I had to laugh

D

David W. Richardson

Chapelgrove Films
Someone posted a class offering on Facebook yesterday.

It was a 2-day seminar to teach film school graduates how to be production assistants on film shoots.

Did you get that??? People who have GRADUATED from FILM SCHOOL are going to be taught how to do the least-skilled job on a production crew??? No offense to production assistants everywhere, who are GREAT and a valuable asset to our productions -- but come ON.
 
Liam Hall said:
Over the years some of the worst young crew/employees I've encountered have been film school grads. They often come with a bad attitude and sense of entitlement. I'd say a two day seminar to deliver a large dollop of reality is a good thing.
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I could see it for a lot of crew positions, but literally anyone with energy, a decent knowledge of the area, and a car can be a production assistant. What is there to teach? Day 1: "Be nice." Day 2: "Don't get in the way."

No class is going to reach people who have a bad attitude and a sense of entitlement. Frankly, I wouldn't hire a film school graduate to be a production assistant in the first place. He or she is more likely to contradict me (as the producer), the director, the DP, etc. "Well that's not how we learned it in film school!"

I've dealt with crew people who think things should be done a different way and are quite vocal on the set about it. It's not pretty. I had one guy on a shoot who disagreed with the director's choice of where, in a room, to put the talent for a sit-down interview shot. He went so far as to hunt down the client, talk to the client (stating his years of experience and how many shoots he'd been on), and ultimately getting the client to agree with him and make the director do it his way. This wasn't a production assistant, but he certainly didn't have the authority to do what he did. Needless to say, I won't be working with him again.

I hire people who are qualified for the job they're hired for -- not OVER-qualified.
 
Not trying to de-rail the discussion, but this talk of attitude reminds me of another encounter...

I received 3 missed calls with voice mails in a row, all occurred around 8pm which is after business hours from a very rushed and pushy sounding young person from a middle school wanting to job shadow for a day. It wasn't a stuttering/I'm nervous type voice.
Well, the next day I was extremely busy and didn't call him back. Wasn't sure I was going to anyway. Received another voice mail again that evening. The next day received a call from his teacher asking if we were available to do job shadowing and I kindly thanked him for calling and told him we were unfortunately not at the present time. I then noticed a message from facebook from the young lad asking the same thing again so I thanked him for contacting us and that we were unfortunately not at the present time.
The young lad replied, "f____ you."

I did not respond. I considered for a moment sharing that with his teacher, but decided not to and said several prayers for him instead.
I thought to myself, with an attitude like that he will go far.
 
Im shooting a low-budget feature in NYC right now. One day, when due to unforeseen circumstances, the camera department was understaffed so the line-producer got two PAs to help throughout the day.

One of them was an actress with interest in the camera department but no real experience or much knowledge. The other was a recent graduate who had been making shorts with friends and schoolmates for a while. In fact, the recent graduate went to the same school I got my masters from.

Long story short, the recent graduate kept trying to network me for contacts and kept being a know it all...speaking out of turn, interjecting in conversation between myself (DP) and the director, and in his eagerness to show he knew what he was doing, would not take direction and kept second guessing me. On the other hand, the actress who didn't know much listened to direction, would ask questions in appropriate times, was hard working and made a real difference that day.

While I disagree with the stigma of film-school graduates being know it alls and producers not wanting to hire them, in this case, I saw know it all syndrome first hand.

Being a hard worker even if you are just a PA is not necessarily a given to most people who might feel underutilized or who feel like they should be department head.

While I wish him the best and hope he has a bright future, he won't be getting called back to this specific production. And I hope with time he will be able to learn from this experience.
 
I find switched on tradies make excellent assistants. Hard working, attentive, never complain, can figure things out but know when it's time to ask for help, instinctively know how far you can force a mechanism before it breaks and by lunchtime first day I'm usually not even using words anymore, a look or gesture and they are moving. Make good ACs, grips and Lx. And they'll come back time and time again because they make good money in their day jobs and roles that are shitty (when approached with the wrong attitude) are fun to them. They know safety, are experienced in working long periods in uncomfortable positions in less than stellar environments, not squeamish, good with the banter yet know to stow it around 'management'. Experienced working in around and on top of other crews. Always an asset.

My main key grip and AC are a pair of blokes that rocked up on a production I was 1st ACing. It was their first time and I had to show them what to do. Only ever had to show them once and they've been my go to guys ever since. Assistants used to be a necessary evil but now I love it.

Film students have been a mixed bag. Gen y girls have usually made amazing ACs. Diligent, attentive and often better skilled than they let on. Frankly more than one should maybe had my job. Other than the know-it-alls the other dreaded archetypes are the pathologically nervous, needy or over eager to please types that need constant reassurance/attention, never letting you complete a train of thought. Or the ones that get too much into departmental tribalism, unaware that interdepartmental banter is just that, and if Lx is coming through just get out of the bloody way lol. And leave the damned talent alone! Haha
 
In defense of film school grads, I must say that I've worked with literally thousands of them over the years. I'm in NY, we're thick with 'em. Of course there are people who have poor attitudes or don't know when to shut up and listen, but the vast majority are great. They don't push their crap on you but when asked to do something I'm often pleasantly surprised that I don't have to explain because they already know more than they've let on. We all know the kid who arrives Day 1 as a general PA and he just so gets it in mentality, energy, paying attention and clear-minded thinking that by the end of the week he's been promoted to something fairly important. That kid is going places and more often than not he's been to film school, at least in my experience. I never minded the person who could find the proper time to quietly ask, "Excuse me, but I was wonder why you did..." If I have time I'm happy to answer, and usually it's the kind of thing that takes 30 seconds but means a lot to the person asking. And frankly when I see that it means a lot it shows me that that person has the cogs turning inside his or her head and more likely than not is going to be someone useful to have around.
 
Mitch Gross said:
In defense of film school grads, I must say that I've worked with literally thousands of them over the years. I'm in NY, we're thick with 'em. Of course there are people who have poor attitudes or don't know when to shut up and listen, but the vast majority are great. They don't push their crap on you but when asked to do something I'm often pleasantly surprised that I don't have to explain because they already know more than they've let on. We all know the kid who arrives Day 1 as a general PA and he just so gets it in mentality, energy, paying attention and clear-minded thinking that by the end of the week he's been promoted to something fairly important. That kid is going places and more often than not he's been to film school, at least in my experience. I never minded the person who could find the proper time to quietly ask, "Excuse me, but I was wonder why you did..." If I have time I'm happy to answer, and usually it's the kind of thing that takes 30 seconds but means a lot to the person asking. And frankly when I see that it means a lot it shows me that that person has the cogs turning inside his or her head and more likely than not is going to be someone useful to have around.
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I'm not impugning film school grads, honest. I just feel the best approach is to not hire someone for any position who is way over-qualified for that position. I think there is less chance of running into problems. But that's just me.

I sort of equate it to hiring someone with a doctorate in Business to a lowly position in the mail room. They may not be happy in their work. They may feel undervalued and underutilized -- and with good reason. I'd rather hire someone qualified to sort mail, and have them work their way up to CEO, than hire someone qualified to be the CEO and have them sorting mail.
 
David W. Richardson said:
I sort of equate it to hiring someone with a doctorate in Business to a lowly position in the mail room. They may not be happy in their work. They may feel undervalued and underutilized -- and with good reason. I'd rather hire someone qualified to sort mail, and have them work their way up to CEO, than hire someone qualified to be the CEO and have them sorting mail.
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Oh, the irony. This is SO funny. Because that's exactly how it is for the entry point into Hollywood at any major talent agency. Talent agencies are factories that produce "boot-camp" graduates who then go on to staff executive positions in the rest of the industry, studios and production companies. Most of the folks who work at such positions come out of talent agencies. You don't go into a talent agency in order to become an agent - or rather, you can, but that's a very small minority. You do that, because a talent agency is the best place for you learn the business, and after about a year or so, you get to move into assistant and executive positions.

And it's a sink or swim type situations. You start in the mailroom. Yep, lowly mailroom position, where you sort the mail, and distribute it up into the various agent offices, collect mail, run errands, drop off and pick up scripts, sub for an assistant on an agent's desk etc., bring lunches for agents etc.

Some people spend many months in the mailroom, before they graduate to an assistant position on an agent's desk, where they put in about a year or so, and then go out into the industry, supported by the agent whom they worked for.

And pretty much everyone goes through the mailroom. Anyone who wants to get a start or transition into the business side of the industry. People who aimed at that right out of school. People who are well established in their careers who want to transition to working in the entertainment industry on the business side.

When I started out in the mailroom of one of the top three agencies in town, there were all sorts of interesting people working in the mailroom with me - lawyers with established careers who wanted to try the entertainment industry, doctors, businesspeople, executives from other industries and so on. I worked with some very accomplished folks, who were used to making hundreds of thousands per year, working the mailroom for $250 a week (which is what it paid when I started out), bringing lunch for agents half their age.

So yeah, it's not really a question of qualifications, as much as age. People want to hire young folks. Young is more important than accomplished. If it's a choice between a 18 year old PA straingt out of highschool, and a 45 year old lawyer applying to be a PA, whom would YOU pick? I'd pick the kid. Because they are usually faster to learn, way, way, way less entitled, can be worked much harder and so on. That's what's key. It also happens that because they're young, they have simply not had the time to become "overqualified". It's not that one would avoid the "overqualified", it's that in pursuing the young guys, you frequently have to give up on "qualifications" and "overqualifications", cause they never had the time to accumulate those "qualifications".

Bottom line: would you prefer a blank slate on which you can write whatever you want - a complete newbie - or would you prefer someone who is already qualified? There are different schools of thought about that. Some prefer to make their own stamp on these freash kids, and some prefer folks who already know a lot.

Differet strokes for different folks. But honestly it's down to the individual person. Some PAs are good, some bad, regardless of age, qualifications or how they got there. You just try to get the good ones and fire the bad ones.
 
I cut my teeth i the New York independent cinema scene of the late eighties / early nineties. It was when independent cinema really blew up big and became a real industry. Sex, Lies & Videotape came out of Sundance and the world could be yours for an under-$100K Super-16 feature.

My crews were either film school kids or absolutely newbies, or some friends who were industry professionals who were occasionally helping out. Except for the last group, I was ALWAYS the most qualified on set. I usually tried to get a Gaffer, 1st AC and sound person with experience, but otherwise they were from the school or off the turnip truck.

Being "overqualified" for a job is not a problem in my book. Approaching the job as you being overqualified is. I had people working on the shoot whom I later discovered were ridiculously well-qualified for the work we were doing, but simply wanted to be a part of the scene. I remember one guy was helping by filling in as a boom op for a few days and I later found out he also owned a complete ARRI 35-3 kit, but since he'd only ever done studio insert shoots he wanted to get onto a location set with actors to check it out. It was a pretty crazy work, but the film students were rarely a problem. It became a running joke that someone would choose to play the "film student part" on any given day, waltzing into a given situation and announcing that if he were shooting this scene he'd use lens X and gel Y to better reference Renoir and Godard. And the joke was that absolutely no one ever did anything of the sort in real life.

At a certain point I would be shooting with ridiculously overqualified crews of film school grads and indie film scene crew people, and the ONLY one on set who had absolutely zero experience was the director. My joke at the time was that director had become the last entry-level position.
 
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