Im a DP not a camera operator, but...?

Gary Huff said:
Red One MX is still an incredibly viable camera system. If you can snag one for $10k, I'd jump on that in a heartbeat.



Yeah, those thirty Epic purchases for films like The Amazing Spider-Man and The Hobbit really don't help the bottom line, do they?
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Well from a search on the web, for the Scarlett, with a PL mount, the camera comes in at $13K, out of 'my' price range... and had I $13K I would start
thinking about renting... at even $1500 that would be 9-10 days worth of ARRI Alexa.

From the same price list, an Epic-M package is listed at $58K, and I believe the ARRI Alexa is in that ballpark as well, in terms of outright purchase.

So, it will remain to be seen if 'brand identification' wins over 'innovation'...
 
The first thing the OP needs to buy is a business plan. You can dream, and buy bits and pieces, and maybe not hurt yourself too badly, but buying expensive cams is a fools errand if you don't know for sure how you are going to make money. Lighting and similar hardware doesn't change to much and if selected carefully can hold its value reasonably well. Todays 30k cam will be available in five years for 5k and your expensive cam investment will be down the tubes unless you know how you are going to pay for it today, or at least this year.

Grant
 
^ That's kinda why I don't want to invest in camera stuff. Because no matter how good of gear you get, next week there could be something better. But not necessarly with lighting.
 
Yeah, those thirty Epic purchases for films like The Amazing Spider-Man and The Hobbit really don't help the bottom line, do they?
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haha, Just a little:), I think Red will be fine, I think their more stable now than they have ever been, their getting a foothold on the lower budget community now, and to honest, I think once they see how viable the lower budget "scarlet" does, they will dive in with more lower priced items to gain an even bigger customer base.

​
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
Well from a search on the web, for the Scarlett, with a PL mount, the camera comes in at $13K, out of 'my' price range... and had I $13K I would start
thinking about renting... at even $1500 that would be 9-10 days worth of ARRI Alexa.

From the same price list, an Epic-M package is listed at $58K, and I believe the ARRI Alexa is in that ballpark as well, in terms of outright purchase.

So, it will remain to be seen if 'brand identification' wins over 'innovation'...
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I'm a big supporter of renting. Most people *should* rent... because unless you're a constant working director or a successful camera rental individual or business, you need to work often for the camera to pay itself off, especially fast enough in a rapidly changing camerascape. So I thnk your mentality is correct if you're somebody who is looking to just shoot one film at a time, and you want it to look the best. Renting an Epic or Alexa and nice lenses will be much less than buying.

That said... $1,500/day is typical for an Alexa body, might be down to like 1,200/day now. But let's not forget the extra $400 for the Cooke Panchro/i's, or $600-700 for the UltraPrimes, or $400 for just one Angeniuex Optimo DP. Maybe $250 if you go superspeeds, RPP's or an older zoom. Then add mattebox, FF, filters, tripod head, sticks, etc.

But in all fairness, that cost of a Scarlett (13k) would also be drastically inflated if you bought an Arri MB, Oconnor head, Arri FF, and etc. The oconnor 2065 is 10,000 brand new. It likely rents for $100/day. You can see the savings and advantages of renting. A set of Optimo DP's will cost around $40,000, but rents for like %2 of that.


At the same time, not everyone needs an Epic or Alexa over a Scarlett, especially if you are doing web work and you don't need over cranking and etc. Also, the Epic-M was at that price, but I believe the Epic X is not nearly as high in cost, making the gap between Alexa and Epic further, but the people using Alexa, really don't care. Alexa is still cheap compared to film and really big TV shows, commercials and films can easily afford it, so the price difference is really an indie concern and nothing more.
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
I'm a big supporter of renting. Most people *should* rent... because unless you're a constant working director or a successful camera rental individual or business, you need to work often for the camera to pay itself off, especially fast enough in a rapidly changing camerascape. So I thnk your mentality is correct if you're somebody who is looking to just shoot one film at a time, and you want it to look the best. Renting an Epic or Alexa and nice lenses will be much less than buying.
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I agree. However, I like to have good camera at my disposal that I can use for a variety of different shooting conditions, and so far the HPX-170 has fit that nicely. I'm looking to replace it and from what I've seen of the C300, it looks like the sweet spot between the high end look and the portability that DSLRs can give (with none of the drawbacks), though it's far more of an expense.
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
At the same time, not everyone needs an Epic or Alexa over a Scarlett, especially if you are doing web work and you don't need over cranking and etc. Also, the Epic-M was at that price, but I believe the Epic X is not nearly as high in cost, making the gap between Alexa and Epic further, but the people using Alexa, really don't care. Alexa is still cheap compared to film and really big TV shows, commercials and films can easily afford it, so the price difference is really an indie concern and nothing more.
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For me, my number for having instant, allhour, access is about $5K or less... Which puts me in the DSLR range these days. I did buy a DVX100 6 years ago, and that worked until the DSLRs caught up. For me the issues of 'learning to light', and for me in particular, learning to understand 'continuous' lights, rather than strobes, can be done with either the Canons or in my case, the GH-1.

For 'bigger' cameras there is a certain amount of knobology that is required to effectively run the camera... hence probably the need for a 'camera operator', in addition to the DP. Hence if someone was envisioning targeting the low end commercial market, probably eventually investing in something higher end would be appropriate. There are forumulas for 'buy/rent/lease' in other industries, so I'm sure there are for this industry. (For example I've never 'owned' a Rhode&Schwarz analyzer... in fact, I've rarely rented... I've got the local rep to allow me to 'evaluate' the equipment... but that Probably doesn't happen much in the camera world, unless one does have a rep friend...)
 
If I were a student getting ready to graduate, my first priority wound not be to worry about job titles like I'm a DP not a camera operator, or spending money on gear. My first priority wound be to find work!
 
And to find work, you need gear... That's what were saying.

I'm NOT looking at investing in a camera! I'd rather rent then buying.

I'm asking about gear. If I have a big paid shoot, sure I'd rent everything I can. But since I'm a student, I can't get rates so high I can afford to rent everything. So, somethings I will have to own.. Especially since not everything I do is considered paid. Some stuff is just to build up reputation and a reel for myself, which is all no pay.
 
Yeah Ryan... but don't you own a RED One and very sweet set of Cooke lenses? Or have you sold the RED? (NEVER sell those lenses!!).
 
DDirector said:
And to find work, you need gear... That's what were saying.
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Just the other day i found some of my earliest DP work on one of my old hard drives - the work was dreadful but it also reminded me how i started out... making $50 then $75/day then $150, $250 etc... None of those jobs required gear because frankly they were paying barely anything.

With gear you can charge extra, yes, but at the same time do you think an amateur producer who thinks they can pay the DP $75/day will want to hear that you also come with full lighting package at $1k/day?
 
As a DP, I currently own a couple of Arri tungstens. But I also plan on BUYING a 1200w HMI, a 4Bank Kino with 2 C-Stands.

This is related to lighting. I just want to own the things that I can buy so I don't have to rent, so I get stuff that is only worth renting then.

But as for Camera gear, what should be owned by me and what should be rented? - excluding the actual camera.
Such as: Tripod, dolly, mattebox, follow focus, etc.

*with my dslr shoots, I plan to rent lenses. Probably the Zeiss lenses for easier focusing.
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
Just the other day i found some of my earliest DP work on one of my old hard drives - the work was dreadful but it also reminded me how i started out... making $50 then $75/day then $150, $250 etc... None of those jobs required gear because frankly they were paying barely anything.

With gear you can charge extra, yes, but at the same time do you think an amateur producer who thinks they can pay the DP $75/day will want to hear that you also come with full lighting package at $1k/day?
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In my experience, when you're just starting out and have nothing to your name... it's not charging extra that the gear gets you, it's the gig in the first place. Many jobs I've gotten not because I was particularly talented (at the time, I wasn't), but because I was competent... and had the gear.
 
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