I don't understand what "over 60p" means.

R

Riffamortis

New member
I'm trying to decide on a workflow for my first TV shoot and am having trouble understanding Panasonic's frame rate settings. At first I was going to shoot 720/30 at 30fps but it looked too jittery. Switching to 60 fps clears this up but it looks like watching the news or a sporting event. So from there I tried 720/60 at 30 fps and it looks much better. However, I don't understand how it works. I'm assuming when I import the footage into Final Cut Pro it will open it in a 59.94 timeline but with a 30fps look. Is this right? I need to deliver the final product on DigiBeta so doesn't the timeline need to be 29.97 for that?

I downloaded Panasonic's "The Invaluable Guide to the HVX-200" and they describe the 720 as being lines of resulotion while the following 60 (or 30 or 24) is the frame rate. According to the guide, the "over ___p"

Stands for the frame rate of the recording format. When it differs from the shooting rate of the CCD, it should be indicated.
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To me this means that the "over" number overwrites whatever the original frame rate is if they differ. What's the point of this? Why not eliminate the over number and leave it at 720/24, 720/30, or 720/60? Am I missing something here?

I'm so confused by this that my question probably doesn't even make sense. Help?
 
As far as I know when shooting "over 60" the shooting is no longer "native" to the frame rate you are shooting. Hence why there is 24pn and 30pn. When shooting "over 60" literally the camera is shooting 60 fields per second. I'm pretty sure that is creating an interlaced image which is why is seems so much smoother to you. I know that when you shoot 1080i/30, the camera takes 2 images every second (Hence "over 60") and then goes back and interlaces them so that there are 30 frames per second. I believe this is due to the DVCpro codec.

Hope this helps...
 
"Over 60" (or Over 59.94) means that you're shooting a slower frame rate (24) but recording in a stream of a faster frame rate (60). This means that the camera is inserting (but not shooting) duplicate frames to fill out the stream from 24 to 60 fps. But it'll look the same as 24p when you play it.
 
taybo20 said:
When shooting "over 60" literally the camera is shooting 60 fields per second.
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No; this is exactly what it doesn't mean. It's shooting the correct frame rate (24 or 30); it's recording 60 frames by duplicating frames, not shooting extra ones.


I'm pretty sure that is creating an interlaced image which is why is seems so much smoother to you.
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No, in 720, there is never interlacing.


I know that when you shoot 1080i/30, the camera takes 2 images every second (Hence "over 60")
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No, it takes 30 images per second.


and then goes back and interlaces them so that there are 30 frames per second.
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It splits each frame into two interlaced fields and makes 60 interlaced fields per second -- but it doesn't SHOOT that many; it only creates them from the 30 progressive frames per second in order to fill out the 60-fields-per-second (actually 59.94) stream.


I believe this is due to the DVCpro codec.
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Yes, at 1080 in a 60 Hz system, the recording must be 59.94, so this is why it's done.

But it's a recording method only, not a shooting method. All shooting is done at the base frame rate you specificy.
 
So let me get this straight...

So let me get this straight...

If I shoot 720/60p @ 30fps the end result (once the pull down is done in Final Cut Pro) will look the same as if I shot 720/30pn @ 30 fps since it just removes those extra duplicate images that make the picture seem smoother?

Is there a way to change the resulting 59.94 timeline to a 29.97 timeline for output to DigiBeta?

Thanks for your help.
 
Riffamortis said:
If I shoot 720/60p @ 30fps the end result (once the pull down is done in Final Cut Pro) will look the same as if I shot 720/30pn @ 30 fps since it just removes those extra duplicate images that make the picture seem smoother?
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If you are referring to the variable frame rates in the Scene File settings, then no. It will play back at 2x real time.

There aren't many reasons to shoot over-60, and almost all of the reasons which do exist have to do with streaming out firewire. If you're shooting to the P2 card, and you want 30p, just shoot 30pN.


EDIT: Reading over this again, I think there may be some confusion. The "over-60" is what you get when you shoot in the 720 "P" (not N) modes; you don't do it by setting the variable frame rates.

It's also how 1080/24p/24pA/30p are always recorded, but that's a little bit different because it's 60 interlaced fields instead of full progressive frames. Same idea, though -- the progressive frames are recorded in a 59.94 stream instead of in their native timebases.
 
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