I wanted the D5300 but the 70D makes more sense!
- Thread starter Ken1212
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BobbyMurcerFan
Well-known member
Also, why not check out diopters?
Too many options, the question which of the many economic options gives the best results? Also, would't a macro rail be helpful even with a diopter specially for focus stacking?
I forgot all about diopters. My main issue with those is that they tend to give you softer images, especially toward the corners. They're designed to work on many lenses, so they just have to get the optics close, whereas a macro lens has to have everything perfect. As far as focus stacking, you only need 2 way (front/back), you don't need (or want) right to left movement...or at least I wouldn't. Perhaps if you were photographing something very large, but close, then you'd need a 4-way rail, but I suspect those times are going to be few and far between. The way I do my stacking is just to move the focus on my lens the tiniest amount to get a bit more of the target into focus. I take "sections" of the target and then put them all together in photoshop. For example, on my morning dew photo that was stacked, I started at the top of the grass and then moved my focus down through the grass a millimeter or two at a time, which allowed me to take about 18 separate pictures that were later stacked in PS, each picture had a slightly different depth of the grass in focus. I did this with a tripod, not macro rails, although it probably would have been easier with rails, I just don't have any.
Bellows are another option (since we're discussing other macro methods again). They are a piece of fabric (or cardboard) that looks like an accordion, mounted on a set of rails. You attach your lens to the front and your camera to the back. It works on the same principle as extension tubes, the further you move your lens from the camera, the more magnification you can get. People have gotten truly extraordinary results like this, but it's quite difficult and you have to be careful with the bellows so that they don't crack or break, once light gets in, they're useless.
This guy uses bellows and his results speak for themselves: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/opoterser
And here's a video by the same guy, where he shows his camera setup with the bellows, flash and other accessories: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqRn3at0H60 Again, his results speak for themselves. Actually, in that video, he's using a set of extension tubes, macro reversing ring and a 28mm prime turned around backwards (a mix of three techniques). I've also seen him shoot with bellows too, though. To get that kind of magnification, you have GOT to mix techniques, he does very, very high magnification. You won't get images like his from anything other than mixed techniques or the canon 65mm MPE and it's 5:1 magnification. Although I suspect he may be even higher than 5:1 with his current setup. The problem with what he's using is that he has to get extremely close to his subject, close enough to scare most things away. And you can see his depth of field in the video...he usually only has the eyes of those tiny creatures in focus and nothing else, so stacking is mandatory when you are working with THAT small of DoF.
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True, but extension tubes have an advantage...your lens and your camera can still communicate (with the better extension tubes). If you go for the cheaper extension tubes, you will lose things like aperture control, metering, and autofocus, but the more expensive tubes allow your camera and lens to communicate. Although I have found that autofocus is still very hit-or-miss with extension tubes because it's using the lens in a way that it wasn't designed to be used. I started out with "dumb" tubes, then moved up to the ones that allowed communication.
The advantage of bellows is that your lens can be moved farther from your sensor than with extension tubes. Samuel is 100% correct though, they work on the same principle.
Thanks for sharing. How about this http://www.ebay.com/itm/321238464241?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
It has the AF feature, I can also get a reversal ring for extreme closeups
I don't know what brand those are, so I can't tell you if they'd work properly, but that's extension tubes. Kenko is a popular brand, they have Kenko in the name of the listing, but I'm not sure if those are kenko or not because Kenkos are usually about 2x that price. I don't know if you're in the USA or not, but I buy most of my stuff from B&H, they have reasonable prices and there are always reviews I can read to know exactly what I'm getting (plus there's an easy return policy if it's not what I want). I really don't use ebay that much. I doubt you'll have any issues with the ones listed above though, as extension tubes are pretty simple devices...no optics or anything inside, they're just basically a sectioned tube that fits your camera and allows you to mount your lenses. The more sections you add, the higher your magnification (it moves your lens farther from your sensor).
Most of my pro equipment comes from B&H, in fact they sent me an e-mail earlier today that my 70D shipped today. I am initially interested in macro as an occasional hobby, If I see myself getting into it more I can latter invest more money.
I thought macro might be a passing phase too, until I tried it. There's this whole other world all around us that we NEVER see because it's too tiny or insignificant. There is ALWAYS something new or interesting to photograph/video in the macro world. I would be highly surprised if you didn't get really into it.
I thought macro might be a passing phase too, until I tried it. There's this whole other world all around us that we NEVER see because it's too tiny or insignificant. There is ALWAYS something new or interesting to photograph/video in the macro world. I would be highly surprised if you didn't get really into it.
Is video much harder to focus.
It is EXTREMELY hard to focus in macro range. You will need a sturdy tripod and a subject that doesn't move much, or focus will be a real problem. I'm not sure how your 70D will do in the macro range as it's far more demanding than regular video focusing. The problem is your depth of field shrinks the closer you get to something. So you might have 1/10th of an inch depth of field if your subject is very tiny and you are very close. With practice, I've gotten better at manually focusing, but I'm still nowhere near proficient at focusing in the macro range for video. I'm not sure if that is even possible for a human to do, really. When you get your 70D, please upload some videos of it focusing in macro range, if it can do that reasonably well, I might buy one too.
With photography, it's a bit easier, since you only need 1 frame, but trying to get 24, 30 or 60 frames/sec in focus is a major challenge. Autofocus on my D5200 or D7100 simply won't cut it. I tried to see if it would focus in macro range a month or so ago and I had about 90% blurry footage. However, the further I moved away from the subject, the easier it was for the camera to focus...although this kind of defeats the purpose of macro. If you don't mind going with 720p video, you MIGHT be able to crop your 1080p video, but I'm not sure how much quality you'd lose. I guess the further you cropped in, the more quality you'd lose, much like with a photograph.
One way to make it easier for your camera (and you) is to keep your subject on the same plane. If it's not moving toward/away from the camera, you really won't have any issues with focus. Unfortunately, it's rare that you will find something that is willing to stay a precise distance from your sensor at all times.
It is EXTREMELY hard to focus in macro range. You will need a sturdy tripod and a subject that doesn't move much, or focus will be a real problem. I'm not sure how your 70D will do in the macro range as it's far more demanding than regular video focusing. The problem is your depth of field shrinks the closer you get to something. So you might have 1/10th of an inch depth of field if your subject is very tiny and you are very close. With practice, I've gotten better at manually focusing, but I'm still nowhere near proficient at focusing in the macro range for video. I'm not sure if that is even possible for a human to do, really. When you get your 70D, please upload some videos of it focusing in macro range, if it can do that reasonably well, I might buy one too.
With photography, it's a bit easier, since you only need 1 frame, but trying to get 24, 30 or 60 frames/sec in focus is a major challenge. Autofocus on my D5200 or D7100 simply won't cut it. I tried to see if it would focus in macro range a month or so ago and I had about 90% blurry footage. However, the further I moved away from the subject, the easier it was for the camera to focus...although this kind of defeats the purpose of macro. If you don't mind going with 720p video, you MIGHT be able to crop your 1080p video, but I'm not sure how much quality you'd lose. I guess the further you cropped in, the more quality you'd lose, much like with a photograph.
One way to make it easier for your camera (and you) is to keep your subject on the same plane. If it's not moving toward/away from the camera, you really won't have any issues with focus. Unfortunately, it's rare that you will find something that is willing to stay a precise distance from your sensor at all times.
The 70D is in route and should get it later this week. I read several people having problems with stacking tubes and AF, many report problems once they stack a second extension. I think my best bet is to initially use a macro filter on the 18-135mm stm lens which has very minimal focusing noise. If it does good and I find myself wanting to get into it more then it will be best to buy a macro lens for the 70D. Other wise I can just use the tubes on my D5100.
B&H has a special on the D5300 with 18-140mm lens for $1097 that's $300 off.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...iday-Mon-A-_-131118-_-Body_Retail_Nikon-D5300
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...iday-Mon-A-_-131118-_-Body_Retail_Nikon-D5300
So I received my 70D, I had to spend a little time to learn the canon menu but first impression is waw, both for video and photo are crisp and the auto focus touch screen is amazing. The first thing I did is sell my D3100 there is no need for it. (so far I sold D3100 and D90) I am going to keep the D5100 as I have bought several Nikon lenses and accessories such as flashes etc. I am going to do some tests later this week to see how bad is moire and get a feeling for low light and ISO limit. I went ahead and also ordered an auto focus macro tube as I feel this will be a great camera for Macro based on my initial tests with the auto focus.
Nice. I'd love to see some autofocus tests when you get time, as I'm curious if it's really as amazing as the reviews say it is. I'd also be curious how it works with the macro tubes, when you get them, so please keep me posted.
Have fun with the new camera.
Nice. I'd love to see some autofocus tests when you get time, as I'm curious if it's really as amazing as the reviews say it is. I'd also be curious how it works with the macro tubes, when you get them, so please keep me posted.
Have fun with the new camera.
I should get the extension tube in a week or so, I will upload some tests as soon as I get a chance. I bumped into a really good deal on the D7000 and was wondering if it's worth selling the D5100 and getting the D7000 with the 18-140mm. Now that I have the 70D with an articulating screen for video I don't have to keep the D5100 but would still like to keep a Nikon body to utilize what I invested in lenses and accessories.
I don't know for sure, but I suspect that the video quality with the D5100 and D7000 would be very similar. The only real reason to upgrade to the D7000 would be for the focusing motor, which is built-in, so it focuses with even the older lenses and "D" lenses. I really haven't had a lot of experience with either camera though, so you might want to wait for someone who has dealt with both before making your decision. The D7100 is a big upgrade over the D7000, though and certainly over the D5100 as well. Personally, I don't think I'd spend additional money going from a 5100 to a 7000 currently, but that's just my opinion. In fact, I doubt I'd go for ANY crop-sensor Nikon other than the D7100 currently, as there's nothing else even close to its performance. In the DXOmark tests, even the kit lenses were 30% sharper with the D7100 over the D7000. So maybe holding off until you find a really great deal on a D7100 or even a D600 might be the way to go. The D600 takes brilliant photographs, it's just not so great for video due to the aliasing issues. Now that the D610 has been released, I've seen some pretty big price drops on the D600...so much, in fact, that I'm starting to consider one for myself. I guess that doesn't help you much with your dilemma, sorry.
I don't know for sure, but I suspect that the video quality with the D5100 and D7000 would be very similar. The only real reason to upgrade to the D7000 would be for the focusing motor, which is built-in, so it focuses with even the older lenses and "D" lenses. I really haven't had a lot of experience with either camera though, so you might want to wait for someone who has dealt with both before making your decision. The D7100 is a big upgrade over the D7000, though and certainly over the D5100 as well. Personally, I don't think I'd spend additional money going from a 5100 to a 7000 currently, but that's just my opinion. In fact, I doubt I'd go for ANY crop-sensor Nikon other than the D7100 currently, as there's nothing else even close to its performance. In the DXOmark tests, even the kit lenses were 30% sharper with the D7100 over the D7000. So maybe holding off until you find a really great deal on a D7100 or even a D600 might be the way to go. The D600 takes brilliant photographs, it's just not so great for video due to the aliasing issues. Now that the D610 has been released, I've seen some pretty big price drops on the D600...so much, in fact, that I'm starting to consider one for myself. I guess that doesn't help you much with your dilemma, sorry.
I ended selling my D5100 too for $400 and getting the D7000 new with 18-140mm for about $500 more, it was a special for the Holiday and thought it was worth the upgrade, so now all my Nikon bodies are sold and a D7000 is on the way. I am still waiting for the macro tubes to test on the 70D but will upload something for you when it arrives.
OlegKalyan
Well-known member
I bought 70D and sold it after one day shoot, plan to get D5300 instead.. reasons, AF works pretty good on wide shot, tracking kind of hit and miss.. on close ups, focus may go to places for no reason..
Codec on 70D, too much aliasing unless you do not shoot clothes.. better than 7D, for sure, close to 5dmk3? possibly so, with more moire and aliasing.. D5300 looks more attractive to me, from what I've seen!
Codec on 70D, too much aliasing unless you do not shoot clothes.. better than 7D, for sure, close to 5dmk3? possibly so, with more moire and aliasing.. D5300 looks more attractive to me, from what I've seen!