FS7: I returned my XDCA-FS7 Extension and 7Q back to BH

JoeJITSU

JoeJITSU

Veteran
After hearing some reviews, I figured that I would not need them.

I will just buy a few more cards and some lens to go with her.
 
Yes, if I could get 10bit XAVC in my FS700 I would have zero need for a 7Q. If I could get the FS7 I would also be perfectly content with the internal recording. Them cards are mighty expensive though!
 
Did B&H hit you with a restocking fee?

Reason I ask is that I may risk buying the FS7 and testing the audio myself. But I want to be able to return it if the audio isn't as good as my EX1.
 
Not sure I understand your reluctance to keep your extension back and the 7Q, unless it was indeed a 7Q and not the 7Q+.
With the Extension back you can record ProRes internally. To me that's a real plus. You can jam sync TC and feed RAW out. And as an ancillary you can use big boy batteries. If none of festures is appealing, then perhaps you are on the right track. That's like a $4k savings and you now you have a lighter camera. A camera you are not using to its full potential. But again, that may not be applicable for your use.
The 7Q+ is another matter.
Those of us lucky enough to acquire the 7q+ recently were able to take advantage of the two free 256gb cards that were offered. I think that deal is still in place until the end of May.
But the 7Q+ offers other interesting festures.
One, it does ProRes and rumor has it it'll be capable of DNxHD in the near future.
If you bought it just for its monitor specs, it would be money well spent. It's a great monitor that records.
But the real take away is it has the capability of viewing up to 4 streams at once which is made in heaven for matching cameras.
But the real prize is later this summer, you will be able to RECORD dual or higher, streams on the same device at full Rez. That will be a paid upgrade, probably a grand but for that, you in effect now have two recorders in one.
Come on! That's fricking awesome.
 
One of the main advantages of using an Odyssey(aside from its recording capabilities) is the actual quality of the display and its exposure tools. Aside from Arri, I have yet to use a camera with accurate or intuitive exposure tools, don't get me started on color and screen size. This seems to be a learning process for a lot amateur filmmakers to understand how much of an impact a good quality monitor can have on their work. In this case for the FS7, I would consider the O7Q+ to be a no-brainer of an investment.
 
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allenfacemire said:
Not sure I understand your reluctance to keep your extension back and the 7Q, unless it was indeed a 7Q and not the 7Q+.
With the Extension back you can record ProRes internally. To me that's a real plus.
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While I agree with your other points, I was disappointed to discover that the XDCA-enabled ProRes recording is limited to 1080p. I found the lack of 4K ProRes to be a massive miss.
 
basspig said:
Compared to the Shogun, Oddyssy's display is antiquated and low resolution. Why would anyone monitor 4K video on a 1/2 HD monitor?
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One should never be fooled by a spec sheet. I have yet to find anyone who has tested the Odyssey7Q+ OLED screen, even alongside the competition, and walkaway with anything other than the impression that we deliver a top flight product. We are soon to release new firmware that adds even greater monitoring functionality.
 
Mitch Gross said:
One should never be fooled by a spec sheet. I have yet to find anyone who has tested the Odyssey7Q+ OLED screen, even alongside the competition, and walkaway with anything other than the impression that we deliver a top flight product. We are soon to release new firmware that adds even greater monitoring functionality.
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As an owner of an Odyssey 7Q+, I'll second what Mitch says. We have many monitors, 4k and HD, and the Odyssey screen is as sharp as any of them.
 
basspig said:
Compared to the Shogun, Oddyssy's display is antiquated and low resolution. Why would anyone monitor 4K video on a 1/2 HD monitor?
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Given that we're talking about recorder units, I don't think the first priority was for ACs to pull focus using it. The best ACs pull by gauging distance, anyways. And for wireless FF applications, there can still be a video village monitor to pull from, if need be. If anything, I would depend on a recorder to deliver recording features reliably, and would appreciate video scopes and tools above cramming tiny more pixels in there.
 
Antique? Share some wisdom . Whats your take on lcd vs oled and rec709 vs dci-p3 compliant color spaces? How about explaining pixel density given the size and typical viewing distance of the 7q and why your view differs from the vast resources regarding resolution elsewhere.
 
basspig said:
Compared to the Shogun, Oddyssy's display is antiquated and low resolution. Why would anyone monitor 4K video on a 1/2 HD monitor?
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I've spoken with several dealers who stock both, and they all say the 7Q blows the Shogun out of the water - as in not even in the same league.

With that said, I do love the 7Q as I use it to record a backup and for the monitoring tools, but it sure is taking CD a long time to really make it work properly with the FS7 XDCA - RAW and Pro-Res
 
Is the screen at least 1920x1080 pixels? The last time I checked the spec for Oddysey, it was 1280x720. In a world of 4K imaging, how can you tell if you're in critical focus when you must rely on such a screen? It's one of the reasons why I backed away from considering SmallHD's products. That screen is fine for SD shooting, but for 4K it's a joke. You wouldn't edit 4K on a 1080 display, so why would you shoot 4K on a 720 display? I don't get it.

OLEDs are interesting, and they have some benefits and some drawbacks. The color gamut is very wide, it uses less electricity, it's thin and flexible. The downside is organic LEDs are not stable, and they do experience burn in, and the colors can be exaggerated. But that aside, it's the resolution being absurdly low that just turns me off from this product (besides the expensive proprietary drives). Maybe it's okay for a large crew with a dedicated focus puller and a director's monitor that's 4K. Perhaps the intention was only to have menus and an approximate reference image for framing and comping purposes, but one-man shooters rely on the display to determine if a scene is critically focused. You're not going to be able to tell if a 8.5 megapixel image is in focus on a 1 megapixel display. You can get close, but it's rare that you can nail the focus without using aids like edge enhancement or colored outlines.

When I got the Shogun (which I use with my EX3 presently) I was delighted with the screen's ability to show me ALL of the picture I am shooting. When viewed from 14-18", it is easy to nail focus without resorting to any aids. I find the color accuracy to be excellent, albeit a bit on the greenish side without calibration. But Atomos hit a home run with that screen, and threw in a SDI recorder at no extra cost, for the cost of an inferior SmallHD monitor costing the same price.

I'm not saying that Oddysey is a bad product. It's fine for what it does, and if you need RAW recording, right at the moment, it's the only game in town. You'll just have to get a better monitor for focusing, or rely upon color outlines (yuck) to peak the focus. For my purposes, I prefer the Shogun. Atomos has a philosophy of making a good product and then lowering the price. Back when SDI recording was a $5K affair, they introduced the Samurai for $2K and made it possible for us unfunded shooters who work paycheck to paycheck, to have SDI and high quality CODECs. Each time they improve the technology and lower the prices, it gets better for us. And that screen is hard to beat. Well, maybe URSA, with its 10" 2.2 megapixel screen has a small size advantage, but nothing out there from any of the small monitor makers even comes close in my opinion.
 
basspig said:
Is the screen at least 1920x1080 pixels? The last time I checked the spec for Oddysey, it was 1280x720. In a world of 4K imaging, how can you tell if you're in critical focus when you must rely on such a screen? It's one of the reasons why I backed away from considering SmallHD's products. That screen is fine for SD shooting, but for 4K it's a joke. You wouldn't edit 4K on a 1080 display, so why would you shoot 4K on a 720 display? I don't get it.

OLEDs are interesting, and they have some benefits and some drawbacks. The color gamut is very wide, it uses less electricity, it's thin and flexible. The downside is organic LEDs are not stable, and they do experience burn in, and the colors can be exaggerated. But that aside, it's the resolution being absurdly low that just turns me off from this product (besides the expensive proprietary drives). Maybe it's okay for a large crew with a dedicated focus puller and a director's monitor that's 4K. Perhaps the intention was only to have menus and an approximate reference image for framing and comping purposes, but one-man shooters rely on the display to determine if a scene is critically focused. You're not going to be able to tell if a 8.5 megapixel image is in focus on a 1 megapixel display. You can get close, but it's rare that you can nail the focus without using aids like edge enhancement or colored outlines.

When I got the Shogun (which I use with my EX3 presently) I was delighted with the screen's ability to show me ALL of the picture I am shooting. When viewed from 14-18", it is easy to nail focus without resorting to any aids. I find the color accuracy to be excellent, albeit a bit on the greenish side without calibration. But Atomos hit a home run with that screen, and threw in a SDI recorder at no extra cost, for the cost of an inferior SmallHD monitor costing the same price.

I'm not saying that Oddysey is a bad product. It's fine for what it does, and if you need RAW recording, right at the moment, it's the only game in town. You'll just have to get a better monitor for focusing, or rely upon color outlines (yuck) to peak the focus. For my purposes, I prefer the Shogun. Atomos has a philosophy of making a good product and then lowering the price. Back when SDI recording was a $5K affair, they introduced the Samurai for $2K and made it possible for us unfunded shooters who work paycheck to paycheck, to have SDI and high quality CODECs. Each time they improve the technology and lower the prices, it gets better for us. And that screen is hard to beat. Well, maybe URSA, with its 10" 2.2 megapixel screen has a small size advantage, but nothing out there from any of the small monitor makers even comes close in my opinion.
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To each their own, I suppose.

Personally, I'd be just fine editing 4k on a 1080 monitor - you can always zoom in to check critical focus if there is a concern, and for the most part I'm concerned with composition and timing in editing, both of which will work just fine in 1080. Not to mention, many of your viewers, if not all of them, will see your 4k originated material in 1080 or less, so editing in 1080 will work fine. Certainly having a 4k monitor doesn't hurt, but it's extra cost that I don't see the need to incur immediately.

If the Shogun makes you happy, well, great. Others do seem to find the Odyssey more well rounded, but again, to each their own.

As for the proprietary drives on the Odyssey - my understanding is that very shortly they will support a select few 3rd party SSD drives that are far cheaper.

Generations of shooters have had to rely on low resolution viewfinders to compose, focus, and expose images. Generations of focus pullers have done it by instinct, and experience, eyeballing it. To have 720p and greater monitors to pull focus on is a relatively new luxury, and while many prefer it, it is by no means a requirement. But again, if it works for you, that's great.
 
basspig said:
It looks as though i can try the camera and, should i find the audio unsuitable, return it , meeting the conditipns below.
The app,icable aragraph:
  • All returned items must be in new condition, in their original unaltered box (including the UPC code being intact) and must include all packing material, blank warranty cards, manuals,and accessories.
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The "new" condition part might get you. I'm not sure they mean to permit you to take the camera out, try it, and put it back in. And remember, you'll start the hours meter, so much testing at all would show up.

Why not rent the camera once to make a decision?

Or, alternatively, visit a dealer and try out a demo camera on the shop floor.

And if that's not an option, you might still talk with a few dealers, and see if any of them would want to send you a demo unit for a day on the basis of winning your business. You might try to talk to the folks at EC Pro in New York, explain your concerns, and see what they might be willing to do for you.

To me, it's not new if you take it out of the box, turn it on, and play with the XLR ports. If I pay new price, I wouldn't want to receive a unit that had that happen.
 
Viddovation said:
The "new" condition part might get you. I'm not sure they mean to permit you to take the camera out, try it, and put it back in. And remember, you'll start the hours meter, so much testing at all would show up.

Why not rent the camera once to make a decision?

Or, alternatively, visit a dealer and try out a demo camera on the shop floor.

And if that's not an option, you might still talk with a few dealers, and see if any of them would want to send you a demo unit for a day on the basis of winning your business. You might try to talk to the folks at EC Pro in New York, explain your concerns, and see what they might be willing to do for you.

To me, it's not new if you take it out of the box, turn it on, and play with the XLR ports. If I pay new price, I wouldn't want to receive a unit that had that happen.
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good points. James, curious as I'm a fan of the f35/fs7- what do you find you are using mostly these days? If you were shooting a hip hop video, without seeing the treatment, and had to pick, which one would you pick? :)

or point me to a post where you might have discussed this, please :) thanks!
 
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