I just got kicked out for using the wrong mics. What did I do wrong?

M

mustangranch99

Active member
Today, I was getting together my standard gear set. Boom, Senn MKH 416s, Sound Devices recorder, and some other things.

I was with a high end production studio who'd done quite a few shoots with this set up and said they had flawless results. They kept telling me it was "the industry standard."

However, upon arriving at the client's studio (A beverage company I will not name), the producer and director asked us what mics we were using. We hadn't started recording yet.

We already told their office earlier we were bringing MKH 416's since it's an exterior shoot and confirmed this with their secretary. However, when we repeated this to them at the set, THEY FLIPPED OUT.

They said:

"Why would you bring that ancient mic to a professional shoot? I had my secretary look up that mic and she told me it was over 40 YEARS OLD. She managed to find a better version of it called the MKH 60 within 5 minutes. WHY WOULDN'T YOU BRING THAT? YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO CALL YOURSELF A PROFESSIONAL STUDIO AND YOU CAN'T EVEN ADAPT TO THE NEW INDUSTRY STANDARD?"

He kept going on and ON about how bad it was and how we should have known better. He terminated our contract and now my boss is saying we might sue him.

I don't understand what I did wrong. Is the 416 really that bad and out of date now? We'd never lost a gig because of our equipment, but if the 416s are old news, should we just replace all of ours with MKH 60s?
 
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No telling what got into that guy's craw. That was about as ridiculous and unprofessional as it could have been. The 416 is still in wide use, still considered an industry standard (there can be more than one). Yes, there are newer mics around, but the 416 isn't obsolete despite its long run.
 
This is no one you want to work for regardless. If you got past this piss-off, there would be another later. Likely there was an agenda by the producer-director to ditch you and do something else. That story sounds pretty bogus, especially since it was previously communicated. If they wanted different equipment, they should have told you before the gig.

Grant
 
He proved he knows nothing. Why did he have his secretary google a microphone? Doesn't he know what he wants? He has to have an assistant see if this is the latest gear? He doesn't know?

So it really didn't matter what the microphone sounded like or if it was correct for the application, as long as it googled well, then that was the right one to have on set. What a loon.
 
Pretty crazy story. Pretty shocked as well that any director with any sort of experience hasn't heard or used a 416 either. I run audio with a group of friends (mostly for fun / youtube type stuff) and even our DP has heard of the Senny 416.

Congrats on the gear upgrade as well. I think I remember a couple weeks ago you were using an ATR 6650 so a 416 + sound device mixer is certainly an upgrade...
 
idiots are everywhere, no surprise you ran into one or two.

i gather my response to someone making that kind of statement to me if i were a sound person:

there is no such thing as an industry standard model of equipment, i as a professional use the tool that i deem most appropriate taking into account all the aspects of a particular shoot. the mk416 is that old because it is a proven mic that's been used on more hollywood movies than you've probably ever watched, now, if you don't want me to use the mic that's good enough for hundreds of hollywood movies, that's fine, but creating a scene over it is not the professional way to handle it, your office was already informed as to what we were bringing, and you could have just as easily put in a request for us to use whatever mic you or your secretary with your collective years of expertise on pickup patterns, angles of incidence, rolloff, and the rest of the finer points of acquiring a good audio signal which someone who is not an audio professional does not know about and will render any mic regardless of it's magically powers of google results, useless.

ok maybe not that last part, but you get the idea :)
 
I'm a total audio noob. But I think when I first started, it took about an hour of google research before I learned that mic technology isn't like camera technology and the latest doesn't equal the greatest. Like, AT ALL. And that discounting a 40 year old microphone design would be over the top silly.


It's funny. Nowadays, when I'm in the micro-budget indie world, I've found more often than not that when a small crew is super excited about how their project "is going to be shot on a RED!!!", I actually get the impression that they have no idea what they're doing and have their priorities in all the wrong places and it's going to be a train wreck once they learn of all the logistical on-set and post-processing workflow nightmares they're dealing with. Your story of someone flipping out over an old piece of equipment made me want to face palm for the same reason. I think all I would be able to manage to get out would be a quiet, "That's not how it works."

My vote goes to them using it as a cover story to fire you for another reason.



*COA: If you're shooting on a RED and know what you're doing, I wasn't talking about you. I also think REDs are great cameras.
 
Sounds more like they wanted a way to cancel without having to pay a penalty. Did the shoot continue without you? Did they have a hot-spare all ready to replace you? Or did the shoot get cancelled completely? If it went on with someone else, they did it to replace you without having to pay a cancellation penalty. If the shoot didn't go on, then there was some other reason it couldn't happen and they used this as a way to get out of paying your cancellation penalty.
 
Update. Just got off the phone with my boss and they're saying we were trying to rip them off. Since the contract didn't stipulate specifics microphones, they're saying it was our obligation to bring the best and we're at fault. He said he's already got another company lined up and he called me "an idiot" numerous times.

Boss is talking to a lawyer now. How are they allowed to say that about us? I'm still green to the field but I didn't know this could happen.

I'm terrified I could lose my job over this because I'm the one who chose the 416s.
 
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There is no such thing as the best. Not in cameras, microphones, or lights. You can't define that in a contract. It is non-specific and can't be determined. Complete non-sense. Matt is probably on the right track.
 
Don't sweat it, cooler heads will prevail. These won't be the last unreasonable, childish, unprofessional con artists you encounter. Just be the grown-up in this scene.
 
mustangranch99 said:
Today, I was getting together my standard gear set. Boom, Senn MKH 416s, Sound Devices recorder, and some other things.

I was with a high end production studio who'd done quite a few shoots with this set up and said they had flawless results. They kept telling me it was "the industry standard."

However, upon arriving at the client's studio (A beverage company I will not name), the producer and director asked us what mics we were using. We hadn't started recording yet.

We already told their office earlier we were bringing MKH 416's since it's an exterior shoot and confirmed this with their secretary. However, when we repeated this to them at the set, THEY FLIPPED OUT.

They said:

"Why would you bring that ancient mic to a professional shoot? I had my secretary look up that mic and she told me it was over 40 YEARS OLD. She managed to find a better version of it called the MKH 60 within 5 minutes. WHY WOULDN'T YOU BRING THAT? YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO CALL YOURSELF A PROFESSIONAL STUDIO AND YOU CAN'T EVEN ADAPT TO THE NEW INDUSTRY STANDARD?"

He kept going on and ON about how bad it was and how we should have known better. He terminated our contract and now my boss is saying we might sue him.

I don't understand what I did wrong. Is the 416 really that bad and out of date now? We'd never lost a gig because of our equipment, but if the 416s are old news, should we just replace all of ours with MKH 60s?
Click to expand...


OK ....................

The 416 is *still* the "industry standard" and is a current microphone.

Yes it was introduced about 1975 - but the MKH 60 was introduced in 1986, so that is nearly 30 years old!

Also - the 60 is a bit different with a different character.

AND - the MKH 60 *never* became the "new industry standard", that's why Sennheiser kept making the 416. I used to work for Sennheiser in the UK and, I guess, 10 or 20 416's were sold for every 60 sold.

The really new mic. is the MKH 8060 which came out about three years ago - that's the one that should be the new "industry standard" - but, as of today, the 416 is *still* the "industry standard" - and for good reason.

Yes, the 416 maybe noisier than the 60 and 8060, but is still a superb mic., otherwise Sennheiser would not still be making it.

A microphone is mature technology and is not like a computer that needs changing for a new one every 5-mnutes.

Take the ancient Neumann U47 that is still in great demand......

My take is that they found someone cheaper and wanted an excuse to terminate the contract.

Consult lawyers.

The ranting person has obviously no knowledge at all if they rejected the best mic. for the job as being "too old".
 
mustangranch99 said:
Update. Just got off the phone with my boss and they're saying we were trying to rip them off. Since the contract didn't stipulate specifics microphones, they're saying it was our obligation to bring the best and we're at fault. He said he's already got another company lined up and he called me "an idiot" numerous times.

Boss is talking to a lawyer now. How are they allowed to say that about us? I'm still green to the field but I didn't know this could happen.

I'm terrified I could lose my job over this because I'm the one who chose the 416s.
Click to expand...

You *did* bring the best - you brought the mic. that is still the "industry standard" because SENNHEISER STILL MAKE IT - you can buy a BRAND NEW MKH 416 *NOW*.

You told them in advance that you were bringing a 416 - if they had a problem with that, they should have said then and asked for a different mic.

The 416 is *still* the very best mic. for outside work in wet and damp conditions (yes, even better than the newer MKH 60 and 8060).

From what I have read, you did your job professionally and correctly.

Reading between the lines, I am pretty sure that someone offered to do the job at a lower price and they were just looking for an excuse to terminate the contract.

His rant shows, very clearly, that he knows nothing at all about recording.

I hope my posts help you with you boss.

You are not at fault at all - as I read it - you are the victim of a moron who wanted an excuse to terminate the contract is what I read into this.
 
Totally agree with John and the 416 is still in use daily here in the UK, we use them a great deal for outside broadcasts and for doco and drama production.

The U87, sony ecm77 and EV RE50 are also still valid industry standard mic's and the Rode NTG3 is based on the 416.
 
Hang in there. That guy's a jerk and obviously is using his secretary's expertise (jeez!) to justify his totally unprofessional decision. I recently participated in a workshop with a director/producer who insists on ALL production money up front, at the acceptance of the proposal. Your boss has some responsibility here too - to create arrangements that can't be so capriciously dismissed.
 
Thank the good Lord for protecting you from a long-term working relationship with this utter buffoon.
 
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