GH4 I think I've talked my friend into a GH4

Michael Thames

Michael Thames

Carbonite Member
He doesn't know much about it and is trusting me on this. His budget is limited so I told him to get the GH4, he doesn't have enough money for a Canon so I said this was the second best. My question is.... What is good inexpensive lens for this thing, and second does he need a speed booster to make this thing work?
 
"pick a lens, any lens..."

Of course what he'll want will likely vary by how he's using it, any by how he defines 'inexpensive.'

Native glass (for auto everything). The Lumix 12-35 and 35-100 are standards, but expensive (although not at all if going by Canon L zoom terms). Alternates are the Olympus 12-40 and 40-150/2.8. Less expensive but slow native alternatives are the Lumix 14-140 or older 14-45, a number of variations from Olympus (12-50). There's the mess of good 4/3 lenses that tend to autofocus slowly (if at all), but no worse than Canon lenses on the Metabones adapters - examples being the Olympus 12-60/2.8-4 and 14-54/2.8-3.5, 50-200, and Leica DG 14-50/2.8-3.5, and in the 'expensive' 4/3 legacy glass category the Olympus 14-35/2 and 35-100/2. Tons of primes available for the system from Olympus, Panasonic, and Sigma in addition to the all-manual alternatives (Voigtlander, Rokinon, Zeiss, Kowa, SLR Magic, etc).

Speedboosters are handy if you already have other systems' lenses. Metabones sells less expensive adapters that don't include the speedbooster if those lenses are still in a useable range for you with the crop. They can also be used to give you a very useable lens system with certain APS-designed lenses, albeit with no auto functions and size/weight/balance issues. For instance, one of my quick 3-zoom kits uses the SB (and non-SB adapter) with the Tokina 11-16, Sigma 18-35, and older version 50-150 lenses, total cost about $2200 for the three lenses and two adapters used.

If you like any systems' lenses, you can use them... adapters for just about anything except Sony E-mount (which barely has any lenses anyway). I'm editing a camera museum promo piece I shot a month or so ago, and parts were shot on a variety of lenses using mounts including Leica thread mount, Leica M and R, Contax/Zeiss, ALPA, Nikon G, F, and S, Olympus OM and PenFT, and Pentax 110. I have a Bolex 16mm prime that works well, although a little awkward to use. My main interview lens used to be a Vivitar Series 1 28-90/2.8-3.5 in OM mount, which I bought for $15 and shot a number of very high-profile interviews. They're all full manual, but they work and can sometimes be gotten very inexpensively, and some very much prefer the look as older glass trims the hyper-sharpness many find in the native Lumix lenses. My favorites are a set of Leica R primes (modded with Nikon F mounts so they'd work with my SB) bought second-hand for ~$500 each... a damn sight prettier than any other prime I've ever used, native or otherwise.

So yeah... find a lens you like and use it. Just warn him not to switch it to Cine-D with everything mashed to -5 and expect excellence. Try some of the standard settings first, and read here.
 
I had a friend start asking me about what camera to buy. It's really difficult for me and many other people too, because we develop a style or way of working over time. Such a way of working that is hard to explain to a novice. I remember just getting these blank dead stares as I began to explain lenses and what not.

I just tell people to get the kit lens. ahaahhah! Then they ask me if I have the kit lens and I say I don't. Then they ask, "how come?" Then I begin another explanation and their eyes glaze over again.

So. Just tell them to get the kit or standard zoom, and save the headache.
 
He should get at least one lens with Mega OIS stablization, especially if he's going to be running and gunning a lot.
 
It all depends on what he's using it for.

Just getting into film making and wants to shoot a short film? Go for it! It will be crap (ok, that may be a bit presumptuous, but we all shoot crap to some degree at first!) but he'll learn. To be frank, I don't know if the GH4 is the camera to do that with. Personally, if I was getting a friend started, I'd recommend the GH1, GH2, or GX7.

GH1 because it's the cheapest (used, obviously) and has amazing image quality with the hack. GH2 because it has amazing image quality with the hack and is more stable and has better audio than the GH1 and can be had relatively cheap. GX7 because it has focus peaking and I absolutely adore focus peaking on my GH4 for doing anything with manual focus. But, hey, the GH4 is also much more future resistant. So he can grow into it.

As for the lens, I'd say buy a Minolta Rokkor MD mount 28mm f2.8 (around $30 ebay), Minolta Rokkor 50mm F1.7 (around $20) or 50mm F1.4 (Around $50) and a $15 adapter. Also grab the cheapo, but still pretty decent 14-42mm Lumix Mega OIS lens. Whole setup is about $250 + the camera. Of course, then you need to worry about audio, but hey, he's learning!

The good news is that you can get the MD to M43 speedbooster down the road.
 
A lot of people poopoo the 14-140 lens but it really is a work horse. It pretty much covers anything and everything except for low light shooting. Look for used version of the older 14-140 lens. You can usually get pretty good deals on that lens and in some ways is better than the newer 14-140 lens. The thing with the 14-140 is that is it pretty dark but if you use lighting (which I think you should) or bump up the ISO it can see pretty far in the dark. It isn't as if the lens can't do low light, just that it will have a lot more noise if you use it in low light. This is part of the tradeoff with a budget. Do you go for a few primes limiting the type of stuff you can shoot or do you go for a super zoom that will have more noise but can shoot just about anything.

As the person gets more experience they can start to build up a collection of faster primes.
 
Michael Thames said:
...so I told him to get the GH4, he doesn't have enough money for a Canon so I said this was the second best.
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Are you kidding? Since when is a GH4 "second best" to a Canon---*any* Canon (barring maybe the C300 or 1DC)??? The GH4 is a killer camera---it's not a "second best" of anything---it is THE best for it's size and price, and better than just about anything less than double it's price. Even a hacked GH1 bests many of the Canon models, including the 5dMkII and 7d.

Whether knowingly or not, I think you really gave your friend the right advice. Maybe you need to inform him that he shouldn't feel bad if he "only" gets the GH4 lol. :happy:

As for lenses, he should get at least a good old manual focus 50mm, ANY 50mm (and any other older primes he can afford, like a Nikkor 28mm f/3.5, etc.). I prefer Nikon but I don't think any major camera manufacturer made any bad 50's. 50mm f/2 and f1.8's can be had for quite cheaply. If he is a beginner then I second what the others have said about the 14-140mm. I hate that lens and couldn't stand to use it, but everyone is different, and many people love them. I have to admit the image stabilization on it is good. He needs to be able to make an educated choice of what he's going to prefer using, and having a good prime and a decent zoom like the 14-140 will let him compare the strengths and weaknesses of each.
 
He does stuff like this. Just music/guitar videos. He doesn't want to learn more than he has to, but he records, films, and edits all his stuff. So he can get by, he doesn't want it taking over his musical career. Is the GH4 the right camera for him or perhaps the 7D mk II? Damn that GH4 kit lens is $900.00!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeqrD2RcACM
 
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lvlinux said:
Are you kidding? Since when is a GH4 "second best" to a Canon---*any* Canon (barring maybe the C300 or 1DC)??? The GH4 is a killer camera---it's not a "second best" of anything---it is THE best for it's size and price, and better than just about anything less than double it's price. Even a hacked GH1 bests many of the Canon models, including the 5dMkII and 7d.

Whether knowingly or not, I think you really gave your friend the right advice. Maybe you need to inform him that he shouldn't feel bad if he "only" gets the GH4 lol. :happy:
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Well you are talking to a very happy 5D3 and C100 owner. I almost bought the GH4 a couple of months ago, but came to my senses! My advice to him is based on him getting his first good camera..... perhaps if I didn't already have the Canons, I might start off with the GH4. The price is good, but I forgot about the lenses and speed booster etc. so the price starts to go up fast. I think he can get by with a 50mm lens for now and add on later. He's not interested i film making just recording himself playing guitar. He has two Canon HV-40's he's been using but wants to move up a little.

What about the Panasonic LX100 it has a nice lens and from the images I've seen for some strange reason I kind like it more than the GH4.
 
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This type of brand war is pretty unproductive.
The reality is both the C100 and the GH4 are capable of producing a great image in the right hands. (there is a difference in price tho)
There are many users who own both cams and intercut them in post and they look very similar...and thats to discerning DP's.
If someone who has skills and knows what they are doing films and does a good edit of a final vid in either camera and plays it to a viewer...I can almost guarantee they are not going to say wow this looks great...and that is crap.

Brand wars are kinda pointless ...its really just saying my camera is better than yours.
Reality is ...at this level it comes down to the user more than the brand.
 
astromann said:
This type of brand war is pretty unproductive.
The reality is both the C100 and the GH4 are capable of producing a great image in the right hands. (there is a difference in price tho)
There are many users who own both cams and intercut them in post and they look very similar...and thats to discerning DP's.
If someone who has skills and knows what they are doing films and does a good edit of a final vid in either camera and plays it to a viewer...I can almost guarantee they are not going to say wow this looks great...and that is crap.

Brand wars are kinda pointless ...its really just saying my camera is better than yours.
Reality is ...at this level it comes down to the user more than the brand.
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Well the C100 is obviously out of the picture price wise, and yes, we all know both cameras take lovely images. His girl friend has a Canon DSLR with a couple of lenses so that is a slight consideration. It's about money, and for the money looks like the GH4 is a great deal, that is if he can find a fairly cheap lens. I just remembered the 7D is out because of the limited recording time..... it's definitely the GH4 with a cheap good lens.

Anything like the Canon "plastic fantastic" 50mm 1.8 for the GH4?
 
There's the Contax Zeiss 50mm f1.7, which is available cheaply and is a stunning piece of glass. He'll need a contax to m43 adapter. If you're advising him, don't forget the GH4 sensor has a x2 crop factor, a little bit more when you're shooting 4k, so what seems like a good focal length on a canon may not work so well on the Panny, and vice versa.

I'd recommend the Contax Zeiss 28mm f2.8 as a 'standard' lens. Shop around and you'll get another fabulous lens for cheap.

my 02

p.s. Panasonic's own 14-45 zoom is a good starter lens and very sharp
 
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Michael Thames said:
Well the C100 is obviously out of the picture price wise, and yes, we all know both cameras take lovely images. His girl friend has a Canon DSLR with a couple of lenses so that is a slight consideration. It's about money, and for the money looks like the GH4 is a great deal, that is if he can find a fairly cheap lens. I just remembered the 7D is out because of the limited recording time..... it's definitely the GH4 with a cheap good lens.

Anything like the Canon "plastic fantastic" 50mm 1.8 for the GH4?
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Yep...I have the 12-35 and a couple of others as well as some old glass, actually the 20mm F1.7 is pretty good value, its harder to handle tho cause no OIS, but its capable of a nice image and reasonable in low light.
The 12-35 handles really well even in 4K its pretty steady, but not real great in low light, and kinda expensive.
 
For 'normal' FOV on the GH4, just pick something in the 15-25mm range. Olympus 17/1.8, Panasonic 20/1.7 and PanaLeica 25/1.4 would be the standouts with full auto capability. Sigma 19/2.8 or older Olympus 17/2.8 are the least expensive auto option. Tons of manual lenses in that category as well.

If his recordings don't last more than 29:59, then the 7D.2 or LX100 are definite contenders... only question with the Canon being how long he plans to have his current girlfriend around. For short self-shot videos, the huge disadvantage to those two is not the time limit, but the inability to turn the LCD around to frame yourself properly. Plan on rigging up an external monitor (even something as simple as a small TV) with either for that use.

One extremely handy feature for self-shooting or any remote control situation with the GH4 is not just the LCD, but WiFi control via Panasonics Image app on phone/tablet devices... set up the shot, focus (if your lens is AF-capable), start/stop recording, change settings, very useful.

If 1080 is good enough, the GH3 and G6 are still around and not at all incapable of quality images, and are much cheaper. The Panasonic GX7 or Olympus OMD-EM1 give the bonus of in body image stabilization, which may be moot if he's shooting himself from a tripod, but they both provide a very very nice 1080 image straight out of camera - also no LCD flipping.

Or, there are a number of hybrid 1" sensor camcorders available, which would offer a bit more depth of field for focusing purposes. There are still plenty of situations where large sensors don't offer a significant advantage, and if he's been soldiering along OK with HV40's, maybe his is one of those situations.

Certainly that helped clear everything up for you ;)
 
The nice thing about the GH4 for shooting yourself in a video like that is that the 4K will let him take one shot and punch in and pan and scan. For any kind of work going to internet, almost nobody could tell you punched in up to about 75% on a 4K image. That advantage is also there on the LX100. One question is whether he wants to do audio straight into the camera. That would rule the LX100 and GX7 out. I say 14-45 on a GH2 seems like the way to go, but a GH4 if he has the computer horsepower/storage to run 4K and wants that workflow.
 
lvlinux said:
Are you kidding? Since when is a GH4 "second best" to a Canon---*any* Canon (barring maybe the C300 or 1DC)??? The GH4 is a killer camera---it's not a "second best" of anything---it is THE best for it's size and price, and better than just about anything less than double it's price. Even a hacked GH1 bests many of the Canon models, including the 5dMkII and 7d.
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² Why on earth would you think a 7DmII could be better then a GH4? The only canon dslr that comes near it is the canon 1DC and higher(C100). Anyhow it depends what he is after, but the GH4 does need more expensive glass then canon dslrs. (speedbooster or leica or if you want really awesome lenses then buy the voigtlanders). Canon made killer camera's in the past like the 5DmII and made this revolution happen we are thankfull for that. But the last 4 years they have not released any camera that is any better then the 5DmII. (5DmIII with magic lantern is also good, but then you are shooting raw, good luck storing all your files).
 
mcbob said:
For 'normal' FOV on the GH4, just pick something in the 15-25mm range. Olympus 17/1.8, Panasonic 20/1.7 and PanaLeica 25/1.4 would be the standouts with full auto capability. Sigma 19/2.8 or older Olympus 17/2.8 are the least expensive auto option. Tons of manual lenses in that category as well.

If his recordings don't last more than 29:59, then the 7D.2 or LX100 are definite contenders... only question with the Canon being how long he plans to have his current girlfriend around. For short self-shot videos, the huge disadvantage to those two is not the time limit, but the inability to turn the LCD around to frame yourself properly. Plan on rigging up an external monitor (even something as simple as a small TV) with either for that use.

One extremely handy feature for self-shooting or any remote control situation with the GH4 is not just the LCD, but WiFi control via Panasonics Image app on phone/tablet devices... set up the shot, focus (if your lens is AF-capable), start/stop recording, change settings, very useful.

If 1080 is good enough, the GH3 and G6 are still around and not at all incapable of quality images, and are much cheaper. The Panasonic GX7 or Olympus OMD-EM1 give the bonus of in body image stabilization, which may be moot if he's shooting himself from a tripod, but they both provide a very very nice 1080 image straight out of camera - also no LCD flipping.

Or, there are a number of hybrid 1" sensor camcorders available, which would offer a bit more depth of field for focusing purposes. There are still plenty of situations where large sensors don't offer a significant advantage, and if he's been soldiering along OK with HV40's, maybe his is one of those situations.

Certainly that helped clear everything up for you ;)
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Great those first three wide angle lens look good and the price is right! I will suggest those to him. He can move up in lenses as he gains more experience but I think a 50mm is a good place to start. Yes, I forget about the crop factor on the GH4. Yes, the wifi control is very important because he usually does this alone and setting up a shot of himself can be difficult. Thanks for the advice.

Yea, the girlfriend is angry he is buying a new camera instead of saving up for their wedding, so it looks like a perfect marriage that is between a GH4 and a Canon T2i.
 
blazer003 said:
The nice thing about the GH4 for shooting yourself in a video like that is that the 4K will let him take one shot and punch in and pan and scan. For any kind of work going to internet, almost nobody could tell you punched in up to about 75% on a 4K image. That advantage is also there on the LX100. One question is whether he wants to do audio straight into the camera. That would rule the LX100 and GX7 out. I say 14-45 on a GH2 seems like the way to go, but a GH4 if he has the computer horsepower/storage to run 4K and wants that workflow.
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Yes that is one technique he uses in his videos a lot. He records on an external device but just needs an audio reference to sync up with. He just bought a Mac trash can so he is well equipment in the horsepower dept. Thanks!
 
Michael Thames said:
Is the GH4 the right camera for him or perhaps the 7D mk II?
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The 7D Mk2 is a competent choice when shooting stills, but it's a "dog" when it comes to shooting video. Pretty much anything from Nikon, Panasonic, Sony is better than Canon for video. ( with the exception of the 5D Mk3 )

Michael Thames said:
Damn that GH4 kit lens is $900.00!
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You're looking at their high-end f/2.8 kit lens, where the 14-42mm ver II or 14-45mm Panasonic kit lenses are excellent choices at $300 or less.

I would recommend that your friend starts with one of the kit lenses ( even one of the $300 lenses ), then buy a Metabones Nikon G mount adapter ( about $130 ) along with a used Nikon 50mm f/1.4 AI-S lens. ( about $150+ used )

Beyond this, it all depends on what his budget is...
 
Polaroid22 said:
² Why on earth would you think a 7DmII could be better then a GH4? The only canon dslr that comes near it is the canon 1DC and higher(C100). Anyhow it depends what he is after, but the GH4 does need more expensive glass then canon dslrs. (speedbooster or leica or if you want really awesome lenses then buy the voigtlanders). Canon made killer camera's in the past like the 5DmII and made this revolution happen we are thankfull for that. But the last 4 years they have not released any camera that is any better then the 5DmII. (5DmIII with magic lantern is also good, but then you are shooting raw, good luck storing all your files).
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Well, it's primarily the lens issues..... I like Canon glass.... some excellent cheap lenses, and I'm familiar with Canons. However, I looked up the price of the 7D mkII and was shocked, and immediately put it out of the running. I also considered a 6D for him but again the GH4 is cheaper. He absolutely loves the look of my 5D3 even more than the C100, so I would say sharpness and detail are not the primary motivations for him, especially in what I would call for lack of a better term "portrait shots" of him playing guitar..... and for close ups I'm sorry you simply can't beat the FF look and mojo colors of the 5D3. The GH4 is an excellent camera but these statements that it is better than Canon are tiresome, as it does somethings very well but not everything, I'm a fan of FF sensors for portraits shots an interviews.
 
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