I need a better job and some professional advice

roxics

roxics

Veteran
I know that no one is going to tell me what kind of money they make. But it would be nice to know what the average salary is for someone doing what I do. I'm starting to feel either underpaid or in the wrong business.

I currently work at a web media company where I've been for the last 3+ years. Myself and a buddy of mine (who does audio) handle all the audio/video production for the company. Everything from corporate talking head videos for web and DVD to local TV commercials. We're a two man crew that does nearly everything. I've worked with some big clients and the biggest advertising agencies in the world. I've also shot and directed some pretty important local people, including a former mayor and other local celebrates. One of my shoots coming up here in the next couple of months will include shooting the governor.
But we don't freelance for the company, we're on the payroll (salary).

Generally speaking I love my job, I get to do all sorts of things. I handle everything from preproduction, production to post production. Meeting with clients, fleshing out their vision, storyboards, talent releases, shooting, directing and lighting on location (including greenscreen work). Then do all the post production editing and after effects motion graphics creation and animation.
Then the final mastering to web, DVD or TV broadcast.

I make under 34k a year and have to pay for all my own gas. My boss also typically denies any new equipment requests I have. He doesn't see the benefit to it. So I can't get a decent lighting kit. I don't have any flags, scrims, gels and even a low end video tripod from manfrotto for $400 is out of the question. Instead I get a cheapo tripod off craigslist my boss paid $60 for. Yet I've seen some of the prices we charge for our "services" and some of these projects push over $100k, with 90% of the work being done by myself and my audio guy.

I'm 30 years old. I've been shooting and editing since I was twelve. I don't have a college degree but I do have a feature film and several short films I've written and directed under my belt. I also am fluent and stay current with new video technology, codecs and have a background in photography and film. I've worked with various formats, having shot 16mm, super 8, video 8, VHS, DV, HDV, DVCAM and AVCHD. Including editing all of those formats and way more. Plus now I have over 3 years of professional on the job experience working with clients, directing talent and everything else at the helm of the video department.

Generally speaking our clients either like or love my work. There are a few however that haven't turned out great. As is the case with any creative medium. Which I think is to be expected.

I guess I'm just curious if someone could give me an idea where I should be. I mean I come on these forums and I see pros here all the time who seem to all personally own the latest and greatest cameras. Even RED cameras. Right now I'd be scrounging for months just to afford even a $1000 video camera of my own. For some reason it just doesn't seem right. Obviously I'm either making way less then everyone else here in some way or another or I'm completely confused on what people here are actually doing professionally.

So if anyone (any real professional here) has any advice they can give me. Or at the very least tell me where I'm at on the scale of things, then maybe I can figure out just where I fit in the grand scheme and make any moves I might need to make. Somehow I'm just getting the impression that I'm making about 10-15k less then what I should be making for everything I do. Maybe I'm wrong. All I know is I do a lot and seem to make the company a decent amount of money, yet I'm living paycheck to paycheck After child support, taxes and insurance I'm seeing about $1400 a month. With that I have all my bills to pay for, rent, food, gas, cell phone, ect. Yet I see a lot of you on here who seem to jump at buying the newest $3000 camera the minute it comes out. Maybe even two of them. I can't even dream about doing that.

I know the economy is rough so I've been kind of just holding on to see what happens. Glad to even have a job and even more happy to have a job I like. But then it dawned on me that even when the economy shapes up I still have no idea where I fit or fall on the scale of things.

Thanks.
 
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i'm unemployed going into my 3rd month. i'm 33, and my 4 year old doesn't know what it all means. i'd kill for your job right now. but i know what you mean.
 
Dude, I feel ya... trust me I do. I know several very close friends that have worked at "Media" production houses in the Detroit area, and you are paid about on par for that kind of job. The problem with that area is that Specs Howard, and UofM and Eastern and all of the other schools in the area are pushing out "Media Production" grads every year that will work for less than you are getting paid, and bosses like yours, know that.

It is a tough trap. To make any real kind of money, you need to be doing what your boss is doing, own a production house and go out and make deals to produce content for others. Like you said though, you are living paycheck to paycheck, so how do you get the cash to cut out on your own? I don't know... I am still struggling to do that. You got a rich uncle that will invest in your production business? No?... yeah me neither.

I would suggest that you put together some good resumes and sample reels and maybe look around for a better job. Of course I would look around (on the web and such) for job hunting tips and tailor your resume and reels for each company you are talking to. It is tough times, but hitting the bricks and looking around my land you a better gig.

It is my understanding that there is a lot of movie production going on in Michigan now because of the states film incentive program. However, most of that production seems to be coming from Hollywood productions coming in and doing large, highly structured fictional narrative shoots. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the media production you have been doing, the one man band style video work, does not necessarily give you a skill set that would be in demand from these types of productions. If you were interested in getting into working on the movies that are being made in Michigan, I would suggest hooking up with the Detroit IATSE local (the film technician union) and asking them what you should do to get work. Some folks I have worked with in the past are stewards with the IATSE local and they are real good people. I am sure that they would help you out.

Now, trying to get into the film technician business, which means freelance, is tough also. What is the old saying, "Feast or famine" and can be a tough road. However, most of the folks I have talked to have told me that there is a good bit of work to go around, so that might be a way to go. You will need to understand that if you get into this kind of production, you will need to prove yourself on the "Strong back, weak mind" kind of jobs first. If you prove yourself to be reliable, hard working, flexible and able to get the job done, then there should not be any reason that you could not move into jobs with more and more responsibility, and learn a higher demand skill set. From the folks I know up there, the ones that work the most, and appear to making some decent coin, are the camera assistants and the gaffer/electricians. The gaffer/electricians are constantly working. If you are interested in doing that, I would talk to the IATSE local about that or call Detroit Power and Light (a grip/lighting house) and ask them. Their # is 248.476.3737. They are in the studio center in Farmington Hills. If you are interested in becoming a camera assistant, I would call Stratton Camera, also in Farmington Hills, 248.427.6400 and ask them how you would go about doing that in the Detroit area. You will want to talk to Lon, but good luck with that.

I hope that helps. This is a rough business, no doubt, but I always remember a bit of advice from a friend of mine from back in the day. "If you want things to change....Change things!"

Good luck brutha!!
 
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Yet I've seen some of the prices we charge for our "services" and some of these projects push over $100k, with 90% of the work being done by myself and my audio guy.
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Plain and simple, it sounds like you're underpaid and need to talk to your boss.
 
I agree that you are vastly underpaid. This economy, especially in your location make it tough. But I think a 50% pay increase would put you on the low end of fair. The one thing I would suggest is perhaps trying to find some clients on the side while maintaining your employment. You got to pay the bills. IF you do not have any gear, you certainly can rent all that you need. Sure it will cut into your profits, gut a percentage less of your new revenue is still much better than the alternative. If you have the skills, and the hustle you will find people willing to give you a chance. It will take some time, and some sleep deprived weeks. But you will get to the point where the numbers no longer make any sense to stay where you are. Once that is the case you have the leverage to approach your boss and give him a bit of an ultimatum. If he wants your specific skills he will pay you more. Or you could work there part time at a better rate. Or you will find you can make what you are currently making by getting gigs, grinding it out, but making far more for the time invested. It is scary right now. But that also creates opportunity to find clients that may be more willing in the past to hire somebody solid, and a touch cheaper, than a bigger production company.
 
Well... 34k a year is tough anywhere. But as Skinny said, he'd kill for that job. How many others are standing in line right behind him?

Your boss has the ability to land the jobs. Whether it's you doing them, or some other intern or fresh-off-the-streets kid or whatever, isn't all that relevant, it's the boss who's landing the jobs, and therefore taking the big paycheck. If you can do what he does, then you'd have a case for going out on your own. But going out on your own and trying to steal the clients your boss had is some nasty bad karma that can really, really backfire, so be cautious about that.

So are you saying that you're going out and doing jobs by yourself, for which the boss is being paid $100,000? There's something not adding up there. Is that $25,000 for production and $75,000 for airtime, that the boss has to go spend with the stations?

All the rates I'm about to quote you are about 5-10 years out of date; someone who's doing the daily grind right now should update them as necessary:

Commercials are feast-or-famine, as is pretty much all freelance and all corporate work. Back when I was doing corporate films (image pieces, company training films, etc) I could get a budget of $10,000 to $20,000 each, and my expenses would usually add up to about $3,000 to $4,000 for crew & supplies, so... yeah, do one of those every month or two and you'll make a hundred grand a year. But you have to have the clients, the reel, and the negotiating skills to land those jobs. You'll be marketing, supervising, producing, paying, and doing all post, but it's not a bad living at all. You just have to have the skills to make it all happen, and the ability to land the clients.

Work freelance on someone else's production and you can get $100 to $500 a day for most jobs; on a "real" production the pay usually starts at no lower than $300/day for jobs such as prompter operator, grip, sound, etc. Prompter operator is the easiest job in the world, if you can type fast and you have a little hand/eye/ear coordination so you can keep on top of the text and deliver the lines to the reader when they need 'em. I did prompter for a little while, for Sheena Easton, Brian McKnight, Penn & Teller, Bill Dance, etc. It was embarrassingly easy work, but it's important to get it right. I didn't even have my own gear, and I'd get $300 to $400/day. Buy your own prompter and you can add kit rental fees on top of that. Work 10 days a month and you're already earning more than you do at your current job, plus you have 20 days "off" per month...

Sound, if you've got your own gear, can get $450/day without much of a struggle. If you're good, with a great personality, not a primadonna, work hard and cooperate, people will hire you over and over. Land a couple of three-day or four-day jobs per month and your whole month is paid.

Even so, with all the freelance jobs, you're probably looking at maybe 5 to 10 days of work per month. But five days of $500/day would be about as much as you're making for a full month's work where you're at.

For commercials, I did everything from little one-man-band type stuff like you're doing, up to $300k infomercials. For the one-man-band stuff I'd charge $1500 for those, and that was for write/shoot/edit; it'd take a day, maybe two, for everything. So average of $1000/day. No expenses because I owned all my own gear and did all the work, it was truly "one man band." But it's a tough grind to get clients. Bigger commercials for regional advertisers would be maybe $8,000 to $25,000 for a package of four or five simple commercials, like you see for colleges and technical training schools. You'd have one to three shoot days, with some crew, but even so, on a $25,000 package my expenses were usually under about $10,000, so if you can put it together you'll clear $15k of profit... not bad, even if you only did one every two months you'd still be yanking down $180k gross. The freelancers are happy because they get their day rates, and you're paid well because you made the job happen and you kept the client extremely happy.

Big commercials usually require a big ad agency. I worked on a few $100k to $250k commercials in various capacities, we bid on a few of those and made it a ways into the bidding but in the end, they almost always go with the full-service agency. It's tough to land a job like that as a standalone production company without the full-service agency behind you, with all their political connections and the string-pulling that goes on behind the scenes, with their relationships with the stations, with the leverage they hold over the crew because they're relatively major employers of the freelancers, etc. Absolutely stuff like this happens: "roxics, you're good, and I hire you a lot, but if you ever go work for Prairieboy, that's the last you'll ever work for me." If the agency is handing roxics 10 days of work a month, you'd better believe he'll think twice or three times before jeopardizing that relationship!

Half-hour or hour-long infomercials are another prospect, but it's tough to find a client who's willing to pay what they should; last one I worked on had about a $300k budget.

So the big question you have to ask yourself is: can you land clients? If you can, and you've got the proverbial brass cojones to go out on your own, and you're sure you can do it now, then maybe it's time for you to take the leap. If you can land clients, you should be able to easily meet or beat what you're getting paid now.

But then there's the age-old adage: "don't quit your day job." If you're not sure, and you're living on the edge as-is, then can you afford the risk of going into competition with your prior boss? Because, make no mistake, that bridge will be burnt and it'll be burnt hard and crispy and toasty and incinerated to ashes. Don't be surprised if you get badmouthed, talked down, etc...

Also -- if you do decide to go into business for yourself, don't be a fool thinking "I can do it so much cheaper!" That's a sure way to run out of business. If you go to a company that used to give work to your ex-boss, and you say "I know you paid $60,000 for that last commercial, but trust me, I'm the guy who did all the work and I can do your next one for only $8,000" you better be ready to be laughed out of the building. Even if what you're saying is true. There's a perception of value attached, and they'll simply think "1/8th the price??? This kid is full of himself, has an overinflated ego and has no idea what he's talking about." Whereas if you said "I used to work for that shop, I did a lot of the work that went into your spot, and I've set up my own company. Our overhead is lower; I could do a similar spot for you for under $53,000" then ... hmmm.... they'll start thinking "maybe..." And so, yeah, you do the spot for $8,000 of expenses, and pocket the $45k profit, the client's happy, you're deliriously happy, and all's well that ends well.

Until your ex-boss hunts you down and shoots you for stealing his client, of course... or sues you for stealing confidential information, etc. Client lists, particulars of the financing of his client spots, etc., are probably covered under some sort of confidential information/trade secret document you had to sign.

So, the alternative is that you could go to your boss and lay out what you laid out for us -- you're working hard, you do all the stuff, and you're barely making it as-is, and you really need a raise. He might just say "okay, here's another $15k, thanks for the great job you've done" and then you're happy. Or, he might say "forget it, get out of here, don't let the door hit you on the way out, I'm gonna go hire that Skinny guy for a thousand bucks less than you were making." You'd better be prepared for that risk. But, then again, I think you'd be a hundred times more justified in soliciting business from prior clients in that scenario! You might have to wait a year before you can approach any of your ex-boss's clients though, if there's any sort of noncompete clause in your employment agreement.
 
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Well... 34k a year is tough anywhere. But as Skinny said, he'd kill for that job. How many others are standing in line right behind him?
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Very true. But one thing I've learned in the professional world...there may be a long line of people wanting that job...but there is probably not a long line of competent, quality, qualified, hard working people wanting that job. (in normal times, not counting a real world 15%+ unemployment rate).

It's hard to ask for a raise in a recession, as Barry mentioned the boss could say 'screw you' and fire you and easily find somebody to replace you.

But if you have a way out, don't mind taking the chance of being fired, then go ask for that raise. If the boss is any sort of competent business man, then he should realize what he has in a qualified worker and would hate to get rid of you.
 
You didn't mention if you have a health plan or any other benefits. If not then you are definitely underpaid. But at least you have a job when many don't.

You also have to look at it from the management point of view. I don't know the details you haven't given us but there are a lot of expenses and headaches with owning the business. Running your own business is two and a half full time jobs; Job One is actually getting the work; Job Two is doing the work; Job Three is managing the business. Even when there's not much work you just spend more time looking for clients/work. And the final responsibilities are all yours when you're the boss, from taxes to unhappy clients.

Again, I know nothing of your personal life. Your personal situation makes a huge difference when you make decisions. It's a lot easier to quit a job and strike out on your own when you're single; having a wife, kids, mortgage, etc. changes the whole equation.
 
patssle said:
It's hard to ask for a raise in a recession, as Barry mentioned the boss could say 'screw you' and fire you and easily find somebody to replace you.
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that's exactly why i'm unemployed...but my request wasn't unreasonable. i took a huge paycut 3 months earlier, and i tried to live with it, but i had no savings left, so i asked to be brought back to where i was, and he let me go.

could have solved it with a 2nd job, but that's the catch...i was on call 24/7 aside from my 40-50 hrs. guess there was no choice for my ex boss.

EDIT: i was his only employee.
 
Barry_Green said:
Your boss has the ability to land the jobs. Whether it's you doing them, or some other intern or fresh-off-the-streets kid or whatever, isn't all that relevant, it's the boss who's landing the jobs, and therefore taking the big paycheck. If you can do what he does, then you'd have a case for going out on your own. But going out on your own and trying to steal the clients your boss had is some nasty bad karma that can really, really backfire, so be cautious about that.
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Couldn't agree with Barry more on that -
I can tell you that what you're making is pretty much in line with what I was making when I worked production gigs in radio and TV (well, radio paid less actually).
Of course that was also quite a few years ago - so I'm not sure if you're being underpaid now or not.

But there is no getting around it - working a salaried job gives you a lot of things that working for yourself doesn't - while you may only make 34K a year,
I'm guessing you have health insurance of some kind... your boss is also paying for half of your social secuity, FICA, FUTA, etc... as well as paying unemployment taxes based on your salary.

That may not sound like a lot - but trust me, it's a rude awakening if you're not used to it when you make the leap to working on your own.
It becomes quickly evident that the take home pay was only one part of what you were getting out of a salaried position.

The other thing you get is stability - at least you know what you're getting coming in every month, and you can plan accordingly.
Given the current economic state (which as far as I know has hit Michigan pretty hard) that is definitley something to consider.

All that said - yes, if you can bring in the work, like Barry mentioned, you can definitely make much more on your own -
as long as you have your own network of contacts, the skills, and the discipline to get the jobs and run a business.

I can't tell you which direction you should go - but I do know that the way things are right now, I'm very very glad that my wife works for a governmental entity,
because it's helping to offset the uncertainty of freelance work.

Point is - don't make any rash decisions.
And if you do decide to leave your job - don't do so without a specific plan outlining goals for the coming year, and how you plan to reach them.
And realize that while working for yourself can be very rewarding - it's also a lot more work than working for someone else, because all responsibility is on you.

That's my two cents anyhow.
 
The company I worked for laid off the entire office in this city 4 months ago. I have been unemployed ever since and have a 3 1/2 month old Daughter. While I am collecting unemployment ($200 per week) I decided this is the time to just jump in and start my own thing. Instead of moaning and complaining about my situation I decided I am going to turn it around to my advantage. $34k for a 30 year old with no degree is about right if you ask me. I was making $40-$45k when I got laid off and I am 33. But if you want to make more you need to push yourself more and be willing to risk more. I'm risking everything right now but I'm so damned stubborn I refuse to believe I will fail. So you gotta either want it bad enough to kill for it or might as well enjoy what you are getting now because there are a lot of us out here that don't have that. Try looking at $200 a week after child support (my Son from another) and $700 rent due. Trust me... it could be a lot worse, I know. I can't even buy a $200 mic for my camera without saving for months and maybe selling stuff. Look at the alternative and decide if you are willing to go through it.
 
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$700 rent??...where do you live?

in all seriousness, you have an uphill battle man, and i definately feel for you. i'm 33 also, and my daughter is 4, been happily married 7 years, now living rent free with my inlaws...sh!t...i feel for you
 
skinny! said:
that's exactly why i'm unemployed...but my request wasn't unreasonable. i took a huge paycut 3 months earlier, and i tried to live with it, but i had no savings left, so i asked to be brought back to where i was, and he let me go.

could have solved it with a 2nd job, but that's the catch...i was on call 24/7 aside from my 40-50 hrs. guess there was no choice for my ex boss.

EDIT: i was his only employee.
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Did you get unemployment? If not, what was his excuse?
 
DJDecay said:
Does he drive an S-Class Mercedes to work - What kind of a car?
(please answer that, this will tell me many things.)
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Every time I see my dentist's Maserati I think I pay too much for dental insurance. Sorry for digressing.
 
DJDecay said:
Dental service rates are out of control. Out of control. Atlest the hospitals and HMO's duke it out, dental insurance or dental discount programs are just a waste if you need any serious work over $1k-$2k and its not a pre-existing condition.
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I just broke a crown... thanks for reminding me! I won't be smiling for my Xmas pics this year! :cry:
 
In NYC I've had some Brillant After Effects/FCP people report your salary (living in NYC) working for a Major outfit that will be *unnamed*. You've seen their work on the screen.
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How exactly does one live in NYC for 34k?
 
I think the term "stealing" clients is pretty harsh, as is the whole idea of Bad Karma. Unless the OP goes out and slanders his the boss and portrays him as dishonest in order to grab a piece of the pie, then there's nothing wrong with going out and trying to start his own business and target some of the same clients.
 
Thank you all for your replies. I really appreciate it. I don't want to give too much away about the company I work for. But the video department is just a small section of it. We are two of about 50 employee who do other things. The company doesn't make all of it's money from video productions. Just a certain portion of it. So I do understand that it takes money to pay our health insurance and all the other things that business owners have to pay into.

At least I have an idea now of where I stand. Although I did get mixed results but I guess that's to be expected. What I've gotten out of this however is that the only way to really make any real money is to go out on my own, charge a fair market rate and work my butt off to get clients and make them happy.

To be honest I'd love to do that but would certainly need the initial capital to make it happen. And although I have a job and I'm happy to have it, I'm still rubbing two pennies together and like you all said my boss knows it. So I'm not going anywhere for a while.

I'm really hoping the film industry starts to take off more around here. Maybe more opportunities will open up. But then again, we might just be saturated with that kind of talent.
 
Don't wait for it to take off... make it yourself if you can. Just live below your means and it works out. I'm managing to make things work at $200 a week. Granted my Lady has to work but some day it will turn in my favor. Like playing poker... you win some and lose some but you will always get a good hand at some point as long as you keep playing.
 
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