whatever they want to. And if you think it's too high, you don't buy it. And if nobody buys it, either the manufacturer lowers his price, or goes out of business.

If you think it's easy to make something like this for less and sell it profitably for less, that's called a "business opportunity". We have seen many businesses spring to life right here on these boards, including Cinevate, Redrock Micro, Letus and others, who looked at the current situation and thought they could do better for less.
 
Hi Yrpfilms,

I know something like this can seem frustrating, that something so seemingly small and insignificant can cost these ammounts, but you really need to appricaite the whole process.

I make stuff for the film industry, and I see this day in and day out, the process for making stuff like this is difficult. As someone else has mentioned, people are making 20 and 30 unit runs, they are not mass produced in china. Something like this has to be machined, theres no reliable way of casting or moulding something if you need the holes to be round and the finish to be good, certainly not on a small run.

The machine that makes our Hocus Focus parts cost a quater of a million pounds. Ok, you don't need a machine that advanced, its just what we have, but even with a lower end, simple machine, its still 50 grand. You need someone to run it, and skilled workers wont work for a dollar a day. They consume a lot of power, and the barrels of concentrated cutting oil cost thousands, and the cutters cost a lot and they don't last forever.

So if you look at the wole process from raw material finished product, it goes something like this:

Raw material comes in, and is cut up, we usually skim it down to size first.

Mounted in the machine for the first operation, which can take an hour or so.

Often there are chamfers or radiuses on both sides, so the part is taken out, turned over and run again.

After initial machining, the cross holes and threads need to be put in, and we do that on a manual machine, so someone has to stand there and spot the hole off, drill the clearence hole, then do a pilot hole, start eht thread off on the mill, then usually tap down to depth by hand to avoid snapping the tap.

Next it needs to be anodised, which is a pretty dark art, especially when doing black. Our anodisers bead blast, chemically degrease, chemically brighten, anodise, die, seal, clean by hand, dry and then inspect - this is a service that costs a lot, but its necessary for a hard wearing anodise coat.

Don't forget ontop of all of this, the Jag35 one has a machined clamp lever as well, so all of the steps above, repeat again for the clamp lever.

You then need the nuts and bolts, and you need to assmeble it. If the product is laser marked or engraved, this costs money too.

Don't forget you also need to cover overheads, even things like hosting the website etc etc.


All in all, this stuff costs a lot to make. It may seem simple, but this really is not the case. If these were being bashed out by the million in china, maybe they would be two dollars each, but they are made one by one, and this is not a cheap or quick process.

You will find if you wanted one of those ad you designed it yourself and took it to a machine shop, they would quote you 200 dollars to make one.


You may think 35 dollars is a lot, but really its a bargain, and I think people that put as much effort into making this stuff as I put into mine should charge more.


by all means make your own ones, but as I found when I started making my own stuff, this sort of thing is not cheap. You will come to the same conclusion, and it will be you that gets very frustrated with people who think that this sort of thing is expensive to buy - it really is not, this is an absolute steal.

I would buy up as many of the Jag clamps as you can before they put the price up to something that reflects the work and time that goes into making something like that.


You say that these prices are not fair, you really need to understand how much this stuff can cost to make and re consider. As a manufacturer myself, I find people complaining that parts like this are too expensive, very, very unfair.

Here are some videos of my parts being made, hopefully this will help demonstrate what I have been saying.

http://vimeo.com/17249761
http://vimeo.com/6425506
 
YRP, if you are not into DIY you can just use a hose clamp, around 50 cents. Doesn't look good but works the same; you may not want to use one depending if you are trying to impress people with your rig rather than your output. You could also consider selling hose clamps as "DSLR rail clamps" on EBay, for say 20 times the price you paid and undercut the others. Another business springing to life right here.
 
When I used to own a machine shop and did lots of little job shop stuff, not unlike the parts in question. And about twice a month, someone would come in and we would have this conversation, exactly:

Customer: "I want you to prototype this great new product, and I want to include you when we go into production, and you will get rich with me".

Me: "Great, I'm in!"

Customer: "So I want you to give me a great deal on the prototype, and when we make millions of my widget, you can really get fat"

Me: "Tell you what, you pay me full price for the first one, and I'll make you a great deal when we make millions".

Customer leaves.

Edit: Now that I think about it, that's not much different than the video business, taking deferred payment based on profit.

Best Regards,
Grant
 
By the way, with the Space Shuttle getting grounded, NASA has some toilet seats for sale....

(you might have to be a little older to understand)
 
I'm still trying to decide if I should buy a couple of rod clamps or a Candy Apple Red Ferrari Testarossa.
 
The Ferrari might be the better investment in the long-term, though insuring the 15mm rod accessory will cost you far less.
 
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