I think this is an important issue...

Films should be shown at the original frame rate so for instance 24p/23.976 should be broadcast as such.

I don't watch TV so I don't know but is that the case of is it still telecined, or worse, blended into 60i?
If so I would start with the broadcasters to start correcting things.
 
I almost shares that same article! The issue isnt how theyre BROADCAST, its a setting built into the TVs that regular folks dont know or care about enough to turn off.
 
As far as I could tell the article wasnt talking about broadcasters and how they show the films/shows, but rather a setting on the TV itself...i.e. something the broadcasters have no control over, that is put in by manufacturers (possibly to compensate for other technical deficiencies in the TV), and ultimately controlled by the owner of the TV (but probably ignored because most people dont know or care about this stuff).
 
Thanks for posting the article, but nothing new here. This has been going on for probably the better part of a decade now. I remember the first "120Hz" HD sets and walking into electronics stores and all of the sets that had it, had it turned on and the movies playing looked like BTS from the movie instead of the movie itself. There have been countless discussions, debates and threads about 24 frame content vs. higher frame rates. I'm in the camp of 24 frame content is a huge part of "the suspension of disbelief".

My 4K LG set has one of the motion interpolation schemes in it(it is actually adjustable/customizable) and one of the first things I did when setting it up, was to turn it off, but there are some times every now and again where some content(that is 24/23.98 originated) still looks a little "too smooth" and I can't tell if the TV is "sneaking" something in or what. I have read that with my particular set, at least, sometimes it's better to leave the options on and just turn their settings/adjustments down to zero.
 
Josh Bass said:
As far as I could tell the article wasnt talking about broadcasters and how they show the films/shows, but rather a setting on the TV itself...i.e. something the broadcasters have no control over, that is put in by manufacturers (possibly to compensate for other technical deficiencies in the TV), and ultimately controlled by the owner of the TV (but probably ignored because most people dont know or care about this stuff).
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And that makes it a non-issue for you?

Again I do not watch TV so it could be that they finally broadcast 24p (and yes that is in the standard) or if they stil are telecining films, or even worse, blend frames.
 
Here's the real problem. The smoothing-out effect (and high refresh rate) works well for live sports - soccer, baseball, football, hockey. It is awful for watching movies and 1-hr dramatic TV programs outside of the daytime soaps. The feature is adjustable in every decent (low end 60 Mhz models usually don't have it built-in) set. But then the human behavior comes to play. Most people will not be going into the TV menus to turn it on and off, as to fit the program they are watching. In fact, most TV owners don't go into their menus at all or, if they do go there, they end up screwing up more than fine-tuning it. A TV manufacturer should probably make a remote with several preset buttons and leave it there.
 
Run&Gun said:
Thanks for posting the article, but nothing new here. This has been going on for probably the better part of a decade now. I remember the first "120Hz" HD sets and walking into electronics stores and all of the sets that had it, had it turned on and the movies playing looked like BTS from the movie instead of the movie itself. There have been countless discussions, debates and threads about 24 frame content vs. higher frame rates. I'm in the camp of 24 frame content is a huge part of "the suspension of disbelief".

My 4K LG set has one of the motion interpolation schemes in it(it is actually adjustable/customizable) and one of the first things I did when setting it up, was to turn it off, but there are some times every now and again where some content(that is 24/23.98 originated) still looks a little "too smooth" and I can't tell if the TV is "sneaking" something in or what. I have read that with my particular set, at least, sometimes it's better to leave the options on and just turn their settings/adjustments down to zero.
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Yup. Got a Sharp Smart Tv as a gift and I couldn't turn off the "smoothing" effect. Wound up with a Toshiba TV that was 60hz
 
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I am one of the few people on this site that dislikes 24p, but I dislike frame blending on higher hz TVs even more. It's not the soap opera effect in my opinion, it's just artificial and distracting. Sports should just be broadcast in 60p UHD or 1080p. I think 24p's days are numbered. Hollywood directors are switching over, everyone is playing videogames at 60p, and the general public has gotten use to HFR due to not knowing how to switch off the effect on their TV.
 
Director James Gunn posted on Facebook recently how he went to his parents house and went around turning off the motion smoothing on all of their TV's. It was rather funny. I don't know any serious professional who considers this anything less than an abomination against the laws of nature. Manufacturers should be tarred and feathered for ever creating such a feature. I don't give a darn if people want smoother motion. I don't walk into the kitchen of a restaurant and start pushing the chef out of the way to add my own stuff to the recipe. I don't make it a habit to open a magazine and draw devil horns on all the models with a red crayon just so I can enjoy the pictures a lot more.

The single biggest issue here, which was the case of James Gunns parent, is that people just don't even know it is there. Most people don't know the TV is doing it and don't know how to drop their sharpness levels let along turn off a feature they are not aware even exists. These TVs should at the very least come with the feature turned off so 99% of consumers wouldn't be forced to use it against their will. If a consumer happens to love butchering and bastardizing a movie for their own sick twisted perverted reasons then they can hunt for the darn thing and turn it on.
 
cpreston said:
I am one of the few people on this site that dislikes 24p, but I dislike frame blending on higher hz TVs even more. It's not the soap opera effect in my opinion, it's just artificial and distracting. Sports should just be broadcast in 60p UHD or 1080p. I think 24p's days are numbered. Hollywood directors are switching over, everyone is playing videogames at 60p, and the general public has gotten use to HFR due to not knowing how to switch off the effect on their TV.
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I don't know about that...maybe its an age group/generational thing but I think 24p is ingrained within people as being "the cinematic" look and if...whoever...made a real effort to make it go away there would be a lot of pushback from creators. Then again I cant really argue with many of your other points, which makes me sad. If five or ten years from now all our narrative fiction shows and movies look like soap operas/the news I will not be a happy camper.
 
Technical reasons aside 24fps was established as a standard precisely because of it's "unreal" or magical look. I'm not a fan of 48 or 60 fps in most situations because for me it has the opposite effect. I love the trance-like feeling I get when I sit in a theater and watch 24fps roll by ;)
 
scorsesefan said:
Technical reasons aside 24fps was established as a standard precisely because of it's "unreal" or magical look.
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Is that actually true?

My understanding is that 24fps was chosen as the minimum rate to enable a minimal quality soundtrack on the celluloid, film after all was and is expensive.

The reason that it was chosen because it gave a "magic" look seems more like myth making than history to me.
 
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Thats what I recall reading...long long time ago films were 18 fps or something and then 24 because of some tech reason. Just like how 29.97 came from something to do with a shielding problem with TVs relates to the American electrical system (Not sure about any of this).
 
In theory I love the idea of pushing technical bounds. Who says 24? Why did we say 24? Why can't cinema push new heights? Why not 144fps like a high-end PC gaming system, with a curved 3D screen? Complete immersion into the world. Maybe 48/60p simply aren't fast enough and are the halfway point. Maybe we need those plus 100-200fps to make it feel like you are teleported into a new reality.

Props to Jackson for trying. Props to Cameron for the rumors of Avatar 2 being 60p (30p for each eye) in 3D, saying that 48fps wasn't enough, and the other ways in which he pushes.

Now on the flip side...

I don't like the look. I like 24p and 180d motion blur.

Why? Because it's right? Or because I've seen it my whole life, and psychologists have determined that we all "prefer what we are used to." It's why some people can't get over eaten well done steak, because they grew up with it. Maybe I am hopelessly used to the inferior technology that is 24p and doomed to enjoy it my whole life and reject advances.

But darnit, I do, and I will continue to go around turning off auto motion plus and smack talking non-24p content with improper motion blur.

And on that note, I believe TV manufacturers should not bury the auto motion setting, but be forced to rename it something standard by federal standards like "Motion Blur Removal" with a short industry standard description saying something like ("For use with sports and some news broadcasts, removes cinematic motion blur. Not intended for use with movies, most TV shows, or other cinematic content"). That would clear up a lot of confusion.

I am positive in hindsight when HDTV first came out and lay people were complaining it looked "too real" they were all referring to the Best Buy sets crammed up to 60-120hz removing motion blur, and NOT the additional resolution. And now those same people have it sitting in their home with the thing cranked to 120hz.
 
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