Im a DP not a camera operator, but...?

D

DDirector

Veteran
Im a director of photography and have been a camera operator before. I am willing to do it, but not the route I want to take. (Except for being an underwater camera operator).

Since im just getting out of college soon, and aim to be a DP, is it still worth investing in camera gear?

I want to invest in lighting gear, but i dont know if I should invest in my DSLR gear too, even though i don't want to be a camera operator. By camera gear I mean: Mattebox, ND's, Follow Focus, Dolly's, etc.
Or just stick with lighting gear: ND Gels, C-Stands, Flags, Scrims, etc?It just seems as though most DP's these days need everything!
 
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You either need everything or nothing :)

It's really up to you. What I do is keep a running list of equipment I would like to buy with prices from various retailers. Then I determine what the most valuable upgrade or new piece of equipment is. It's usually really simple: as much as I may want new light stands, I have light stands that are old and beaten up, but I don't have a bag for my tripod, so I order a tripod bag; as much as I want to spend around $600 in Tiffen 4x4 filters, I have 77mm circular filters that will do the job for now, but I don't have a solid individual case for my lenses, which I intend to rent out, so I need get a Pelican storm case, etc...

But, I often operate as a DP, so I can use everything; I also work in G&E on the side, which brings in a nice bit of extra cash. I rarely just operate nowadays, unless it's for a studio TV show, which I haven't done in a while.

It's honestly up to you. No one can really tell you what to do because your work style and jobs will somewhat determine what you should invest in.

I would say that investing in grip and lighting is not really worth it unless you are using that stuff for paid shoots all the time or if you have a truck you can put everything in and rent out to make money when you're not woring. C-stands, apples, bags, combo stands, tungsten lights, flags, frames, expendables, cables, and other assorted grippery are very cheap to rent but cost a lot up front to own, especially to ship. For me, it's not cost-effective because I can rent a 40" C-stand with 2 heads, an arm, and a sandbag for $6, but I have yet to find a rental house in DFW that would rent out the DP4 or my selection of lenses or my specific battery system or my G&E grab bag of goodies...those are the things I bought knowing I would use them on damn near every shoot, and they paid for themselves quickly.
 
I may be way off, but in todays world, a good amount of dp's are the camera operator. With digital tech, it makes it easier to shoot with smaller crews and less budget, therefore you see a lot of crews with a dp operating, A first Ac, and or dolly grip. We combined our script super and slate together as we don't need a loader. So thats less one more crew. Plus the two mesh well together.

Seeing as you don't want to operate a cam, you may find it more difficult to find work, unless you have some good connections, and have proven yourself.

As far as buying grip gear, I wouldn't bother unless you plan on starting some kind of production company, which doesn't sound like thats what you want to do. I would bank it, use it wisely, as were heading for a depression.
 
The old days of being a DP and not operating yourself at first are kind of over. Without the pedigree of a stellar reel and contacts be working on productions that can have a dedicated operator, its difficult. You need to operate yourself at first. You don't need to own gear, but you will find a lot of resistance to lowbudget productions hiring an operator. Personally I LOVE operating my shot. But the only jobs I've ever done where I had an operator were free "personal" projects where crew donates time.
 
The big thing is, I am still a college student. Whenever we shoot anything, whether it would be for film production class, or for my own personal stuff, its usually not shot day after day, but instead over a longer period of time. Therefore, having to rent is going to be expensive considering the closest rental house is nearly 2hrs away. And we will not be using the equipment each day, but like every other day or so.

And the biggest scenario is the money. I do shoot a lot of personal stuff, and in the long run, its better for me to have my own and not have to rent. I personally hate renting as there is no way to make money back on the rentals unless if you are getting paid a fair bit. I don't often have that ability to get paid my job and for rentals each time.

I understand what you mean, and I support it, however, its just not convenient to rent when we dont shoot on a daily basis and the rental house is at least 2hrs away. So, Im wondering if I should save up to get camera gear.
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Jordan Scott Price said:
You either need everything or nothing :)
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Thats the thing.

maranfilms said:
I may be way off, but in todays world, a good amount of dp's are the camera operator.
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And thats another point.

I am very good at being a camera operator, but its not my preferred choice. I can do it if needed, and sure I may still apply for a job, but when equipment is provided. Its just that for some shoots, I rarely see when all equipment is provided for me. I mostly see "Cam Operator/DP with own equipment"

I do own a thing or two for my camera, but thats because I did my own shoots as a camera op. I was basically a one-man crew. So, I had to own something. Since DPing was really my thing, I purchased lights and lighting accessories, and forgot about the camera equipment.

*The OTHER concern I have is, some gear that I should consider purchasing would have to be DSLR specific, as I own a DSLR and thats what I shoot on. So, thats an additional investment in DSLR equipment, but I may end up using another camera in the future as new cameras are always coming out?
 
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I think he's saying he would want to operate if it's an underwater shoot? Although I may have misunderstood myself.
 
If you can't make money back on your rentals you shouldn't be renting. I own two cameras, two tripods, three lights and a basic audio kit with only a cheap shotgun and a handful of grip equipment. I always make my money back. Using that equipment I can create a great demo reel, shoot things at low budget and clients like that not everything has to be rented every time. Even if you aren't renting the client is renting from you, so your business plan needs some work if that's the problem.

If you think that purchasing will be more cost effective than renting for your projects because they don't happen all at once, you clearly are looking at purchasing things that aren't on the high end anyway. Cheap stuff can be used to supplement your kit, but really think if you want to be using it for your professional work or not.
 
Jordan Scott Price said:
You either need everything or nothing :)
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I think you're right in that it's different for your specific situation, but you can totally just own 1 or 2 hot commodity items. Buy an Arri 1200 par, or a 4x4 kino flo...your friends will always be renting it from you and you'll rent it to every production you work on.
 
RyanT said:
I think you're right in that it's different for your specific situation, but you can totally just own 1 or 2 hot commodity items. Buy an Arri 1200 par, or a 4x4 kino flo...your friends will always be renting it from you and you'll rent it to every production you work on.
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This is true.

I think RPO said it best (at least, I think it was him) about a year ago in the Cinematography forum - "The great Hollywood DP's only need a light meter on set. But to get to the point where you only need a light meter, you have to own everything else first."

I'm finding that statement to be truer every day - after I bought a camera, then lenses, then support gear, then lights, then assorted grippery...I'm about to drop a grand on hard cases alone.

Light meters suck anyways! :)
 
If you are still a student, and want to become a DP, at this time, having a camera, and being able to operate is the requisite skills, IMHO. When first coming up, he with the camera is the DP. If you have a DSLR, I would suggest not buying DSLR specific gear to trick it out. When I transitioned from SD to HD, I went the DSLR route, but I just could not bring myself to spending a lot of cash for DSLR specif gear. I would suggest getting a very good tripod and a good set of lenses that will be usable across a host of possible future camera systems. For me, that was investing in vintage Nikkor lenses and getting a Miller fluid head and sticks (Used). The only thing I bought that was DSLR specific was a Hoodman Loupe.

Also, as a student, and wanting to come up, having a camera and operating is going to be the ticket to being a DP. On low budget gigs, if you bring the lights, and some body else brings the camera gear and operates. then you are going to get credit as gaffer, and the guy who brought the camera and operates is going to get the credit as DP. If you have a camera and lights, it is still going to be tough to talk low budget producers into kicking in for an operator. Also, at the low budget level, do you really want your reputation as a DP left up to the skills of a low budget operator that will work for the little money that a low budget film will have to offer?
 
Assuming that this is indeed something you want to do (which based on your potentially limited experience you might not be 100% sure) indeed invest in camera and lighting gear. That said it's a bit complicated question as we are talking about investing about $30k in lights and 20-30k in camera. If i were you i would invest in basic lighting kit (about $2-3K) and basic camera package (about 3K) and go from there.
 
I own lighting gear, but I wanted to get more. Some 1.2K HMI's and some Kino's.
Becoming a DP and an underwater camera operator IS what I want to do.

If I'd be going with camera gear, I'd might as well sell my dslr and save up for the new RED camera.. Which I just blanked out on the name. Scarlet? That way its not dslr specific and this gear will work on other cameras too.

Light meters suck?
Haha. NO! :|
I just spend $650 on a new Cine lightmeter a few weeks ago. Love it, will always use it, as I mostly shoot 16mm film now.
 
Man, there are whole RED ONE MX KITS going for like $10k. If you could pinch some pennies and try to hold out a bit longer, you might be able to snag yourself a really, sweet deal. RED ONE is still gorgeous - people are crazy for selling their kits so cheap.

Kegan
 
DDirector said:
Nevermind... I thought it would still be like $8K for a whole set, but I guess not. So, DSLR it is still.
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I think Red is doomed... Having 'followed' the various systems at a distance, thinking that they would come out with a 'real' low cost solution... only to see most
of the offerings in the 'high end' bracket... for my evaluation of 'high end'...

I don't think you will see anything to compete with the Canons, and if Panasonic still is in the game the GH series...

At near 10K... I would start thinking about renting... and at that point, why not rent something 'big'...

In my 'still' life, while the Wife has a film film Hasselblad, we have never, ever contemplated buying a digital back for it, and not even remotely thought about buying the digital offering. The Nikons and formerly the Fuji S2-5 still cameras were sufficiently good to do what we wanted...

I suspect moving picture capture devices will go somewhat the same way.
 
Kegan said:
Man, there are whole RED ONE MX KITS going for like $10k. If you could pinch some pennies and try to hold out a bit longer, you might be able to snag yourself a really, sweet deal. RED ONE is still gorgeous - people are crazy for selling their kits so cheap.
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Red One MX is still an incredibly viable camera system. If you can snag one for $10k, I'd jump on that in a heartbeat.

j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
I think Red is doomed... Having 'followed' the various systems at a distance, thinking that they would come out with a 'real' low cost solution... only to see most
of the offerings in the 'high end' bracket... for my evaluation of 'high end'...
Click to expand...

Yeah, those thirty Epic purchases for films like The Amazing Spider-Man and The Hobbit really don't help the bottom line, do they?
 
I read somewhere that the Cohen brothers chose Roger Deakins ASC BSC to be their DP, partly because he liked to do his own camera operation.
And I'm pretty sure I read that Haskell Wexler ASC would sometimes use his own camera, an Eclair Cameflex, on productions.

- Ken
 
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