i think i just downgraded my speakers by accident...

D

dv416

Well-known member
long post... sorry.

so, i've had the Altec Lansing 621 speaker set for, jeeze, like 6 years now? its a 2.1 channel set. cost me maybe $100 or 125 when i first bought it. at the time, i was looking for some high end computer speakers, and i'd say i found em. honestly, i dont think "computer speakers" get much better than these. cut to: last week. i decide i'm going to finally upgrade to "audio monitors." i do some quick research on B&H and find the m-audio AV-40s - stereo monitors, with woofer / tweet in each unit. admitedly, i'm somewhat ignorant when it comes to pro audio gear. i know monitors are supposed to play audio with greater accuracy across the frequency spectrum. thats what i thought anyway.

side note: i remember playing around with the keyboards at guitar center a few years back that were rigged up to tiny little monitors and being blown away by the bass output. i figured that's what i would be getting with the AV40s.

seems i was wrong. the AV-40s just sound bad - relatively speaking of course. the bass doesn't compare to the 621s. after looking at the specs (which i SHOULD have done before... stupid me) i see that the AV40s have 4 inch woofers while the 621 woofer is 6.5 inches, with a better frequency response too.

so, my question is... have i legitimately downgraded, or am i just doing something wrong? also, is it possible that those little keyboard monitors at guitar center are rigged up to pre amps of some sort?

what do you guys look for when you're trying to put together an audio setup for FCP / soundtrack so you can mix accurately.
 
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Unfortunately, there are no solutions in this price range that are truly accurate.

If you are planning to edit and mix your own audio, you need to look at two things. First, the speakers should be truly accurate monitors. You won't find them cheap. Genelec 8030A, Mackie HR824mk2. We're talking about a minimum of $650-750 per speaker, but you get what you pay for. Add a subwoofer for another grand.

The second thing to think about is that the best speakers in the world aren't going to help in a poor acoustic environment. You'll need to treat your space to neutralize acoustic flaws, minimize reflections, etc. There are some effective package solutions from Auralex that can treat smaller rooms, as well as larger spaces.

Speaker systems made specifically for computers/multimedia are going to be the least accurate. Systems like that AV40 are actually pretty nice (once you've used the built-in contouring to shape them a bit for your room) for listening... and I'm talking about listening in the sense of end-user, home stereo system. But even after you've invested in accurate monitors and you've treated your room, keep a cheap pair of multimedia speakers on hand. Use that to check your mix once in a while against the mix monitors. It's nice to preview on something close to what many of your viewers will use.
 
You're right, you definitely should look at the specs. At least you know that now.
You should also search studio monitors in this forum and the general forum as well. You'll find a ton of great info on this. Don't forget that studio monitors are going to sound flat. The idea being that you want to hear every detail and defect in order to correct it before your final output.
 
NO "computer speakers" are good for anything beyond producing sound-effects when playing games on your computer. I have never seen/heard of any "computer speakers" that had decent enough response (especially across the critical mid-band where voices are) to use for proper mixing. Many have quite remarkable dips (and even completely missing frequency bands) between the lower end of the "satellite" speakers and the "subwoofer". But if the "subwoofer" produces enough "thump", it will distract you from the missing parts.

I would bet that the M-Audio speakers are actually better through the mid-band than your plastic Altec "computer speakers". [Altec used to be a respected audio brand name, but now the name is used on low-end, plastic, mass-market consumer stuff. How the mighty have fallen.]

Don't be unduly influenced by a fat-sounding bottom end, particularly from a single "sub-woofer". You are trying to compare mass-market "computer speakers" with audio equipment that was designed for balanced performance vs. something that sounds impressive in the supermarket.

If you want only impressive-sounding noise with thumpy bass output, then stick with your Altec "computer speakers". But if you need something more accurate through the middle band (where you really need it), then the M-Audio are probably what you need.

Speaker system frequency-response "specifications" are almost entirely fictional. And even when accurate, still cannot convey what the speakers actually SOUND like. Even high-end speakers can only be evaluated by hearing them first-hand, preferably in comparison with competitors' models, and then finally evaluated in your own work space acoustics.
 
dv416 said:
long post... sorry.

...
side note: i remember playing around with the keyboards at guitar center a few years back that were rigged up to tiny little monitors and being blown away by the bass output. i figured that's what i would be getting with the AV40s.

seems i was wrong. the AV-40s just sound bad - relatively speaking of course. the bass doesn't compare to the 621s. after looking at the specs (which i SHOULD have done before... stupid me) i see that the AV40s have 4 inch woofers while the 621 woofer is 6.5 inches, with a better frequency response too.

...
Click to expand...

'Big bass' is not necessarily a good thing. Many cheap speakers (and sadly, many not-so-cheap consumer 'Hi-Fi' speakers such as Bose), and especially "multimedia" computer speakers, artificially hype the bass to sound impressive when playing music and games. But booming bass does NOT define good frequency response - what you're looking for in monitors is smooth response over the entire frequency spectrum, with no peaks or valleys audible anywhere, when playing in your mixing environment. And unfortunately, that does not come cheap. If you want the bass to boom in a certain passage, it needs to come from the mix itself, not the speakers.
 
To get a decent bass response I always go for the 8" woofers. If you are serious the price is high for really accurate monitors. My pair of JBLs, that self calibrate to adjust the bass response to the room they are in went for 1,500.00 for the pair:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/410504-REG/JBL_LSR4328P_LSR_4328P_Two_Way_8_.html

A good serious starter pair would be 600.00: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/607690-REG/JBL_LSR2328P_LSR2328P_165W_8_Active.html

Bottom of the semi-decent price range:

6.5" Woof Alesis M1 - 299.00 a pair: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ACTIVE_MKII_PAIR__M1_Active_Mk2_Monitors.html

8" woof M-Audio Studiophile BX8a Deluxe 350.00 a pair (add to cart price): http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...00_52685_00_Studiophile_BX8a_Deluxe_130W.html

100.00 will not cut it. 300.00 - 350.00 is a deal and you will really represent the low end with the 8". More power in the active monitors helps give more headroom, so your sound is less distorted. Bi-Amplified means that there is a separate amp for the tweeter and woofer. I say return those terrible monitors you bought ASAP and save another 200.00 or so and be done with it.
 
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My wife has those speakers (Altec) and they are awful. Extremely hyped bass, and no control over it, pretty garbage mid. Your mids (what actually is important for that boring stuff like dialog) are what 2"? If what you want is to emulate those bass cannons idiots put in cars then you got it but they are useless for cutting sound.
 
altec 621s have volume knob on the woofer. i've heard crappy sounding altecs and these are not them. i'm not looking for car bass cannons. that is not how i would describe my current speakers either. btw, they are 1" tweeter, 3" mid, 6.5 bass.

the bass sound that i can't stand - that i'm trying to avoid - is where you're listening to music, it sounds fine, then all of a sudden, a wash of bass at some "sweet spot" frequency for the speakers cuts through out of nowhere, drowns out the music, or the edit, or whatever you're working on. it then goes away, as soon as the bass note changes, or goes too low for the speakers.

it doesn't happen on my 621s. it does on the av-40s. how can anyone mix with that?
 
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Honestly, unless your budget is over $4,000 and you just happen to have a room with nice dimensions, you're not going to get accurate enough bass to mix it correctly. (Louder bass sounding better is just a psycho-acoustical phenomenon. It's tricky to overcome that instinct.)

Someone mentioned Auralex treatment above, and just as a follow up suggestion, they offer a free room analysis (basically send in an overhead diagram of your room and they give you suggestions about how to best spend your money correcting the issues)
http://www.auralex.com/pcf/
 
Gohanto, I get a decent mix that transfers to cars, home stereos, and big systems on my JBLs. I do have Auralex treatment that cost 100.00, + another 100 or so on some less expensive foam. I have a small room, but the self calibration really does wonders. It isn't perfect, but it's good. It's important to place yourself right in the sweet spot( make an equilateral triangle with the 2 speakers and your head, and have your ears at the same height as the tweeters, speakers pointing in toward your head)while mixing, as well as put some bass traps in the corners etc. Yes one can always do better, but it is possible to get good mixes without sending a whole lot.
 
dv416 said:
altec 621s have volume knob on the woofer. i've heard crappy sounding altecs and these are not them. i'm not looking for car bass cannons. that is not how i would describe my current speakers either. btw, they are 1" tweeter, 3" mid, 6.5 bass.

the bass sound that i can't stand - that i'm trying to avoid - is where you're listening to music, it sounds fine, then all of a sudden, a wash of bass at some "sweet spot" frequency for the speakers cuts through out of nowhere, drowns out the music, or the edit, or whatever you're working on. it then goes away, as soon as the bass note changes, or goes too low for the speakers.

it doesn't happen on my 621s. it does on the av-40s. how can anyone mix with that?
Click to expand...

That would be fine if you are mixing for playback on Altec 621. Likely the reason you don't hear that on your 621s is because they are lying to you. If I had to guess which speakers were letting me hear the REAL sound vs. the HYPED sound, I would put my money on the M-Audio and give the Altecs to the kids.
 
the bass swells that i am trying to avoid can be heard in professionally mixed audio recordings as well. like... CDs.

honestly, i think the reason i dont hear that on my 621s is because a 6.5 inch woofer can handle those frequencies better than the m-audio's 4 inch. but then again... i'm not an audio pro.

621 frequency response goes down to 35hz, the m-audio is 85.
 
oh no, i definitely appreciate everyones advice! i think im going to do some more experimenting
 
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