I feel sad

Jim Brennan said:
The billing thing sounds like a good way to try and make the Mom understand, but I doubt it will work. I would guess this is a very passive/aggressive strategy on the Mom's part. SHe would probably say something like "I never said that you can't release this film. I only said that I am very disappointed in my daughter and I don't want anyone to see this"
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That would likely be the best outcome. It allows the director to release the film, and it provides the ideal opportunity for the daughter to stand on her own two feet and explain that this behavior is unacceptable.

While I realize we may be fighting cultural issues here, where business is concerned things often can be accepted. In any case, the daughter needs to understand that until she can sort out things with her mother, this avenue of work will be considered closed.
 
Zim said:
Can you edit the kiss?
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The kiss is part of the storyline, in such a way that it must be seen for rest of the story to move forward (i.e you can't imply that it happened off-screen).

Zim said:
Sorry if it was my film and all this was agreed too in advance then I'd show the movie.
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That's also a complex issue. Our group actually puts periodic shows for paying audiences and occasionally we produce films for these shows. If she had brought up this problem (i.e her mom is going to be at the show), her concern would be taken seriously and the film would potentially have to be pulled. It's a very delicate situation either way because we're trying to balance the concern of the group and all of our individual members.
 
I don't want to rain on anyones prade but if I'm right didn't she read the script? I wouldn't careless about what the mother has to say I know this is heartless to some of the weaker ones but if I'm making a film and some yo yo says hey I don't want that film shown so everyone is out they can really - well you know.

I shot a short film that had a my 23 year old actress topless coming out of the river. The mother didn't want everyone to see her daughter breast so we shot it so we would cut for the breast shot not showing any face as she came out of the water and how we did it was we used another actress for that part.

After we had our showing of the short film the Mother says "Oh my daughter breast is much nicer then those" so it turned out that we should have shot the whole scene instead of using two actress to play one body so now I say I will do it my way.

Unless your film is really bad with bad acting, talent, lighting etc.... and the mother doesn't want her daughter shown in such a horrible film where people say "Oh God why did they make that piece of &^%$#" I would do what you want.

You can always edit the kiss scene out and release the film and have yourself a DIRECTOR CUT with the kissing scene at a later date.

Okay I know some of you are going HUH???????
 
Unless she's also a producer on the project, I wouldn't throw the project away because of this incident. It was made by a lot of effort and time donated by the whole team, you cannot just decide to throw it all away... how are the crew and other cast going to think on the next project of yours? They wouldn't know whether or not this project will be something that they could use for the reel or resume?
One other option might be, reshoot the kiss scene... you could have her moved in for a kiss but cut, as soon as they got close, to a close up kiss from different actress? as long as they have the same lips structure... it'd be fine?
But yeah... please give it more serious thought as a director before you throw this beloved project in the trash!!
We want to see it!!!
 
Jim Brennan said:
I agree that blood is thick, but this isn't really healthy behavior. I would guess there is way more going on here between this mom and daughter than this role.
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Perhaps. But would you really want to get in the middle of it?

If the kiss is the problem, and if she's asked and you have agreed to honor the request, then I'd make the kiss disappear. No putting it on your reel, no putting it in festivals.

If the crew wants to put the film on their reels, -- crews rarely ever put an entire film on their reels anyway, so they'd probably be happy with some scenes.
 
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vnguyen972 said:
One other option might be, reshoot the kiss scene... you could have her moved in for a kiss but cut, as soon as they got close, to a close up kiss from different actress? as long as they have the same lips structure... it'd be fine?
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Perhaps an option.

But I love Perrone's suggestion that you put the burden on those who have put the burden on you. Make the actress (or, better yet, her mom) explain to the crew why they spent days or weeks donating to you, and now it's all thrown away. You shouldn't have to bear the brunt of someone else's revoked decision.

With that said, no way would I go back on my word to the actress and show it anyway. This was a friend thing, a non-paid thing. If you had hired them, signed the appropriate agreements, and did it as a business transaction, arranged financing, hired the crew, etc., then that's one thing, but ... this was a favor she did you...

... well, the way I look at it, I think they're thinking they (mom & daughter) made a mistake by getting involved in this on-screen kiss thing, and that it will reflect badly on them now and in the future, and they'd like to be let off the hook. You have the opportunity to honor their wishes, or to effectively say "no, I'm going to ensure that everyone sees you performing this on-screen kiss, even though you've now told me it would hurt you to see that happen."

I wouldn't do it. This wasn't a big ol' feature, this was a favor she did you. But she shouldn't (or, especially, her mama shouldn't) be allowed to stick you in a big ol' nasty no-win situation. You did exactly what you said you'd do, so therefore you shouldn't be the one to suffer.

If anyone has to suffer, it should be those who caused your suffering, so therefore, mama has to explain it, or pay off the crew for their donated time.
 
First, I would test to see if this on screen kiss was really the driving force behind this decision. I'd talk to the actress again and ask if you can figure out how to work around the kiss would her and her mother ok the release of the film. If the answer is no, you know there's more to it than just the kiss.

If it is just the kiss, well... this is independent filmmaking. What's the one thing you are guarenteed: ROADBLOCKS!! It's how you figure out how to get around them that proves your worth. If this would was my baby I'd dive headfirst into figuring how to make it work out(which means dealing with compromises). I'm sure you've heard stories about actors quitting, losing locations, crew etc...you lost a pivotal scene, but you were planning to do re-shoots anyways. This can be worked out, it sounds like you still have cast and crew, and the ability to rewrite, or even re-shoot the scene as to not show her face when they kiss. There are lots of alternatives instead of just giving up.

As you are just now dealing with this, the intial reaction is we're screwed... but give it a day or two then get back to the drawing board on how to make it work out.
 
That's a bit absurd but I've seen it happen.

I have a friend who's Vietnamese (judging by your name I'm guessing, but not assuming, that your situation is perhaps similar) and I use her in a lot of movies many of which have pretty intense makeout/kissing/implied sex scenes...she just doesn't tell her mom. Which her mom is a little confused by "how come I've never seen any of the films you're in."

But really, just a kiss? Wow. Hmmm...maybe explain to the mother that this is art, and that it's not that significant and that she is acting and all the work that went in on it...

Anyway, I recommend suggesting that it be put online but she be credited under a stage name? That way if the mother is worried people would think it was real or find it offensive there is plausible deniability about who the actress is...
 
Jim Brennan said:
My guess is that many people put time and effort into this. I would also guess that, as a grown woman, this actress would have been aware in advance of how her mom might react. So she was gambling with other people's time and effort knowing this was a possibility. That is irresponsible and unfair (IMHO)>
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Skimming through this thread, this is the one thought that I can really get behind.

If it were me, I'd go ahead and release it. No compromise. Sometimes in life you gotta be a jerk.

But I'm just some nameless, faceless guy on the internet. Do what you want.
 
Hi Huy,

I shot a TV spot where the most integral scene and climax of the TV spot was the kiss. However, the lead girl would not kiss the guy because it was against her own morals since she had a boyfriend and did not feel that it was right, so what I did was I used a little movie magic where the two faces got close enough to look like a kiss but their lips never touched in real life. And I got such a wonderful expression out of her, and it was the money shot for that commercial and it went well.

So with all that said, perhaps you can probe further into the mother's feelings, and be sympathetic to it (as it seems you are) and then find out if there's another way. Maybe if you reshoot the scene where it just "Looks" like a kiss but in reality she isn't kissing the guy, perhaps the mother would then be OK with it. And the mother probably does not understand how much work and time it took to make this film. Communication is always key.

JM
 
Wow, this situation you're in sucks. I've never been in this particular pickle, but on films I've made I've had to make compromises due to unforeseen problems that have arisen, so I know how frustrating it can be when stuff arises to derail a film.

If it were me, I'd release the film. It may be the jerk move, but at the same time, filmmaking is a tough business, and sometimes you have to do what you have to do. Certainly, many films, some great, and some not so great have been made by people who sacrificed and did things they didn't like or want to do to get the film completed.

The bottom line is that this really isn't your problem. It's the actresses problem. Whether or not she knew or suspected her mother would flip a biscuit about the "kiss" is irrelevant. It actually kinda ticks me off that someone would drag their family problems into someone's film, whether the actor - director relationship is between two friends or purely professional.

But I would also worry about the mother possibly having a problem with her daughter being an actress, not just the kissing scene. If that is the case, then you don't want to be at her whim, trying to edit around all the problems she has with her daughter's scenes. I mean, this is not a sex or nude scene. An onscreen kiss, even if tongue is involved, isn't that huge of a deal. Maybe in Victorian times, but in 2009?

Having said all that, I admire your efforts to do what you believe is right, and to respect what your friend wants. It sounds like you are a real stand-up dude. So please don't take my advice the wrong way. It just got a little riled up hearing about how someone is trying to keep a DVXUSER down, especially one who has been rocking the XH-A1 :thumbsup:. Let's face it, no film, no matter how small requires a ton of dedication and just plain hard work.

I think that you should take a day off from worrying about this problem. Decompress a bit, then come back to it and list all the possible solutions, many of which were mentioned here by everyone else are all good ideas and possible solutions.

Good luck with whichever path you take on this.
 
I'm sorry, but if a good friend of mine did that to me, I wouldn't consider them a good friend.

Everyone's been saying it, and using one word, collaboration. Film is a collaborative effort. Obviously her mom, and possibly this actress can't see that. Even if you're crew says it's okay, deep down inside they're disappointed, as I'm sure you are as well.

She's the one seen on screen, yes, but you have to ask, how much is it HER project? If it was a music video for her, or some sort of demo video of her, or something she hired you to do, then that would sound strange but reasonable.

Because this is EVERYONE's project, then why does she get 100% say in it? If there's anyone that get's a say, its you, and obviously you want to release this (because of this thread).

I think you should talk to her. You gave her your word, but it's not set in stone. Say how it's bothering you and the crew and how it's not really fair for her to ask you for this for your, and everyone's project.

Remember, film is collaboration...
 
Here is what you do. Explain to her you will cut the kiss. Then find an actress and actor to double. Just cut to an extreme close-up of the doubles kissing. It isn't really her and problem should be solved. Then once that is done you stand your ground like no other. You may not have the perfect shot but you may find it more interesting with that CU of the doubles. Standing your ground and going down with the ship is also a mark of a great filmmaker imo. Film doesn't have to be linear so think outside of the box but don't bend so much you break.
 
Or if mommy is rich, then you can blackmail her for that footage to get a huge lump sum of money......otherwise the footage goes viral in youtube. Cash in the check, pay the crew, and make another feature! lol. :P
 
Nektonic said:
Maybe in Victorian times, but in 2009?
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goodone-1.jpg
 
Batutta said:
You know what I say...If the mother doesn't want it released, ask her for money in the amount of the time, effort and capital you invested in the project. Then you'll find out how much she really doesn't want it made public...Personally, I think you'd be being a better friend by telling the mother no so your friend can deal with the issue and have a healthier relationship with her domineering mother.
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^^this^^
 
This is also a 4 year old thread...I doubt that's any longer an issue. I was just more curious as to if it was ever released or what the cast/crew reaction was.

KS.
 
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