I really don't get it!

yeah let's keep it civil-ish

It's no excuse for some of the bluntness, but the idea of losing your SD clients because you shoot HD is pretty funny.

It was also mentioned that "down res" time was an issue.

Not really. A rendered HD timeline whips off to an identical codec master off FCP in minutes. Then burn your SD DVD the same way you would from an SD master. Time is about the same.

If your giving raw footage, different story. Unless you are working in a fast paced news enviroment, I'd say it's not an issue though. Put the stuff on to render. Get a good night's sleep, give the files to the client in the morning. Again if they need it at the end of the event, different issue. Of course the A1 would solve this - shoot tape for the folks that need it handed off right then. And the HVX would sove it as well if you can afford it,and edit best with the DVX.
 
Paladin said:
To Johnny Cola:

There is a difference between offering honest, well-intended advice and just being rude, inconsiderate and obnoxious. Perhaps you should try to learn that difference.
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Dude you're right, I was reading back my responses and... wow what an ass I must seem like :embarasse I'm sorry, I don't know what to say, I feel like such a douche; nothing more than an a-hole with an internet connection.
(I call that one patronizing and insincere, I'm getting pretty good at differentiating subtext, thnx for the tip!)

And actually I WAS being honest and well-intended, I threw in the rude, inconsiderate and obnoxious for sh!ts and giggles. You wanna know why? Probably not, but since you're still reading I'll tell you, to express how utterly absurd I feel some of what's being said is. I honestly feel that you guys are on the verge of staring at an abyss and going... "that's not an abyss, were fine, just keep moving forward..." The DVX is still capable of amazing images for what it is, but what it is... is woefully outdated. I can take a cheaper HD cam and make it look great, I CAN'T take a great DVX image and slap on a few extra hundredthousand pixels and it have it compete! So unless someone here can pull an Andromeda system out of their butts, it's time to move on. Why are you telling this man with a business and a family to support such inaccurate, and inconceivably bad information!!!
No one who has lived on both sides of the SD/HD transition is gonna say "GO BACK!!!! THE RESOLUTION IS MAKING MY EYES BLEED!!!!! OH THE DETAIL!!!!!"
If you don't listen to me at least listen to Jack and Kholi. I know to you I'm just an a-hole with an internet connection, but certainly you respect their opinions.
BUT YOU KNOW WHAT BOTHERS ME THE MOST and what I find completely confounding is, if there is a way to make your work SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER, WTF?!!!! WHY WOULDN'T YOU DO IT!
 
Hd

Hd

HD? Its all a scam to make more money. People with the money decide it is important to make a larger profit and push HD on the rest as "necessary" to our viewing experience. It also adds a new snob factor...until it is replaced by the next format wherein more money will be made by the people at the top when HD cycles out in 50 20 or however many years. HD is just like any product...people are told that they cannot live without it when, in fact, they have been.

I have an HD camera and HD TV and HD programming and i'm not impressed. Maybe for sports and discovery channel nature Sh*t but unless you are making the next watchmen, whats the point? Something to obsess about when you have nothing else to worry about.
 
Captain Pierce said:
I don't think the OP is talking about the independent film world, but rather the event/corporate video world, which IMO is at least a somewhat different world if not an entirely different world. And since the event/corporate world is the world I do my video work in, let me try and come at this from that angle.
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You hit my nail on the head. JDS I will not get a D90 even if it means not having the ability to use all of my nikkor lenses. The GH-1 idea is great as I would like to migrate to a stills/video camera so when the video side of the company is making normal video and can be taking the stills and switching over to the video side to capture something artistic and at that moment. In event photo/video, we do not set up a lot of the shots but capture them in the natural state.

I checked the prices of the HC150 and I cannot afford a $3k plus camera right now so a used 100b will have to suffice for now. One of the main interests for me was syncing the time code between cameras. Maybe that is over rated but I thought it could help when it comes to editing music and dance recitals. Again, I am a simple guy making simple videos of kids and adults for their personal record. I am not creating independent films, documentaries or commercials nor do I plan to. I will leave that up to you guys.

All of this advice is well received, appreciated and thought about. Sadly for me, when I read these posts I am a little tired from a day of clients and my thinking is not the sharpest. As the Duncan Doughnut guy used to say when he awoke early in the morning "time to render the raw images".
 
houstenje I feel similar. This HDTV hit so fast and the TVs were really not there yet. There is so many problems in color range and gamut that it sickens me. The contrast ranges are from about 500 to 20,000 (please do not correct me as it is a point only). Some of the TVs do not have the imaging processing correct and distort the image so badly. Even in my area, the local broadcasts have one show with the top and bottom bars and the next has bars on all sides. Then the screen image sizes are inconsistent one show or commercial to another.

The problem is we cannot turn back the clock. I am trying to keep my eye out for those high dollar CRT HDTVs that are popping up on the used market. Then I feel I can finally find the correct monitor to look back at my work and see if the image quality is great. I could go out and buy the latest LCD or Plasma and never know if the colors are accurate.

Yes, I understand there are calibration technicians out there (expensive) and different types of stick it on the monitor calibrators (I have three from $200 to $800) but I feel it should not have gotten so difficult to view good color especially out of the box.
 
I forgot to mention ... JDS, Johnny Cola and a few others ... evidently YOU DO GET IT. Good for you guys. Seriously. But I am just not there yet. I do believe HD is great to view when it is created and finished properly but I am not there nor will I be in the next year or so.
 
houstonje said:
HD? Its all a scam to make more money. People with the money decide it is important to make a larger profit and push HD on the rest as "necessary" to our viewing experience. It also adds a new snob factor...until it is replaced by the next format wherein more money will be made by the people at the top when HD cycles out in 50 20 or however many years. HD is just like any product...people are told that they cannot live without it when, in fact, they have been.

I have an HD camera and HD TV and HD programming and i'm not impressed. Maybe for sports and discovery channel nature Sh*t but unless you are making the next watchmen, whats the point? Something to obsess about when you have nothing else to worry about.
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Right! When motion pictures moved form the nickelodeons to the big screen - SCAM. Then came those devious sting operations "Talkies" followed by (gasp) Color! HD is a scam just like those advancements right?

Oh how I long for the days of the nickelodeons!

Please remember that all of this HD stuff is about bringing video which is more affordable than film into a ballpark with film. Both on the shooter and audience level. Cheaper / more accessible technology to make narrative work that competes with film, and the possibility of having a more theater-like experience at home.

If it was 100% a scam then why bother with HD and not just demand that to be good it always has to be on film. Why not make HD TV sets only call them FR (FILM RESOLUTION) TV sets.

HD is a better. More versitale tool. Period. I am impressed with what I can do with my HVX compared to my DVX. I am impressed with my HD television.

And heaven forbid someone would make something better and try to market it, create demand, and make money off of it. What a scam.

Also perception is reality. And if the market place and those that are buying content thinking about the future create a demand for it, then it really means nothin that you think it's a scam. You need the product that is in demand.

Why do you have an HD cam and TV if the stuff if is such a scam?

Do you think furs are immoral but wear them?

Do you think fashion trends are scams but wear the latest expensive designer jeans?

Why-oh-why did you waste your hard earned money on an HD camera and TV if they are uneccesary and you are unimpressed by them?

Say it with me people "I JUST DON't GET IT."
 
Jack Daniel Stanley said:
So why even ask?
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Because I thought the prices were sub $3k. And if the last post was in reference to me... I am not purchasing a HD camera anytime soon and I am not buying a HDTV LCD flatscreen. I am going to sit back, accept that I cannot keep up with the big dogs and milk as much money as I can while I can with what I have. And I appreciate the ebay examples but I do not think I will worry about opening and closing a lens before every shot like I used to with my Sinar 4x5 and Korona 8x10 camera. No more screw mount lens with the open to view and manual stop down for me again unless for some reason the customer is paying for that experience. The up to date, forward thinking, HD agreeing people are right so we can end this and bow our SD heads while we still accept our limited time paychecks from our out of date thinking customers who should really be thinking in HD only and get with it. Now I am starting to feel sorry for the 65% of the americans that have not fully converted to HD. Yes it will happen just as we all have cellphones and computers.
 
Have we all forgotten what I said in the second place?

"I would like the answer from the "average Joe" video guy who makes simple utilitarian video for customers who only want so spend $25.00 on a 2 hour DVD".

I was not trying to stir up a flame war between the film festival / commercial guys and the budget video guys like myself. I was only trying to find out a meager and simple guy based "why".

I think I will stay away from any possible film festivals because after this ... I just do not feel worthy (not that I was planning on going anyways :) )
 
accentphotography said:
Because I thought the prices were sub $3k.
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USED A1 $2700
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/447098-REG/Canon_1191B001_XH_A1_3CCD_HDV_Camcorder.html

NEW HMC-150, $3500, no shopping around, first one I found, a used one would be less than 3K probably.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/575992-REG/Panasonic_AG_HMC150_AG_HMC150_AVCCAM_Camcorder.html

GH1! Less than $1500!!!!!! WITH really nice 14 -105 mm lens optimized for video with silent zoom, etc.
kitted out for $2k with LCD eye loupe, extra bats etc. Less than 2k :shocked:

Average price used HVX200A on ebay $3069 as per their stats. Now you're talking. DVCproHD and you can shoot tape SD and edit it with your DVX like a breeze. I sold my HVX200(non A) with a bag, training DVD's an 8gb p2 card, lens hood, extra batteries for $3000 on ebay in January. THis would really be a great option for you because you've basically bought a DVX with true widescreen that you can flip a switch and have a great professional, higher color space HD codec on. It's like buying another DVX and an HD camera.

And remember as of this years NAB, much much much lower priced P2 cards.
And if the last post was in reference to me... I am not purchasing a HD camera anytime soon and I am not buying a HDTV LCD flatscreen. I am going to sit back, accept that I cannot keep up with the big dogs and milk as much money as I can while I can with what I have.
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No that was in reference to the guy that said HD was a scam and that he owned and HD camera and an HD TV.

And I appreciate the ebay examples but I do not think I will worry about opening and closing a lens before every shot like I used to with my Sinar 4x5 and Korona 8x10 camera. No more screw mount lens with the open to view and manual stop down for me again unless for some reason the customer is paying for that experience...
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If you're talking about manipulating the iris in the lens, there's a way around that. If you're talking about something else, then you've got me.

BTW here's my editing monitoring setup.
COMPUTER:
Intel Powerbook, 2.67 GHZ, 4GB ram, before that, comparable Imac, before that G4 1.67 laptop. Even the G4 did ok. It did suck when I got into compositing / working with the new Motion. That's when I upgraded to the imac.

MONITOR:
Acer 1080 21.5" LCD monitor ($180)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...rs+-+LCD+Flat+Panel-_-Acer+America-_-24009157

CALIBRATION:
My solution for consistent color?
Pantone Huey Pro. $109 (@ B&H, but you can get it on Amazon much cheaper.)
Sticks on your screen, reads the color in its little eyeball, calibrates it, auto calibrates as you adjust thelights in your room:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/485807-REG/Pantone_MEU113_HueyPRO_Colorimeter.html
Is it as good as a Trinitron HD? No. Have I ever been surprised seeing my work on big screens at Film Festivals or various friends and family HD screens? No.

And of course some hard drives, audio interface, and balanced speakers, but that's the same fo SD & HD.
 
accentphotography said:
The up to date, forward thinking, HD agreeing people are right so we can end this and bow our SD heads while we still accept our limited time paychecks from our out of date thinking customers who should really be thinking in HD only and get with it. Now I am starting to feel sorry for the 65% of the americans that have not fully converted to HD.
Click to expand...

Ok I'll be nice, I'm gonna totaly ignore some blantantly ignorant posts and focus on you. I'm really not hear to hurt anyones feelings. For lack of a better term I have a Simon Cowel type of personality, I'm blunt and my jokes can come across like I'm trying to shank somebody, but I'm not, I just find cynicism entertaining.

I am not superior to you, I don't feel that way, I don't think that way, and if I sound that way it's because you posed the question and freely admited that you didn't get it. And when you got people who supported your way of doing work you were quick to reject advice from people who have experienced what YOU wanted to know about, or atleast claimed to. If you just wanted a cheering section telling you "way to go, what you're doing rox!"... Well... I guess you came to the right place, this is DVXUser after all, LOL. HOWEVER! The people who told you HD is the right route and the time was like yesterday, have ALL had HUGE amounts of experience creating great work with the DVX!
I know people WITH NO EXPERIENCE will readily argue about this next point, but even consumer HD cameras are capable of producing better images. I know a bunch of people that couldn't afford prosumer HD cams and went with sub $1000 consumer HD cams from the DVX because they saw a marked improvement. For the price of a used DVX100b you could build a smoking fast PC and buy a new consumer HD cam and do some of the best looking work you have ever done. YES EVEN IF THE FINAL DELIVERY IS SD. HD acquisition produces better SD quality output. PERIOD!
If you truly believe that DVX100b is the way to go, do it. I'm just really surprised at the amount of professionals this LATE in the game that don't see the value, financially, technically or artistically.
 
I have no ill will towards the DVX, as I've used one in the past and loved the images it created. But, as Jack Daniel has suggested, a used HVX200 or 200A would be a great way to go if you can find one in your budget. As an XHA1 user, I also recommend that camera as well. Honestly, the 20x zoom lens is really good, and while it won't give you as much DoF as an adapter, it is capable of a lot more DoF control than a stock lens on a 1/3 under $4,000 camera has any right to be. The 20x zoom is really handy for wedding receptions when you are in a big church, especially compared to the DVX's 10x zoom. Also, don't worry about the XHA1s, it doesn't have anything worth the extra cost. You can get a new A1 for $3,000 and used ones in the $2,500 to $2,800 range. Of course, if you can deal with the AVC-HD workflow, the HMC150 is a good camera as well for about $3,500.

As for the GH1, it is only $1,500 which is about what a Red Rock, Brevis, Letus Ultimate, or SGPro adapter package will cost. You could always use the GH1 as a B or C camera next to your main camera as well, and you'll be getting a good digital stills camera to boot.

Good luck either way.
 
Johnny Cola said:
I'm just really surprised at the amount of professionals this LATE in the game that don't see the value, financially, technically or artistically.
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I do agree with that. I was not looking for a cheering section of a pat on the back but I was needing a little enlightenment (and I definitely got it). Everything is all good on this end. And as far as the owning a HD camera ... I have one. I guess the problem is that is shoots 60i in DV and at 1080i in HDV. I have never had a good success in my type of work with anything interlaced. I am sure there is some type of wonder filter that will do a good job converting it but I have not found it yet (or at least anything fairly affordable to me).

JDS ... thank you for the info on your setup. Sometimes it is good to know what others have just to know if they are happy with what they are using and if it is within reach. The GH1 has really perked my interest. Of course it will be so 2009'ties next year but what the heck. I have already lost so much money annually on my DSLRs that I am getting used to it.

The only consultation for my old, manual Hasselblad film cameras is that they still fetch a great price on the Asian market. Too bad it does not work like that with DSLR an Digital Video equipment.
 
Nektonic ... I am looking at the GH1 as a C camera. But is it too much work to bring in a AVC-HD or what ever SD codec it uses into FCP with the video from the DVX100?
 
accentphotography said:
... The GH1 has really perked my interest. Of course it will be so 2009'ties next year but what the heck. I have already lost so much money annually on my DSLRs that I am getting used to it.
...
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True in a sense - but now that the prices are getting this low ($1400). Sell your GH1 next year on ebay for $700 when they come out with the GH1A or 2 or whatever and by the new one for $1400. You've basically paid $700 to use the camera for a year and now you've upgraded for an additional $700 and you are still up with the jones's. Now you've bought a camera, sold it, upgraded and all tolled still haven't broke $2400. Plus your kit is all transferable, your lenses, adapters, etc.
 
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