I'm directing documentary for a producer, but he keeps changing everything.

[JimS2]

The producer is someone who worked on a short film of mine, so I am helping him on his documentary short film in return. However, just when the documentary was almost finished, the host of it, became unavailable now, and could not do the finishing narration. But now the producer is wanting me and everyone else, to do an entirely different documentary with different people and a new host. But this new one is not a short feature film documentary, like we agreed to before. He wants to do an entire miniseries now. This was not what we agreed to before, and I have two other filmmaking jobs coming up that will interfere scheduling wise. But he is really pressuring me and possibly the others now, wanting us to commit to this. We did commit to the original feature documentary before, but now, it's been changed to a miniseries about different things now.

And the shoot dates are constantly changing, all the time, and there doesn't seem to be any real organization. Things are getting shot, but it's not really organized at all, and it's really effecting my ability to direct it, especially since I have to rethink everything constantly based on these changes. Plus I don't think anything that has been shot before is usable, since the narrative keeps changing. What do you think? Do you think I should tell him I did not agree to a miniseries, and we need to come up with a plan that involves an end shoot date, and stick to it, and not change anything more? Or would that be too harsh?

 

[combatentropy]

just when the documentary was almost finished [...] the producer is wanting me and everyone else, to do [...] an entire miniseries now.

The producer sounds completely insane.

I have two other filmmaking jobs coming up that will interfere

Well, there you go.

But he is really pressuring me and possibly the others now, wanting us to commit to this.

And the shoot dates are constantly changing, all the time, and there doesn't seem to be any real organization.[...] Plus I don't think anything that has been shot before is usable, since the narrative keeps changing.

The producer sounds completely insane.

What do you think?

Why do you have to ask?

 

[JimS2]

I don't know, I guess I just like helping people out and don't like being a quitter on people, especially if they helped me with a project of mine before. The producer is acting like he is under a lot of pressure though, so maybe he is just really ambitious about it.

 

[ahalpert]

I don't know, I guess I just like helping people out and don't like being a quitter on people.

He's abusing you and he's probably not even organized enough to make a miniseries worth all this effort.

Bow out gracefully while you still can.

In these circumstances, I always try to be as diplomatic as possible so I dont burn my bridges. Even if i think I will never want to work with them again

 

[JimS2]

Yeah I am trying to be supportive and I told him I will shoot this week but depending on how it goes, I think I will likely bow out then at the end of this week if things do not go well, if that is best. I just hate saying I will do something and then taking it back, since I already said I will try to help now that the host is gone.

 

[Josh Bass]

When you did your project, how organized was it? Did you have a planned schedule, and stick to it, and not make huge changes on everyone at the last minute and demand they roll with it? Then why should you not expect the same of him? Fair is fair, and if you followed through with your plan and he is completely changing his (for the worse), how is that fair? You can agree to help at another time IF he has his stuff together on that occasion.

 

[paulears]

No contract, no proper plan again Ryan? If you';ve finished what you were paid to do (or agreed to do unpaid) then grow the missing set and say NO. You followed the plan, you finished the gig, and it's not your fault the thing n' be finished - although surely you could record a bit of dialogue remotely if there's a script.

You really need to remember that as the Director, you make your product. Your producer is a complete idiot. Everyone concerned must realise this. Minor changes are a pain - but what he proposes is crazy and you do not wish to be associated with it, so walk - and encourage others to do so too!

 

[Peter C.]

This reminds me of a conversation a while ago about how you might misinterpret a coldness of professionals on set. The point being when you get involved in trading favors and owing people... Generally speaking the best way to keep your friends is not to mix the two. Not that this guy is your friend it sounds a bit messy. I'd rather work for less, or free, but with a clear understanding of no strings attached. I'm happy to do you a favor if it is my choice and not some sort of gray arrangement. This producer sounds unorganized and is trying to pull you into his mess by guilt tripping you. What ever you do you need to set boundaries and limits, don't bend them it will only encourage him. Be polite but firm.

 

[JimS2]

Oh okay. Yes I know fair is fair, and he did help me shoot over an extra day for my short film before. It's just with mine, I still stuck to the same short film, where all of a sudden he has switched the project to a miniseries, but does not know how many episodes at this point. So I thought maybe there is a difference between helping out for a few extra days on the same short film, vs, switching out the short film to a different miniseries, all of a sudden.

 

[Peter C.]

If you owe him that's fine, you'll agree to help him either for one show, or one day what every you owe him. You have other jobs you have made commitments to. If you are available you will be happy to help him as long as it doesn't conflict. Leave it at that.

As a matter of self reflection you can see why people don't want to work for producer/director who doesn't know what they're doing. They pull you into their chaos. Next time you decide to direct, think about that.

 

[Josh Bass]

A truly fair way to do it (to me) is an hour for hour/day for day trade. How long was your project? Lets say three days or 30 hours (doesnt matter if this is the actual number, its an example). Thats all you owe him, period. Miniseries, wedding, home sex tape, snuff film, doesnt matter. He gave you 30 hours/3 days, thats all you owe.

 

[JimS2]

Oh okay thanks. That makes sense. My project was about 20 hours and so far I have shot about 12 for him. So I can give him about 8 more maybe then, and I am fine doing another short film documentary for more experience. I can go more hours over what I owe for more experience, it's just if I am doing a miniseries, I want to know how many episodes in advance, and what they are even about, which he has not decided yet, it seems.

 

[Peter C.]

A truly fair way to do it (to me) is an hour for hour/day for day trade. How long was your project? Lets say three days or 30 hours (doesnt matter if this is the actual number, its an example). Thats all you owe him, period. Miniseries, wedding, home sex tape, snuff film, doesnt matter. He gave you 30 hours/3 days, thats all you owe.

LOL

 

[JimS2]

Okay thanks. Well I can just tell him that I am happy to help but I need to know how many episodes first before I agree to any more than just one, if that sounds good.

 

[JAMedia]

. Mini series, wedding, home sex tape, snuff film,

I'm available

 

[paulears]

The thing here is the expectation of long term commitment. Agreeing to a few days for a shoot is fine - even if low paid it can be fitted in, but a mini-series? Common sense says that only fools would really commit with the current work situation. No way can you say yes with any kind of honesty and realism to an open ended, long term low paid/favour way of working. You yourself have already mentioned the chaos that happens when somebody runs out of time and has to move on. Surely this producer understands basic production budgeting? I've been happily working on some as and when projects but the clients are FULLY AWARE that they will come second to any normal fee work that comes in, and my clients understand when Wednesday gets cancelled Tuesday afternoon because real bill paying work comes in. Yesterday, I worked all afternoon - probably nearly five hours for £25, and I give 20% of that to the Government! Today, I've made double that in an hour when an email arrived. Your people need a swift introduction to movie making budgeting.

 

[JAMedia]

Your people need a swift introduction to movie making budgeting.

The fantasy is ON SCREEN it has to be reality when it comes to making the fantasy.

The problem seems to be a lot of these directors have a dream/fantasy in their heads and see the final on screen fantasy without it fully sinking home that everyone else is in reality and has to buy essential things like champagne, cocaine, Lamborghini's and "personal assistants"

I think it was one of the YouTube channels like Film Riot or similar that pointed out that the main thing shoe-string directors have to realise it is their dream not anyone else's. The rest of the crew won't have the production as the same priority. The point was "look after your crew" of friends, family and fellow budget film makers.

 

[JimS2]

The thing here is the expectation of long term commitment. Agreeing to a few days for a shoot is fine - even if low paid it can be fitted in, but a mini-series? Common sense says that only fools would really commit with the current work situation. No way can you say yes with any kind of honesty and realism to an open ended, long term low paid/favour way of working. You yourself have already mentioned the chaos that happens when somebody runs out of time and has to move on. Surely this producer understands basic production budgeting? I've been happily working on some as and when projects but the clients are FULLY AWARE that they will come second to any normal fee work that comes in, and my clients understand when Wednesday gets cancelled Tuesday afternoon because real bill paying work comes in. Yesterday, I worked all afternoon - probably nearly five hours for £25, and I give 20% of that to the Government! Today, I've made double that in an hour when an email arrived. Your people need a swift introduction to movie making budgeting.

Oh okay. Well now he is telling me the plan is now I am directing an episode once a week. And now I'm thinking how are we suppose to shoot an episode once a week? I don't even know how the material he has can go beyond just one or two episodes. What's the rest of this thing about?

So I feel like he has now added onto the plan again by an episode once a week. From directing and shooting to post production and release, once a week. Which I find trouble to do with not only because I have a job and other projects, but also because I don't know what this thing is even about anymore, in terms of directing it.

I want to help him because he helped me out of jam with my previous short film, when he came in as a last minute replacement, but I feel like the jam he is asking me to help him out with, is much bigger, and it keeps changing.

 

[Josh Bass]

Right. So AGAIN, tell him you dont him anything beyond the number of hours he put in for you.

 

[JimS2]

Sure. I will put into one more episode, for this week, but then I need to cut it off. And what makes it frustrating it his he will send me messages with the changed plans and then tell me where to be and when the deadline is, but remain unavailable to talk about it.

He worked as a stunt and fight choreographer on one of my shorts, so I thought that maybe if I help him out , he would help me out with another one in the future. But I feel I cannot meet his goals, if they keep changing with no end plan so far.