I will never buy another Cinevate product…
- Thread starter Mike@AF
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Dennis Wood
DVXuser Sponsor
First of all thanks to Bob G. for sending me a heads up on this thread. Mike, Hubert no longer works at Cinevate, however I've seen that Jeremy has been corresponding with you. I've asked the entire team to review this thread to ensure that the response here is appropriate. I'm asking the team to do this despite this very unusual post and the fact that you've used words to describe me personally as "deceptive". It's not in my nature personally to threaten, conceal or mask any issues, public or otherwise. For that reason, (although we're sponsors here) I'm not asking to have this thread removed, nor will I ask you to remove anything you've posted. Anyone who knows us, (feel free to search my old posts here) and me personally knows that we're always working to create, refine and professionally support our products. Customer service is something that is very important to me. Our business code of ethics dictates that we will not share any of your personal information, emails or correspondence online, however I will add a few quick comments.
One thing that I will respond to right away is this: Our carbon rails carry a lifetime warranty, and measure 14.97mm to just under 15.00mm (depending on batch) We've sold many thousands of them with zero complaints for nearly 4 years now. They are pultruded solid carbon fiber specifically to hold these very tight tolerances.
Additionally, I consider an unhappy customer an opportunity for us to review, reflect and if necessary correct. Your actions here online for most would obviate any apology, or response but the fact that you've taken the time and effort to post the information is not lost on me personally. While my team reviews the situation and comes up with an appropriate solution, let me offer up an apology for what has clearly been an unpleasant experience for you.
One thing that I will respond to right away is this: Our carbon rails carry a lifetime warranty, and measure 14.97mm to just under 15.00mm (depending on batch) We've sold many thousands of them with zero complaints for nearly 4 years now. They are pultruded solid carbon fiber specifically to hold these very tight tolerances.
Additionally, I consider an unhappy customer an opportunity for us to review, reflect and if necessary correct. Your actions here online for most would obviate any apology, or response but the fact that you've taken the time and effort to post the information is not lost on me personally. While my team reviews the situation and comes up with an appropriate solution, let me offer up an apology for what has clearly been an unpleasant experience for you.
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Dennis, thank you for responding and apologizing publicly. For the record, I never said you personally were deceptive. I was referring to Cinevate and its practices with the Festivus sale, which I have described in detail in my original post. I understand how you could take that personally as it's your company, however it was not meant to say any individual person is deceptive. That said, I don't know any other way to describe the situation with the Festivus sale pricing at that time and the fact that when the issue was brought up nothing was done to fix it. If it was a mistake and fixed that's fine, but it was never fixed. It just comes across as dishonest, saying it's on sale when it really isn't.
Yes, I have been corresponding with Jeremy. On 12/22/11 (at night, Cinevate was likely closed) I sent another email to Jeremy explaining that the screw for the matte box still had not arrived. He responded the next morning on 12/23/11 with "I will rush you out the screw via FedEx Express. I am not certain as to why you never received the original one, but I will get a new one out the door today." It still has not arrived, though I understand it's coming from Canada and it was during the holidays. Still, it has been almost 2 months now since I initially contacted Cinevate.
I understand what you are saying about the carbon rods, however as I explained before I used a very precise set of calibers and could not get any of the carbon rods (I had 4 of them here) to measure less than 15mm, and at the ends they measured more. I don't know how you measure you rods. Maybe your measurements are before the coating goes on. I don't know.
I will say between my initial post here and now I have sold one of my Cinevate shoulder pad/mounts and a set of Uno Grips to someone who happened to have the newer Proteus rails and quick release system that he bought 3 months ago. I asked him if I could try putting some of my 15mm accessories on his rods and he allowed me to. His rods had the same issue. His quick release plate would also not tighten down well enough or easy enough on my Zacuto 15mm rods. Needless to say, he was surprised and a little concerned.
Thank you again for responding.
Yes, I have been corresponding with Jeremy. On 12/22/11 (at night, Cinevate was likely closed) I sent another email to Jeremy explaining that the screw for the matte box still had not arrived. He responded the next morning on 12/23/11 with "I will rush you out the screw via FedEx Express. I am not certain as to why you never received the original one, but I will get a new one out the door today." It still has not arrived, though I understand it's coming from Canada and it was during the holidays. Still, it has been almost 2 months now since I initially contacted Cinevate.
I understand what you are saying about the carbon rods, however as I explained before I used a very precise set of calibers and could not get any of the carbon rods (I had 4 of them here) to measure less than 15mm, and at the ends they measured more. I don't know how you measure you rods. Maybe your measurements are before the coating goes on. I don't know.
I will say between my initial post here and now I have sold one of my Cinevate shoulder pad/mounts and a set of Uno Grips to someone who happened to have the newer Proteus rails and quick release system that he bought 3 months ago. I asked him if I could try putting some of my 15mm accessories on his rods and he allowed me to. His rods had the same issue. His quick release plate would also not tighten down well enough or easy enough on my Zacuto 15mm rods. Needless to say, he was surprised and a little concerned.
Thank you again for responding.
Cinevate responded after it got blown up on this thread. They should have taken care of you long before this thread started.
Kit Hannah
Veteran
True, but you have to realize that all companies make mistakes, and Cinevate is obviously owning up to it. The OWNER is personally making sure it gets handled and I hope that Mike will post the results of the final outcome for all to see. As a company, as you grow, you sometimes cannot help and control everything that is happening at all times. That's why you rely on good employees. I'm not defending Cinevate for their actions nor trying to make excuses for them, but at least they're trying to rectify the situation.
Then don't. I don't own any Cinevate products either, but there's no reason to add insult to injury here. Cinevate seems to have some pretty nice products and most of their products seem to be on par price wise with other comparable industry companies. Some even cheaper and better quality. I have used a few of their products on jobs in the past and I can't complain about the quality, worked great for what it was needed for.
Personally, I just don't like to see someone jumping on the bandwagon and making blanket statements about a company that they know little or nothing about. Mike had some valid arguments, and he backed it up with the information he had first hand. Dennis is (hopefully) getting the situation reolved in a way that Mike will be happy with. No reason to compound anything.
cinevateluke
Active member
Mike, the entire Cinevate staff would like to offer an apology for your experience. Cinevate is a small close-knit family, who every day works hard to ensure that each and every customer receives a very high level of customer service and support. In your case we failed and for this we are sorry.
It is disheartening to all the Cinevate team members to read of your experience. It is never our intention to be deceptive in our practices. We have determined that your festivus sale experience was a result of human error and miscommunication within our team, which we never properly addressed or resolved.
Regrettably we’ve lost you as a customer however we thank you for your feedback. We want to assure you that we will use the knowledge of your experience to help us better serve Cinevate’s customers in the future.
Also, our man Jeremy will continue to be in contact with you to resolve your matte box / flag issue.
Our sincerest apologies from:
Jeremy, Dennis, Peter, Chris, Luke, Dan, Sarah, Angela, Sarah, Frank, Trevor, Pietro and Jon.
It is disheartening to all the Cinevate team members to read of your experience. It is never our intention to be deceptive in our practices. We have determined that your festivus sale experience was a result of human error and miscommunication within our team, which we never properly addressed or resolved.
Regrettably we’ve lost you as a customer however we thank you for your feedback. We want to assure you that we will use the knowledge of your experience to help us better serve Cinevate’s customers in the future.
Also, our man Jeremy will continue to be in contact with you to resolve your matte box / flag issue.
Our sincerest apologies from:
Jeremy, Dennis, Peter, Chris, Luke, Dan, Sarah, Angela, Sarah, Frank, Trevor, Pietro and Jon.
Did you read what this guy went through? He posted his review on here to do 2 things!!! which is clearly alright. to finally get some quality feedback from cinevate and to help us fellow dvxusers.
Im very happy for you that your transaction with cinevate went sooo well that youve become buddy buddies with them. and hence why you are angry with me.
they should give him some free parts that he can use for all he's been through
bgundu
Veteran
I too have become friends with Dennis over the years but that's because I have been using their products for a long time and have been satisfied. I have seen them grow from a company that was a couple of guys in a garage that dabbled on their spare time to what you see today. They have been experiencing some growing pains but you have to realize that there are countless customers that are very happy. That doest excuse what happened in this case, but i can assure you that this incident is very rare for them. Perhaps their conversation is continuing offline, who knows.... not everything needs to said in a public forum.
Jason Ramsey
Admin
Dude... stop trolling the thread. it's got nothing to do with you. read and learn, make your point, and move on. You already said, you've never even been a customer, never will be. go troll somewhere else if you have nothing productive to add to this discussion that has nothing to do with you. No reason for you (hiding behind an anonymous username) to come in here over and over with the same comments. You stated your point. You don't like them. You said it. everyone heard it. Now move on, and stop harping.
Cinevate are good people. If they weren't, they wouldn't be sponsors here. Dennis is a hard working son of a gun, and he's grown a successful business by having historically great support for his customers, ... And, he's also donated probably 10's of thousands of dollars in prizes to filmmakers right here on dvxuser over the last few years, and he's done it completely separate from the site sponsorship that they also pay for. They do it for the little extra promotion they get, and b/c (unlike the evil villain you keep wanting to paint someone you don't even know out to be) he likes to support the members of this community and their creative endeavors, and not just be a banner in the corner.
Sucks Mike had a s**tty experience. But, it has nothing to do with you, so stop trolling in this thread, trying to make them out to be the worst thing ever. There are plenty of people who have bought, and continue to buy their products, and plenty of raving reviews of their products and services around the net. s**t happens. People make mistakes. And, it's usually only the bad things that get posted... complete with violating someone's privacy by posting up personal communications on a public space... which, is not very cool (in most circumstances) for a number of reasons I won't elaborate on here. I could only imagine the s**t some people who have passed through dvxuser's walls would catch if I went and posted some of the vile, nasty, hateful s**t I've had emailed/pm'd to me onto their facebook walls where their friends and co-workers can see it. Or, if someone (not saying you did this mike) decided to selectively or creatively assemble personal communications and post them on a public space, which might misrepresent things, but would then be taken as gospel.
DVXuser doesn't censor members for the benefit of our sponsors, so long as members are respectful/professional in their reviews. And, we don't let sponsors dictate the content of the boards here, either. But, we will remove it if it doesn't meet that very basic requirement of acting like a grown up. And, I personally don't find it very ethical to post personal communications on a public space. Something we discourage, unless there is a pressing need to do so, and it is approved by dvxuser before-hand. Snippets, is one thing. Entire emails complete with people's names, is just not cool imo. Something that could be easily abused, and/or used to wrongfully damage people (again, I am not saying that is what happened here), given how emotionally people tend to react on the internet.
peace.
Apology accepted. Thank you.
My reason for posting the emails was in order to show whoever might read this thread that I wasn't just being over-sensitive or expecting too much. I think it's one thing to hear someone's brief story about a bad experience and another to actually get the inside look. I don't think anyone could deny that it was a terrible experience after reading the emails, whereas some could say no big deal if I hadn't posted them.
Also, this was not just one incident of a bad experience. The first incident was with the initial purchase of everything with the "sale" pricing. At least 3 people knew about the "sale" pricing. Then there was the ordeal of returning/exchanging items in the order that did not work. Then the third incident was a year later with a different person about a different issue. So it's not just one isolated incident that I've experienced and am letting others know about.
Again, I haven't done this to get anything out of Cinevate or anyone else. It is a warning to others. I haven't requested money, a return, or exchange. Just for my faulty matte box to work properly.
Today Jeremy from Cinevate sent me a personal email apologizing for my experience. They have shipped me a new top flag hinge assembly for my matte box that I hope will solve the problem with the top flag falling.
Jason, I was not aware that posting emails was against DVXuser rules and for that I apologize. Personally, I don't think it's a breach of privacy as there is no personal information about anyone given in any of the emails. However, as I don't want to be breaking the rules of the community I enjoy being a participant in I will remove the emails from my original post since I did not request permission to post them beforehand.
Thank you all for understanding and for your empathy. For anyone else that does purchase gear from Cinevate or any other company, hopefully you will not have to go through what I have.
Also, this was not just one incident of a bad experience. The first incident was with the initial purchase of everything with the "sale" pricing. At least 3 people knew about the "sale" pricing. Then there was the ordeal of returning/exchanging items in the order that did not work. Then the third incident was a year later with a different person about a different issue. So it's not just one isolated incident that I've experienced and am letting others know about.
Again, I haven't done this to get anything out of Cinevate or anyone else. It is a warning to others. I haven't requested money, a return, or exchange. Just for my faulty matte box to work properly.
Today Jeremy from Cinevate sent me a personal email apologizing for my experience. They have shipped me a new top flag hinge assembly for my matte box that I hope will solve the problem with the top flag falling.
Jason, I was not aware that posting emails was against DVXuser rules and for that I apologize. Personally, I don't think it's a breach of privacy as there is no personal information about anyone given in any of the emails. However, as I don't want to be breaking the rules of the community I enjoy being a participant in I will remove the emails from my original post since I did not request permission to post them beforehand.
Thank you all for understanding and for your empathy. For anyone else that does purchase gear from Cinevate or any other company, hopefully you will not have to go through what I have.
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Thanks Mike. I think you posting the emails was valid. You took a risk doing so in order to help the community, and this is much appreciated from my perspective. Its also good to see Cinevate coming up and appologise. The Festivus part is something that i would like explained by Cinevate. I'm also a costumer, happy with my purchases, had one or 2 small issues but they were quickly resolved and had good costumer service from them. However, in your case, something certainly went wrong and you did well to share it here. If more complaints were done in the thorough way you did, many, many things would improve in the costumer/supplier relationship everywhere. This is one of those cases where the internet and the community, global aspect of it truly worked- and, I hope, for both parties!
Update for anyone who reads this thread. Today I finally got the part for the matte box and it appears to have solved the problem with the top flag hinge loosening and letting the flag tilt down on its own. Cinevate also sent me 2 new top flags (one of each size) for some reason. I don't know why, but oh well.
I will say this. Today is 61 says from when I first contacted Cinevate about the matte box issue. In my opinion that's way too long to get the issue taken care of, and I feel it only got taken care of by this time because of this thread. When the part was shipped I received a FedEx tracking number in my email the day Cinevate finally responded here, which I hadn't the other 2 times I was told it was sent to me. Maybe they sent it via regular postal mail without tracking and it just got lost (twice). I don't know. This part and the flags, which are probably fairly inexpensive, were sent signature required. I work in production and am on set at least 12 hours a day, so I was unable to be home to sign for it. Fortunately the 3rd and last day for attempted delivery ended up being on my day off. However, I still had to stay home almost all day to wait for it... on my day off. Not exactly convenient. I don't see why a signature needed to be required for such an inexpensive package when FedEx will cover $100 automatically and charge a very small fee for additional coverage, and if it's more than $500 value they require a signature anyway. FedEx also charges a small fee when a signature is requested by the shipper, so actually Cinevate would be better off just paying the small value fee for packages with a value less than $500 and then FedEx will require a signature when the value is over $500. That makes things easier for their customers. Cinevate requiring a signature on this became another inconvenience.
Anyway, I hope this issue is done. The Titan matte box is my last remaining Cinevate product and now the top flag hinge works properly. If anyone is interested in purchasing it from me let me know. It's the version with the top rod clamps. Top hinge is the new design that actually works and it has 2 sets of flags (2 sizes). I also replaced the thumbscrews with the larger ones (4 total for top and bottom clamps) that are easier to tighten onto rods.
I will say this. Today is 61 says from when I first contacted Cinevate about the matte box issue. In my opinion that's way too long to get the issue taken care of, and I feel it only got taken care of by this time because of this thread. When the part was shipped I received a FedEx tracking number in my email the day Cinevate finally responded here, which I hadn't the other 2 times I was told it was sent to me. Maybe they sent it via regular postal mail without tracking and it just got lost (twice). I don't know. This part and the flags, which are probably fairly inexpensive, were sent signature required. I work in production and am on set at least 12 hours a day, so I was unable to be home to sign for it. Fortunately the 3rd and last day for attempted delivery ended up being on my day off. However, I still had to stay home almost all day to wait for it... on my day off. Not exactly convenient. I don't see why a signature needed to be required for such an inexpensive package when FedEx will cover $100 automatically and charge a very small fee for additional coverage, and if it's more than $500 value they require a signature anyway. FedEx also charges a small fee when a signature is requested by the shipper, so actually Cinevate would be better off just paying the small value fee for packages with a value less than $500 and then FedEx will require a signature when the value is over $500. That makes things easier for their customers. Cinevate requiring a signature on this became another inconvenience.
Anyway, I hope this issue is done. The Titan matte box is my last remaining Cinevate product and now the top flag hinge works properly. If anyone is interested in purchasing it from me let me know. It's the version with the top rod clamps. Top hinge is the new design that actually works and it has 2 sets of flags (2 sizes). I also replaced the thumbscrews with the larger ones (4 total for top and bottom clamps) that are easier to tighten onto rods.
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as far as the signature required? my guess is that Cinevate wanted to make ***absolutely sure*** that you got the parts with no chance of a mess up. i dont see anything wrong with that especially after this thread. if Fedex would have left it on your steps and then got ripped off by some passer by then who's fault is it. im always home to accept deliveries to avoid problems.
glad you got your stuff worked out and good for Cinevate accomodate you with appropriate customer service.
david
glad you got your stuff worked out and good for Cinevate accomodate you with appropriate customer service.
david
Being that they sent me a tracking number and I was getting email notifications I would have known it was delivered and if it was stolen off the porch (which has never happened) there would be no reason for me to blame Cinevate or FedEx. It's tracked so all would know if it was delivered or not and if it was stolen FedEx would still cover it for the declared value, even up to $100 if no value was declared. So, like I said, there was no reason to require a signature when FedEx includes tracking with all shipments. So the "absolutely sure" part is a given regardless of signature or not.
And I would not call it "accommodate" or "appropriate" customer service. It took 2 months to get the issue resolved. If anything I accommodated them by waiting so long.
And I would not call it "accommodate" or "appropriate" customer service. It took 2 months to get the issue resolved. If anything I accommodated them by waiting so long.
i would never look forward to trying to recover money from Fedex or UPS or US mail if it can be helped. i was there once and it was no fun. far too much hassle.
...and yes, i understand it took 2 months to get the issue resolved and that you probably dont plan on being a customer of Cinevate in your future and honestly...who could blame you. still from an objective POV (me, not having gone thru your mess)...they did finally fix it. as they say...better late than never? i give them some credit...objectively.
im sure this thread cost them some sales from what ive read here. maybe they have learned how small the world is on the "web" and will make it a point to not let something like your case get out of control in the future. id like to think so.
david
...and yes, i understand it took 2 months to get the issue resolved and that you probably dont plan on being a customer of Cinevate in your future and honestly...who could blame you. still from an objective POV (me, not having gone thru your mess)...they did finally fix it. as they say...better late than never? i give them some credit...objectively.
im sure this thread cost them some sales from what ive read here. maybe they have learned how small the world is on the "web" and will make it a point to not let something like your case get out of control in the future. id like to think so.
david
Here's the thing that's not being understood, and maybe I know this because I've been on both sides of the fence, as the customer as everyone knows, but I have also worked in sales and customer service and as a manager of both. And my customers have ranged from a small $10 sale all the way to larger $100k+ sales. Good customer service is not about doing what you're supposed to do. It's about doing what's unexpected and making it a convenience for the customer.
Requiring a signature on a package that's probably worth no more than $20 to Cinevate is utterly ridiculous. And this thread has no bearing on that. Whether they require a signature or not, there's a tracking number and requiring a signature doesn't guarantee that it reaches my door. It could still get lost on the way here. It's an inconvenience to any customer to have to make sure they are home all day long just to sign for a $20 package. That's poor customer service because it makes the customer do more work than they should have to.
If the package was stolen, so what. Call FedEx, file a claim, and it's taken care of. Cinevate would have been credited on their FedEx bill within 2 billing cycles. I've done enough shipping and receiving over the years to know it's that easy and not a big deal. And I'm sure Cinevate does enough shipping with FedEx that it's probably even easier than that for them.
If there needs to be an inconvenience it should be the business, not the customer, that has to deal with it. Cinevate made me deal with it, over a $20 package. That's poor customer service.
Requiring a signature on a package that's probably worth no more than $20 to Cinevate is utterly ridiculous. And this thread has no bearing on that. Whether they require a signature or not, there's a tracking number and requiring a signature doesn't guarantee that it reaches my door. It could still get lost on the way here. It's an inconvenience to any customer to have to make sure they are home all day long just to sign for a $20 package. That's poor customer service because it makes the customer do more work than they should have to.
If the package was stolen, so what. Call FedEx, file a claim, and it's taken care of. Cinevate would have been credited on their FedEx bill within 2 billing cycles. I've done enough shipping and receiving over the years to know it's that easy and not a big deal. And I'm sure Cinevate does enough shipping with FedEx that it's probably even easier than that for them.
If there needs to be an inconvenience it should be the business, not the customer, that has to deal with it. Cinevate made me deal with it, over a $20 package. That's poor customer service.
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Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
I don't know, I don't see the fault in them putting down for a signature. I mean, my first guess was that they just wanted to make sure you got it to keep the driver from leaving it. Ultimately the best thing would have been to discuss shipping and agree on what the best plan was. I do this ALL the time with my big purchases. I guess I don't try and guess their motivation but ask. Sometimes you are right, it is policy with some companies and it becomes a pain for me if I need to do something different. I've had companies that will not ship to anything but the billing address even if I have another address on file. But on the other hand, if you NEED the part, getting it stolen can be worse because then you are scrambling to find another solution while awaiting claims and such.
But I will say this, I didn't expect my AF100 to be left on my door step all day. I expected a signature and I should have requested it.
I've never dealt with Cinevate on a product. I talked with them awhile back for a sponsorship for our video productions and I will say, their correspondances with me were very very respectful, timely, and in depth. While they didn't sponsor us for what we were looking for, the fact they took the time to actually explain about their philosophies and such always left a good impression on me. Granted, this hardly means anything relative to actual company practice, sometimes things just go bad.
It's unfortunate you had such a bad experience. While no one ever wants it to get to this point, I am glad to see them responding here. Hopefully, in the future, for others, this will be an exception.
But I will say this, I didn't expect my AF100 to be left on my door step all day. I expected a signature and I should have requested it.
I've never dealt with Cinevate on a product. I talked with them awhile back for a sponsorship for our video productions and I will say, their correspondances with me were very very respectful, timely, and in depth. While they didn't sponsor us for what we were looking for, the fact they took the time to actually explain about their philosophies and such always left a good impression on me. Granted, this hardly means anything relative to actual company practice, sometimes things just go bad.
It's unfortunate you had such a bad experience. While no one ever wants it to get to this point, I am glad to see them responding here. Hopefully, in the future, for others, this will be an exception.
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