i don't know about the ex-1

[Tim Naylor]

Barry, you could always add some weights to the ex1 and pretend it's a heavy cam. I really don't see your point here.

Barry's assessment with the EX1 is pretty spot on. I understand his reasoning with RED. Taking that logic, put your EX1 on a good set of sticks or a more stable hand held rig. You have one extreme, Philip Bloom style, mostly static on sticks or you got Born Supremacy at the other extreme. The former is ideal for CMOS and the latter, well get another camera. As much as people say RED is a feature camera, it's in the frenetic hand held field that's still in vogue in many a feature that it may show its CMOS weaknesses. At the end of the day it still comes down to right tool for the right gig and at the under 20G crowd, your one camera may be like a leatherman - has everything but is not great at any.

Concerning the word "pro" it's means you get paid for your craft and your craft excels in terms of technique and conduct (you're never late and know what you're doing, do it fast, all the while maintaining your cool). When you get paid but don't know your craft, you're a hack. If you know your craft but don't get paid, you say "yes" far too often or have a trust fund. In any case, if you're going to use the EX1 know where it shines and where it doesn't. Don't get caught with magnetics or picket fences on your pans. And don't say, "nobody told me". Because nobody cares why you couldn't deliver. But will give you high hosannas if you did your homework.

 

[Kholi]

Seems odd you would laugh at someone's opinion... he simply sees an obvious bias (and said it respectfully) and he thinks, as do many others, that there is no better sub-$15,000 camera. And he said it in a thread about the EX1. And that's funny? It's one thing to disagree with an opinion and say why, it's another to attempt to belittle. Oh well.

It's not stated as opinion, it's stated at fact. Sorry man. If it were stated as opinion then that would be just it.

The best camera under 15k would be one that could do it all... please show me one that can flawlessly and I'll have no reason to switch cameras again in my life.

 

[Buck Forester]

It's not stated as opinion, it's stated at fact. Sorry man. If it were stated as opinion then that would be just it.

Not to get into a ridiculous discussion or anything, but an opinion is someone's take on something (a fact that can't be universally proven to be true or false). It is my opinion, and I know as a FACT for myself because I own the camera and have seen otherwise, that Barry completely over hypes the rolling shutter problem on the EX1. I know this to be true. He knows it to be different. Thus, our opinions differ. That's fine. I find it to be completely obvious that Barry and many others here are totally biased against the EX1. This is a fact to me, but since I can't prove it in the pure sense of the word, it's my opinion. If someone says John McCain is the best candidate, and another says Obama is the best by far, that's how they honestly feel. To "LOL" at their opinion, and another joins in with a high-five dig, that's just a childish attempt to belittle another's view. I see the obvious bias myself... you probably don't because, well, I'll let you answer that.

The best camera under 15k would be one that could do it all... please show me one that can flawlessly and I'll have no reason to switch cameras again in my life.

Obviously he's speaking of what he thinks the best sub-15K camera that 'exists' on the market, not what one can dream up. I think it's pretty well established each camera has its flaws. Choosing the best one in a certain price bracket is what he's talking about. That seems to be a given?

 

[Buck Forester]

Barry's assessment with the EX1 is pretty spot on.

It might be an accurate assessment of the EX1 he used, I dunno, but I can guarantee it doesn't accurately reflect the EX1 I have in my hand. Well, it's not in my hand right now because I'm typing, but it's only about 8.5 feet from me. My EX1 does not show the traits, not even close, that he says it does, or should, or whatever it's not supposed to be, or should be.

Allz I can say is if Barry is telling me the sky is pink, and I look up and it's quite blue, what am I supposed to believe? My eyes, or what someone tells me what I'm supposed to be seeing? Yes, in the extremes of the day, at morning and evening, the sky 'might' be pink, I'll grant that because it's true, but 95% of the time I'm seeing nice blue skies. Despite what others tell me about the sky.

 

[Kholi]

It's not a given on a forum. When it's prefaced with "in my opinion" then it's an opinion on a forum. When it's bookended with acidic flare like "point." then the statement becomes s fact and therefore should be proven. I'm not lol'ingar an opinion, I'm lol'ing at the statement being presented as a [spiteful] fact.

The camera is what it is and it is NOT a do-it-all system, in my opinion. That still doesn't stop me from want one just as much ax I want an HPX500. Defending it to the grave is ni better than condemning it because neither side if the fence sees anything truly productive. If you only see blue skies you should shoot them.

My LOL still stands, because I really did LOL and I can't go back in time to undo that. Oops.

 

[Buck Forester]

When it's bookended with acidic flare like "point." then the statement becomes s fact and therefore should be proven.

Ha! ... to say there is no better sub-15K camera is so OBVIOUSLY an opinion, and not a 'fact', that this warrants no further discussion. Of course, that's just my opinion, ha! No worries, Kholi, when it's all said and done we're just talking about cameras, it's cool.

I'm done with this thread (and the crowd goes crazy!) because I've been sitting here reviewing my spankin' new footage today (not wilderness stuff, just family stuff and 'tests' around the neighborhood) and I am COMPLETELY blown away with this sucker! This is the God's honest truth... I panned this thing at 1080/60i in auto mode like there was no tomorrow without a HINT of skew, then I handheld it and purposely shook it, both with vibrations and wobbles (as if I were hiking in the wilds, handheld, getting rough footage) and I did not see any jello or ANY wobble. I'm not saying this blindly or because I have a SooOOOOny or that I've been discussing it the last few days here, but I was honestly expecting 'some' skew and wobble with what I was doing with it. None! Nada, Zippo, Zilch! I was doing stuff I would never even do in a flick and I still wasn't able invoke rolling shutter or wobble. I honestly don't know if some folks got bad production models or what... mine is fresh off the line, 6000+ serial number, and I AM SO FREAKING EXCITED at what I'm seeing!

I can't WAIT to get this thing into the wilderness! So much of what I've been dreaming and working towards is now coming to fruition. I went all out on the studio and monitoring and editing stuff, and carefully reviewed a bunch of cameras (and computers and software and capture cards and monitors and audio and tripods and dollies and jibs and mounts and stabilizers and lens adapters and helicopters - okay, I lied about the helicopters, etc., etc.), spent MONTHS in these forums watching and learning and taking notes... then slowly posting some questions, then comments, then quickly becoming obnoxious (ha!), but now it's GO-TIME!

I'm sure I'd be just as excited about a new HVX200a or a Canon-majigger, but seeing this razor sharp footage on my 30" screen, allz I can say is WOW! people, if anyone is considering this Sony EX1 contraption, it is SUH-WEET!!! YAAA! Okay, gotta hit the jose (bedtime, not Cuervo), not sure how I can sleep... seriously, I am PUMPED! Okay, I'm done. Peace out. And remember, it's all about the wilderness!

 

[doofalot]

It might be an accurate assessment of the EX1 he used, I dunno, but I can guarantee it doesn't accurately reflect the EX1 I have in my hand. Well, it's not in my hand right now because I'm typing, but it's only about 8.5 feet from me. My EX1 does not show the traits, not even close, that he says it does, or should, or whatever it's not supposed to be, or should be.

Allz I can say is if Barry is telling me the sky is pink, and I look up and it's quite blue, what am I supposed to believe? My eyes, or what someone tells me what I'm supposed to be seeing? Yes, in the extremes of the day, at morning and evening, the sky 'might' be pink, I'll grant that because it's true, but 95% of the time I'm seeing nice blue skies. Despite what others tell me about the sky.

man, i would love to see some of your successful "non philip bloom style" footage on the ex1 if you ever get a chance to post it. any good non-super-slow-and-smooth-pan movement that doesn't create the jello effect.

you have one of the most glowing opinions of the ex1 and if it is performing as you say it is, then it would indeed have the potential to be the hvx killer. so far, my (now extensive) research on footage is showing almost any movement not done by philip bloom at a snail's pace to be problematic, especially at 24p.

i would love to see something to sway opinions in the other direction.

 

[doofalot]

this may be a bad hypothesis

but i am wondering if the jellocam effect might be reduced if the ex1 were to shoot a scene in 48p then play the scene at 200% speed (thus resulting in normal speed) with frame blending.

since the image would be sampled twice as often per frame, there would be reduced opportunity for parts of the image to shift relative to each other as the sensor worked its way down the frame.

i am now prepared to have my theory blown out of the water, or told the footage will look bad, etc.

 

[kubalsky]

man, i would love to see some of your successful "non philip bloom style" footage on the ex1 if you ever get a chance to post it. any good non-super-slow-and-smooth-pan movement that doesn't create the jello effect.

you have one of the most glowing opinions of the ex1 and if it is performing as you say it is, then it would indeed have the potential to be the hvx killer. so far, my (now extensive) research on footage is showing almost any movement not done by philip bloom at a snail's pace to be problematic, especially at 24p.

i would love to see something to sway opinions in the other direction.

Check this out. Last November when I first got my EX1 and still didn't really know what I was doing I decided to make a short documentary about a reclusive artist friend of mine. Mostly shot with the EX1 and some earlier stuff on my Canon Digital Camera. Watch the walking scene from around the 6min 30sec point. I'm blind drunk at this point and we are going for more beer. I'm carrying the EX1 handheld with no shoulder support 24p shutter off either off or 1/48 and drunk. Worst case scenario and it still looks ok to me.

http://www.vimeo.com/903426

I have since sobered up and shot a lot of perfectly sharp and steady panning shots, dolly shots, handheld, the works. I even shot handheld out the sunroof of a van doing 100kph and its smooth as anything.

 

[shaun1970]

With all due respect, Barry - you're being so enormously biased against the EX1, that I find it hard to believe you don't have your own agenda in it (guess which).

Below $15,000 there is no single camera that could even be compared with the XDCAM-EX. POINT.

Big call mate, real big. Take off the blinders.

 

[Buck Forester]

...it would indeed have the potential to be the hvx killer

Hi doofalot! Real quick... I gotta run, but I've never shot with another 'serious' camera (although I like my little HC9) so I have no idea how it compares to the HVX, nor do I really care how it compares to other cameras because I know this EX1 is more than I was ever hoping for when I decided I wanted to go into video production. It's stunning! I'm beside myself with excitement as I dream of what I'll be doing with this thing! I'm sure I'd be super excited with another high-end camera too... because it's an "EX1" or "Sony" doesn't matter to me, never has... my point has always been to give 'fair' assessments of cameras with no personal bias and I was seeing a lot of unwarranted bias. I'm not fond of the term "HVX killer" because I'm sure the HVX is a fantastic camera and no camera will 'kill' another. The biggest threat to the current HVX will be the next model of HVX. But this EX1 is crazy awesome and it feels SO good in my hands! After I get out and shoot some serious footage and learn how to upload it, I'm sure I'll inundate you with links, ha! I don't know if that'll be a week or two or ten... I have a BIG learning curve ahead of me! ROCK-N-ROLL! Dream it and SHOOT IT!

 

[basspig]

Im not a fan of the EX1, we shot all weekend long...Your basic product w/ talent in the background shots. I see noise in the footage even when there was enough light to go negative gain.

I didn't have any issues with the shutter or sensors, just the noise in the footage got to me.

This sounds like a case of badly-misadjusted gamma, as we used an EX1 to shoot a stage production against two HVR-V1Us last Saturday, and I'm looking at the edit on a 47" screen and the EX1 footage simply looks like I'm seeing with my own eyes (as if 20/20 vision) instead of a camera--there is no visible noise anywhere in the picture.

Now to achieve this, I carefully studied all the parameters in the picture profile menu see THIS DOCUMENT. Adjusting the Crispening properly can, combined with avoiding excessive black stretch, produce some of the cleanest video images you may ever see, all with the EX1.

It is also possible that you were looking at the component (analog) output on a monitor. I think the component output of this camera is not so good. Best way to judge the picture is to copy the files off the SxS cards and bring them directly into an editor that can play them out to a huge monitor.

I recently watched a Blu-ray disc I produced, on a Sony FullHD projection system to an 82" Stuart screen and it looks fantastic--I mean unbelieveable for video--just like watching something between 35mm and 70mm film in terms of cleanness and detail acuity. The EX1, in competent hands, can produce images with no visible noise, and tremendous detail. Be patient, learn the camera's controls, digest every document you can find on the camera's featrures (the link above is a good start) and experiment. You will do much better once you know the camera's tools and can optimize results.

 

[lawriejaffa]

"Below $15,000 there is no single camera that could even be compared with the XDCAM-EX. POINT."

This kind of partisan view is the stuff of fanboys - certainly my lol stands, it can't be taken even remotely seriously. There are some guys here that really need to stop getting off from their ego's (i mean theres a private place for that...)

So far Buck your in the lead... I can't turn a page hehe without seeing you go oooon and ooooon about the same gibbery defensive rubbish!

We get it - some folk with the EX believes it is made by Zeus itself and that no problems exist whatsoever and that its just exaggerated by... pfft Karl Rove or something hehe. Others are frustrated that it can do so much well - and so much not well - almost a camera of extremes!

I consider Barry Green a voice of reason as do most on these forums. So thats why I and most here would reject criticisms of bias, there not, their opinions of preference...

 

[DREWjoseph82]

I know its already been dragged on and on and on, but I am still researching the EX1 and its rolling shutter and came across this example.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=123857

I know its the Sony Z7, not the EX1, but seeing as its still a Sony CMOS camera, I dont think there would be a huge difference.

To me, the amount of camera shake is not much. You see a lot more in action oriented cinema productions. The image looks fantastic, but that skew...is definitely noticeable.

 

[seunosewa]

Barry really hates the Ex1

 

[Barry_Green]

Barry really hates the Ex1

Sorry, no.

I hate the way Sony conducts themselves, yes. But the EX1 is a decent product. Certainly the most competitive product they've released since the PD150.

It is not the all-hallowed super-ultimate "best camera on the planet under $15,000"; instead it's a decent product that produces very very sharp pictures and has hideous ergonomics, quality control problems, and a rolling shutter. And I do hate rolling shutters. I wish it was possible to get the other results (pixel density, cost, power consumption) without having to have a rolling shutter. But it's not. So if you want those things, you have to pay the piper. I don't like the price that the piper asks. Some folks don't even notice it. Great for them.

 

[Buck Forester]

Lawriejaffa... your posts speak volumes. It's sorta strange... hmmm... that you're an obvious big Panny fanboy (not that there's anything wrong with that, more power to you, great company!) but you spend the majority of your time not in HVX threads, but in 'bashing EX1' threads. One can could easily conclude a sense of envy and frustration by your posts... laughing at other people's opinions, spending your time in EX1 threads, dog piling over and over on the same issues that have nothing to do with what you're shooting with, etc. It's funny... I think the HVX is a great camera despite its inherent weaknesses, and I think the Canon's are great too... no bashing of cameras from me. But if one simply says, "the EX1 is NOT AS BAD as it's portrayed", then the attacks come. Ha! Well, hey, admittedly this is a Panny site. It's cool. But simply saying the EX1 is not so bad sure pisses a lot of you guys off! There's gotta be something psychological behind it but I'm no mind doctor. And I'm sure not saying the reverse about any other cameras... if you're shooting an HVX, good choice! I wish you'd link to your homepage or any of your work in your profile, I'd love to see it. Best of luck out there. GOOoOOO Panasonic!