I have some more HVX Footage + post workflow in FCP

zoostory

Well-known member
Hey my friend David (filmstox) and I got our hands on a HVX today and did about 2 hours of testing. I have about 4 minutes of test footage of all sorts of things. I have some good clips, shutter angle, overcranking, highlites, etc... however, I have no place to host, if anyone wants to lend a space, I can upload these clips as 720p24p quicktimes in DVCproHD for your perusal.

Also, something that I haven't seen much yet is people posting their post workflow experiences. So let me share what we did today and how it went.

First off, we ran the camera at 720p24p with all 4 audio tracks recording on a 4 gig card. The camera lasted exactly 10 minutes, 40 seconds, and 40 frames. So if you are doing 720p24p, that means close to 11 minutes a card for 4 gig... not bad at all!

Then we transfered to David's laptop. He has a PC (I am a mac guy so forgive me my lack of knowledge). More or less, he installed a driver, copied the files straight from his PCMCIA slot, took about 8 minutes for 2.5 gigs.

Then I hooked up my iPod via USB2, copied the files over to my iPod, ran home, and copied them to my computer. I run a dual 2.3gHz G5. I placed the files on an internal Maxtor 250gb hard drive, no raid or anything.

I then went into FCP 5.04, went to file > import > P2 I pointed the little pop up window to the root of the P2 folder on my hard drive, it immediately recognized and brought up thumbnails for each clip, as well as time data. I was easily able to import all clips with one exception. Once clip was DVCPRO50 SD for testing purposes. The import dialog didn't like mixing and matching, it would crap out on that clip and not import the rest. So instead of doing import all, I selected everything but that clip and hit import. For roughly 5 minutes of footage it took 2 minutes to import and convert everything to quicktimes. Obviously, this import also reads all the metadata, as it took all of the files that were overcranked and automatically marked them to run at 23.976. So everything I shot for slo-mo was indeed slo-mo. It's only a slight pity that the camera itself cannot playback the cranked footage at the desired speed, yet it's nice to see that FCP so easily handled it!

I layed down the footage and started editing. Rememeber, all I have is one 7200 rpm drive. I have to say, I was amazed at the speed of editing. In fact, much more responsive and clean working with this than with my Z1U footage converted to AIC.

I also brough the footage into shake and did some heads up comparisons of the YUV colorspace of the 4:2:2 HVX footage to my Z1U footage. It comes as no surprize that the 4:2:2 footage is a lot more precise in the U and V channels. However, I was mildly surprized at the amount of noise in particularily the V (Cb) stream. I'm not sure if it was because of the settings in the camera however.

I must also say that the footage looked great played back today on a 50" plasma, and on my 24" dell 2405 LCD flatscreen.

Of course, now the question is, here I am, Mr. Indie geek guy with my movie shot in 720p, edited at home on FCP, now what. It's a weird place right now. It kills me to downconvert to SD and DVD. And it kills the pocketbook to go up to film. So we desperately need people to catch up. We need better home options for viewing this stuff! For indie distro.

But overall, I was amazed. The lens, for prosumer, is very strong. The camera has some weight to it. The tapeless workflow is A-MAZING. I want tape to die now. And for my post VFX needs, this stuff is so much better than any 411 or 420 stuff.

I'm sold.

Again, I have clips that I can share if anyone can help me out with some hosting.

Cheers

zoo
 
It's only a slight pity that the camera itself cannot playback the cranked footage at the desired speed

Apparently it can. Read this: http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/framerates/

As for the clips, if you can't find anyone to host them by the morning, I'd be happy to. Thanks for doing the tests. I didn't know FCP had to take the time to convert MXF to Quicktime, that's a shame, but we'll get over it. I'm sure they'll fix it next version.
 
I love your avatar . . . <g>.

I'm a PC user considering making the change -- forgive my lack of knowledge but what version of FCP are you using?

Thanks!

(that's my dog, "Trouble")
 
I had read that thread already prior to the tests. Oddly, it's specifically overcranking in 720p that the camera itself will not play back at the desired rate, it will only play it back at the original frame rate shot. So if you are shooting 60 with 24 intended, the camera will play it back at 60. It even says right in the camera manual that you need a "software program" to get the desired frame rate. weird, eh.

I personally like FCP converting it to quicktime, at least as of now. Until everything else works with MXF, like shake for one, I like the compatability. It's fairly quick and painless.
 
It sounds to me like you did the recording in "over 60p" mode. In that case, the camera will not play back the footage at the overcranked/undercranked rate regardless of the framerate you choose. In order to get it to work, you have to switch your timebase to 24pN or 30pN and then select your desired framerate. As it's only recording the active frames in the "N" mode, when played back at a rate of 24fps or 30fps on the camera, you should be able to see the slow/fast effects. I don't have an HVX yet myself (preproduction, production, or otherwise) so I'm not an expert, but this is how the process works according to my understanding.
 
I could very well be mistaken, but I believe we were in 24pN mode. I don't want to go into garbled detail here, but the gist is there was even a little asterisk in the manual that said playback of overcranked 720p footage no go in camera... again, its a complex peice of art that camera, so I very well could be wrong. Either way, it worked perfectly in post
 
zoostory said:
Of course, now the question is, here I am, Mr. Indie geek guy with my movie shot in 720p, edited at home on FCP, now what. It's a weird place right now. It kills me to downconvert to SD and DVD. And it kills the pocketbook to go up to film. So we desperately need people to catch up. We need better home options for viewing this stuff! For indie distro.
I think this is a huge issue as well. I just moved apartments over the new year holiday only to find out that the cable company which services the new place does not offer HD of any kind at all. I was heartbroken. For the last year, I've been able to see almost all of my favorite shows in HD, and now nothing. I get hives from watching SD anymore. I even looked up Dish Network and DirecTV online to try to circumvent the problem, and their offerings are petty as well. If HD content isn't easy to get ahold of, there's no reason for a family to buy into it. Couple that with the fact that Blu-Ray is still months off, and there's almost no way to show off your beautiful HD footage to the masses.

zoostory said:
The tapeless workflow is A-MAZING. I want tape to die now.
Amen, brotha. :)

zoostory said:
Again, I have clips that I can share if anyone can help me out with some hosting.
I have space and bandwidth and would be willing to help share your files... but is there any way to make some h.264 or wmv clips for the PC people to view as well? The poor Wintel guys are just dying here...
 
I just imported my first mxf file (kau's footage) into FCP for the first time tonight as well and felt the same way. It just brought up a little window with some thumbnails and once I said import all, it went right into the browser. My reaction was, cool! that was easy!

After dropping them into the timeline I was getting a red bar and for the slightest moment, I panicked (knowing that I was on a RAID). But I quickly opened up the File Info to find out what the timebase and size of the clip was (1240x1080) and adjusted the Sequence settings accordingly. And got the grey bars I was hoping to see .

Hey I noticed all you guys are in the LA area too. We should hookup when we get our HVX's (crossing my finger for next week) and go shoot a bit of Hollywood, the beach and the Getty en masse and hope no cops stop us.

:thumbsup:
 
thanks zoostory for the good notice. I really would like to see your footage, please make them wmv files, or mov files compatibility for Windows.
I'll buy a Mac too when I purchase the camera, in Europe, I think in febraury.
Now I've just an old Pc! :(
 
Zoo,
Great news !
I cant wait to see the footage !
What was the detail level set to? That may be the Noise problem...
That is what I HOPE

Somebody Host these please !
 
zoostory said:
I could very well be mistaken, but I believe we were in 24pN mode. I don't want to go into garbled detail here, but the gist is there was even a little asterisk in the manual that said playback of overcranked 720p footage no go in camera... again, its a complex peice of art that camera, so I very well could be wrong. Either way, it worked perfectly in post

Zoostory - I had the same experience the first time I tried to shoot 60P for 24p playback.
It wound up that I had shot in 720/24P mode, not 24PN.

But I can tell you that once I got the settings right (confirmed that I was in 720/24PN mode) I was able to play the clips back at 24fps on the HVX and watch them on the LCD screen in slowmotion.

It is definitely possible to play overcranked clips back in slowmotion on the HVX.

zoostory said:
The tapeless workflow is A-MAZING. I want tape to die now.

I had the same exact reaction after just a few minutes of P2 recording.
It's amazing how quickly we can get adjusted to it. Doesn't tape just feel fragile and outdated now?
:thumbsup:
 
thanks for all the great comments, great to know I can get the cranking to show in camera! I won't have mine for a while, but my friend on these forums named filmstox is renting one next week and shooting a whole greenscreen project, so that will be a fun experiment (evil grin)...

I am a film student at USC and sadly must go there right now to work, I will be home later this evening, I will convert the quicktimes to some other formats for posting and try and hook up with one of you to get them online.

cheers
 
zoostory said:
It's only a slight pity that the camera itself cannot playback the cranked footage at the desired speed, yet it's nice to see that FCP so easily handled it!
The camera can definitely play back the cranked footage at the desired speed -- if you shot in the "Native" mode. There are five 720p recording modes listed: 720/60p, 720/30p, 720/24p, 720/30pN, and 720/24pN. Sounds like you must have been in 720/24p mode, which is actually what they call "over 60". And in "over 60" mode, you'll see the realtime 60p playback, but you can conform it in post to act just like native mode (as you found out). Had you shot in "native mode" in the first place, then when you play it back in-camera you'll see 60 frames played back at the 24fps rate, for instant preview.

Great report, by the way!
 
hey zoostory... Class of '02 here. If I'm not mistaken, there's some kind of "big game" today? ;)

All these Brown Shirts I see everywhere are sort of creeping me out.
 
zoostory said:
thanks for all the great comments, great to know I can get the cranking to show in camera! I won't have mine for a while, but my friend on these forums named filmstox is renting one next week and shooting a whole greenscreen project, so that will be a fun experiment (evil grin)...

I am a film student at USC and sadly must go there right now to work, I will be home later this evening, I will convert the quicktimes to some other formats for posting and try and hook up with one of you to get them online.

cheers

Hey zoostory,
Can you get filmstox to get us some footage of how the greenscreen looks once he keys the background in? I'd love to see it!:)
 
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