I want it but I think I need some advice

A

addax

Member
Hi,
I'm making a "list of wishes" and I'd like to know your thoughts about this list:

- Sony FS100
- Zeiss CP.2 35mm (F Mount)
- Zeiss CP.2 85mm (F Mount)
- Atomos Ninja
- Marshall 7'' Monitor --Do I really need it?-- (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...DMIPT_SL_7_High_resolution_Field_Monitor.html)
- Zacuto EVF Filmmaker Kit --I think it is too expensive :cry:-- http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=WishList.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=769610&is=REG)


About me?
- My intends are filming music videos and fiction shorts.
- I'm absolutely not a pro so I have not "deadline issues".
- I have DX Nikon lenses (no Full Frame) so I guess they won't fill the sensor.
- I have ~14.000 $ to expend in it.

Any advice? Can I only use the 35mm lense as a start? Do I really need ND filters? (Can't just speed it up?)

Thanks!!
 
Dx lenses should cover the frame. This is not a full frame camera.

Regarding evf, the zacuto has nicer resolution than the cineroid but the peaking sucks. The cineroid has phenomenal peaking but the resolution isn't as good as the zacuto.

NDs are a must for daytime exteriors. If I wanna shoot at f2.8, even the highest shutter speed of 1/10000 still has me overexposed sometimes. And that's at 0db gain. Nowhere to go but stopping down which I don't wanna do.
 
Your DX lenses should work fine. The sensor on the FS100 is just about the size of DX (APS-C).

EVF might be a necessity depending on how you like to shoot. It's a lot compact than a field monitor and can be both a monitor and EVF.

Yes, you really need a ND filter. Just one vari-ND might be all you need if you end up uing your Nikon glass.
 
If you're just fooling around why not get zeiss ZF's instead? You can get 4 or 5 for the price of 2 cp's.
 
I second the zeiss ZFs, that's what I have and I love them

does anyone know how the SmallHD DP4 compares to the Zacuto EVF?
 
Thanks. I wasn't sure because the DX sensor is smaller than the Super35.

TimurCivan said:
If you're just fooling around why not get zeiss ZF's instead? You can get 4 or 5 for the price of 2 cp's.
Click to expand...

As I say, I'm not a pro at all so I don't know so much about theses lenses, only what I've seen in some footages... But I thought CPs were more "cinestyle". I decided to ask you guys just to get those good advices ;-)
 
I actually love the peaking on the Zacuto EVF (so does Vincent Laforet he tells me) - I get very accurate focus pulls with it. I like the one in the FS100 too but I am actually better with Zacuto's.
 
Get a really good tripod and use about 20% of your budget for a camera. If you're buying the FS100, expect the total investment to be around $40K to do it right, and allow for 15% depreciation off the bat because everything you buy will be wrong, or seem wrong, in time. Get Barry Green's DVDs on this site for starters. Expect to screw everything up often. Don't quit. Read the threads all the way through. Search this forum for each item in your 'wish list' and bone-up so you'll have a chance. Very helpful people here, who love the topic, but newbies like us stand out like sore thumbs, and can irk. Just absorb and endure and you'll grow. $14K is nothing if you're in this league, and odds are, if you're anything like me, you won't know what you are doing with 80% of what you buy. I'd wager most members here have rooms full of gear and more years in this racket under their belts than they even realize. Ask yourself: Do you have a decent NLE set-up? Do you have a financial plan for everything else, e.g., time spent doing this, manpower, and creative areas in which you have no abilities in? Just to operate a camera properly is so complex that it can take two people and that doesn't include audio. I am just learning this myself and I have my own show now and have shot video for several years!!! Be prepared to buy and sell what you buy. If you live near a store or place where they have real gear, go there daily. Have a sense of humor and don't be afraid to bark back at bullies. Do you even know why you want an external recorder? Is it because you want to put your stuff up on the big screen next month? Me too. Guess what? It may take a little longer than you think. You can probably spend six months learning your way around your new camera and then buy the Ninja for 15% less, with firmware updates galore already done for you.... Ask yourself: What is the purpose of having three monitors? You'll go though the paces and figure it out. Unfortunately, there's no call center offering universal help so you need to be thrifty and humble. Just two cents from another newbie who isn't always very good at practicing what he preaches....
 
If you build it, they will come.

Having said that, unless you need to do some serious color grading or unless you need to use a 750GB drive, there is no real external recorder that matches the abilities of the FS100 (i.e. Atomos does not support pulldowns for 24p recorded material, it also does not support 1080@60p and does not support the 10-bit 444 output). The only one that does is the Cinedeck and they are still figuring out if they can do 1080@60p.

For me, the Atomos is at the bottom of the priority list due to all it's short comings.
 
Thanks, you make me think about it. I hope these comments could help other people to decide...

The problem is that I don't have 40k to expend "right now" but I could start with something cheaper I guess. I have a little project in 4 or 5 months, a music video for a band. That's why I'm not worried about sound recording (they have their demo already).

So, that's my new "light" list:
- Sony FS100
- Zeiss CP.2 35mm (F Mount)
- Zeiss ZF.2 85mm
- Matte box + ND (they are so expensive that I can't decide yet :-()
- Tripod + Dolly (I need to think more)

Ok, the monitor was an easy one. I don't think I'll need it to get a good image. It will be harder but I'm gonna try with the LCD or an external LCD through HDMI.

About Ninja, yeah, I knew it can't record 60p but I thought the quality of the 1080p30 would be much better than AVCHD... I'm not sure anymore, hehe, I guess I can try AVCHD for this first "job" and wait for a better external recorder. Remember this is a music video mostly for the internet and maybe some TV channel (720p will match 75% of the "watchers"). Hmmm, it seems AVCHD could be enough...

I think I will need the Zacuto EVF Filmmaker Kit but I can try and then decide if I have to buy a follow-focus. Do you think I could get a smooth change of focus using directly the lens? And definitively I can wait for a shoulder rig.

Do you think I'm missing something? What about these lenses, do you like them?
 
Not trying to tell you what to do, but it makes poor financial sense to purchase all that gear when the only gig you have is an Internet music video 4 or 5 months down the line. Is this even a paying job? And I hate to say it, but just because you build it, does not mean they will come. Without clients this is just a very expensive hobby, that gets even more expensive when you start buying Zeiss CP.2 lenses.

All the Best!

Dave
 
I use a FaderND right now with my FS100. I've tested 30mm and 85mm and I am happy with the results. You WILL need ND, but you don't aways have to use a mattebox. Also, given how clean the FS100 is, you can gain up to get a little more freedom with an ND filter on for some range.
 
Rick Burnett said:
I use a FaderND right now with my FS100. I've tested 30mm and 85mm and I am happy with the results.
Click to expand...

Can you add a link?

David W. Jones said:
Without clients this is just a very expensive hobby
Click to expand...

You're right Dave. As I said I'm not a "pro" at all (computer are my business) that's why I need a guide about the codec, the lenses, the rig, the filters,...

Thanks!
 
In about a week we will be releasing what we shoot tomorrow with the FS100 and a 7D and you'll be able to see the results then. Right now, sadly, I don't have enough time to show a good test. Overloaded with work.
 
Ow, sorry, I meant if you can add a link to see the FaderND product... Good luck tomorrow, I will take a look!
 
All that is really needed to start is the camera with the kits lens, which is OPTIMIZED for it, a good tripod, some ND filters and some lights. And of course a computer to edit. Forget about the lens fallacy, all hot air. Specially when you have to manually focus on difficult situations. Awful footage a lot of the time, especially when you are starting out. $14k should be more than enough to get you started. Do your research and don't listen to people that say you need to spend $40 to get you started. Pure nonsense. Especially in this economy. Shop smart and you will be in great shape to start out. Good luck.
 
addax said:
- Tripod + Dolly (I need to think more)
Click to expand...

Might want to think about going used, and looking for a head that can handle an ever-growing rig yet also have no minimum weight. Heads are VERY expensive. Others here can comment, but long-term, a max weight capacity of like 40lbs and a 100mm bowl for your sticks is something you might want to look at. Used I'm looking at spending between $2-4K.

addax said:
- Zeiss CP.2 35mm (F Mount)
Click to expand...

I know Bloom shows footage he shot using a CP.2 and it looked great but for $4K I don't know that that lens vs a prime still lens is going to differ that much (others are more qualified to comment). You really need to justify the cost. I was in love with the CPs when I first started my joy ride but am learning to dampen myself down a tad. Why not do what was suggested earlier and use Zeiss primes until you know a 'cine' lens is even necessary? If you have a MB, you'll 'look' like a pro and can get something wide as that 35 is going to be more like a 50 FOV on this cam?

addax said:
Matte box + ND (they are so expensive that I can't decide yet :-()
Click to expand...

There's a Pro Aim V11 for $200 right here that you could use to get started with. Once you now how to use it you could sell and your depreciation would be barely nothing. http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?252264-Proaim-v11-mattbox-for-sale-200-or-bid-via-ebay

addax said:
Ok, the monitor was an easy one. I don't think I'll need it to get a good image. It will be harder but I'm gonna try with the LCD or an external LCD through HDMI.
Click to expand...

You can get an ext monitor for under $300 used. 7". I have bad eyes. I was saying three monitors seemed like overkill.

addax said:
I think I will need the Zacuto EVF Filmmaker Kit but I can try and then decide if I have to buy a follow-focus. Do you think I could get a smooth change of focus using directly the lens? And definitively I can wait for a shoulder rig.
Click to expand...

Zacuto is very expensive. Most rigs evolve from a baseplate and MB from what I can see. There is a person here right now and a thread about a company (I think) called Berkley that is developing a specific top plate for the FS100. It may be ready in two weeks. I was in love with Zacuto but have since seen at least a dozen other makers of things that are way cheaper and very solid and used, which is a good way to start. I have not bought one new item yet, except for Green's DVDs (which I would've bought used, but felt I'd support their cause).

addax said:
Do you think I'm missing something? What about these lenses, do you like them?
Click to expand...

I think you are missing a ton. So much, in fact, that putting it on me or anyone else to tell you is a little bit of a reach. You need to do more homework by reading. Compose your post/question based on research. "Like" is subjective. Most here will say 'what do you want to do?' Are you shooting handheld, do you want a certain 'look' from the glass, e.g, cool or warm or creamy? How do you intend to light this? Shooting indoors or out? If you just want an all-round lens you could get the kit lens and see where you are mostly shooting in terms of focal length. If you are always shooting at 35mm and 85mm then you might be in good shape there, but you may not know that until you get the footage into your computer and look at what you like.
 
John Caballero said:
All that really is needed to start is the camera with the kits lens, which is OPTIMIZED for it, a good tripod, some ND filters and some lights. And of course a computer to edit. Forget about the lens fallacy, all hot air. Specially when you have to manually focus on difficult situations. Awful footage a lot of the time, especially when you are starting out. $14k should be more than enough to get you started. Do your research and don't listen to people that say you need to spend $40 to get you started. Pure nonsense. Especially in this economy. Shop smart and you will be in great shape to start out. Good luck.
Click to expand...

I'm saying if you spend $5K for a cube like the FS, and have nothing else, and plan to produce movies and music videos, that camera is going to be a small % of budget. I just guesstimated 20%. My math was wrong as 20% of $25K is $5K. So my mistake. If OP is saying he'll spend $4K for one lens + $5K for base cam, that's $9K. Add kit lens, shipping and a few cards and you're at $10K. If he was trying to make a biz out of it I don't think $15K for lights, sound, head, legs, baseplate, mattebox, filters, rods, monitor, batteries, and all the other stuff he thinks he wants can be had without it adding up. I he was shooting the Beatles in Shea Stadium he could do it with his iPhone and save $13+K too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top