I can not get HD out of the HPX300

Barry read my postings back at the end of 2009. The first thing I did after receiving the cam was hiring a dedicated HD monitor with all the mojo like vector scope etc. and checked and set the back focus. To be honest it is still a difficult job even with the HD monitor but I set it as good as possible which turned out to be about maybe a tenth of a millimeter offset on the settings on the lens. So I hink that is ok as I already mentioned in the beginning of this thread.

look at www.vimeo.com/15737268 (this the video using the wrong iris settings) and www.vimeo.com/15847535 (after applying the recommendations concerning the f setting and increasing the detail level from +1 to +2, reducing detail corning from +5 to +2 and switching off "skin detail"). The latter video (which is still converting at vimeo when I write this) is better but to me still not as good as i have seen on this site from other members). The focus in the second clip was set on the fontain. Any tips are more than welcome.
 
Last edited:
You can't just set backfocus once. You have to check and set it all the time. Especially on a smaller-chip camera. Backfocus can be affected by temperature; the hotter the lens gets, the more the metal expands, and -- whoops, there goes your backfocus. Or as it gets colder, the metal contracts, and -- whoops, backfocus is off again.

Check your backfocus frequently.
 
I don't believe that every member with a HPX300 on this forum checks the back focus everytime before a shoot (probably most of them even never checked it at all !!). So I have to hire a HD monitor every time because you can not do it on the LCD of the cam and to be honest not even very accurate on a HD Marshal monitor !!!!! Moreover if it is so sensitive than you even have to set the back focus at shooting location after conditioning the camera for a few hours. No I think I make another mistake. I will try to upload the best wide shot I could make and would like to know if this is the best the HPX300 can do.

try to upload the video but Vimeo makes s..t of it, very strange !! will try further

anyway i will do a check of the back focus tomorrow anyway just to be sure.
 
Last edited:
I certainly don't check my back focus every week and have set up the camera just using its own LCD viewfinder, I also have about a tenth of a millimeter adjustment on the ring..

Your footage doesn't look right to me, it is about two stops over exposed and I can see pixelation on the water in the middle even at 1080p, it also looks very flat and lacking in contrast and definition. What were your settings and workflow?

To compare here is a clip I did as a test shot at AVC Intra 100 1080i 25np with the BBC film settings > loaded into FCP native via log and transfer > exported straight from FCP as a quicktime pro res HQ master > saved in QT for web/apple TV at 1280x720p 5mbs

http://vimeo.com/5014764
 
Last edited:
Hoi Gary,

You footage looks indeed much and much better than mine. Pixalation is probably due to youtube it is not there in orignal footage. Yes it is overexposed. I exported strait from FCP as H263, 20 Mbs, 1920*1080/25p. The setting are :


Scenefile CINE D
Resolutie 1080
Codec AVC-I-100
DETAIL LEVEL +2
V DETAIL LEVEL +2
DETAIL CORING +1
CHROMA LEVEL -2
CHROMA PHASE 0
COLOR TEMP A-CH 0
COLOR TEMP B-CH 0
MASTER PED 0
A.IRIS LEVEL -3 (used manual iris)
DRS effect +3 (but this does not work in 1080 right)
GAMMA CINELIKE-D
KNEE high
MATRIX Cinelike
SKIN TONE DTL off
V DETAIL FREQ THIN
Zebra 1 70%
Zebra 2 90%
FRAME RATE 25p
SHUTTER OFF
GAIN -3 dB
white balance manual/ white
Flash band compensation OFF
ND 3
iris smaller than F/4 value
 
Here are my settings for the vimeo clip and all my 25np shooting:

Scenefile BBC FLM
Resolutie 1080
Codec AVC-I-100
DETAIL LEVEL -4
V DETAIL LEVEL 0
DETAIL CORING 0
CHROMA LEVEL -4
CHROMA PHASE 0
COLOR TEMP A-CH 0
COLOR TEMP B-CH 0
MASTER PED +3
A.IRIS LEVEL 0
DRS effect +3
GAMMA CINELIKE-D (I also have a high contrast pre-set with this set at CINELIKE-V)
KNEE high
MATRIX Cinelike
SKIN TONE DTL off
V DETAIL FREQ THIN
Zebra 1 65%
Zebra 2 85%
FRAME RATE 25np
SHUTTER 50
GAIN -3 dB
white balance manual/ white
Flash band compensation OFF
ND 4
iris value smaller than F/4 (I tend to shoot at f2.8-f3.5 most of the time)
 
Last edited:
According to my manual DRS does not work in 1080 only in 720 mode.
So you even decrease "artificial sharpening", cool that even than you can get so sharp results !!!
A.Iris level has no influence because you set the iris manual, right ?

Why do you set the shutter at 1/50 instead of the 1/25 sec. ?? Because you can open the iris more ???

So in pronciple the only difference with my settings is that you have lower "sharpening settings".
hmmm so maybe something is wrong with my cam !!!!

GaryNattrass said:
Here are my settings for the vimeo clip and all my 25np shooting:

Scenefile BBC FLM
Resolutie 1080
Codec AVC-I-100
DETAIL LEVEL -4
V DETAIL LEVEL 0
DETAIL CORING 0
CHROMA LEVEL -4
CHROMA PHASE 0
COLOR TEMP A-CH 0
COLOR TEMP B-CH 0
MASTER PED +3
A.IRIS LEVEL 0
DRS effect +3
GAMMA CINELIKE-D (I also have a high contrast pre-set with this set at CINELIKE-V)
KNEE high
MATRIX Cinelike
SKIN TONE DTL off
V DETAIL FREQ THIN
Zebra 1 65%
Zebra 2 85%
FRAME RATE 25np
SHUTTER 50
GAIN -3 dB
white balance manual/ white
Flash band compensation OFF
ND 4
iris value smaller than F/4 (I tend to shoot at f2.8-f3.5 most of the time)
Click to expand...
 
All my pre-sets are based on me being ex broadcast and when I have the advice from one of the main HD experts in the world Alan Roberts who is also ex BBC I trust him and set my camera as he says.

A shutter of 1/50 is the standard 180 degree shutter and if you were using a film camera that is what would happen as the mirror spins around exposing the film stock every 180 degrees of its rotation.

I am an ex sound engineer with a lot of still and film expertise but the science and principles are what Alan is all about and I found him to be right 100% of the time.

I set my aperture manual but also use the auto button to check it and see what the comparison is with my filmic BBC zebra levels.

One thing to check is that your lens has been attatched and locked to the camera correctly as any movement here will affect you images too.

As I said it may be that your camera is faulty as I have found the 301 to be a superb camera and as I come from film background even CMOS skew is not a factor for most of my work at full 1080i 25np HD.
 
I can not send my cam for repair because i need it so I will accept that it is not as sharp as it could be. I will first try to make money and than will go for a 2/3" cam because one thing is clear to me the HPX300 is not suitable to make really "high DOF" footage while retaining HD quality and that is what i need (maybe the EX3 with its 1/2" chips is a bit better in this respect, maybe something to consider).
 
You will not get much more shallow DOF from the 1/2" EX3 and the HD pictures are not as good as the 301 in my experience.

Maybe the new AF100 will be your best bet or the HPX500 replacement that must be due soon.

I re state that I think your camera is faulty as I have done full broadcast 1080 HD with the 301 and have had no complaints and the HD pictures on my HD TV via HD/SDI are superb.

Check your warranty as panasonic may be able to give you a loan camera whilst yours is being checked, even better get onto your dealer and say you are not happy with it and get them to check it out.
 
Last edited:
to the contrary, "i want more DOF not shallow DOF" and according to Barry the lager the chips are the smaller the iris you can use and still get HD quality !! With the HPX300 you can not go to smaller iris openings than f/4 without sacrificing resolution (due to diffractions since the small HD pixels on a 1/3" chip are more sensitive to diffraction than HD pixels of a larger sensor). So in principle 1/2" chips should be better than 1/3" chips in this respect (accordig to Barry's theory)
 
But with best respects to try and shoot HD video with what is probably a faulty camera is not a way to judge it?

If you want less shallow DOF then a 1/2" or 2/3" camera will not do that either as video is not like stills and stopping down to f8 on them will give the same dof effect as f4 on the 301. As for resolution all video camera lenses work best wider open than stills lenses so if the you want the max resolution on any video camera the wider open you shoot the better.

And why? I have never found that I have run out of DOF with my 301 and most people complain that 1/3" chips do not give them enough shallow DOF so a larger chip will not help.

Maybe a wide angle lens is what you need but if your camera is broken anyway you are wasting your time trying to chase resolution problems.

As I said you need to get it checked by your supplier or the manufacturer and if the camera is OK then you made the wrong purchase choice and should have done more research before you bought it.
 
Getting deep focus is trivially easy on the HPX300/370. You don't even have to try. Set it on AVC-Intra100, 1080/25p. Put the lens at maximum wide angle (4.5mm), and open the iris up to f/2.8. Set your focus distance at 3 meters or 10 feet. At that point, everything from 2 feet to infinity will be in sharp focus.

If you're not getting sharp imagery out of yours using those settings... check your backfocus, try a different lens, or try a different camera. Because unless there's something seriously wrong, you should be getting razor-crisp images from that setup.
 
Sorry barry it is not the case with my cam. If I set f/2.8 and focus on something on 10 meter and get wide again something at 11 meter is completely out of focus !!!! I don't thinkl this has anything to do with the backfocus. You just can not have DOF at a f/4 - open.

edit : just checked the back focus again and it seems ok. By the way is there a way to connect my imac directctly to the cam so I can do it more accurately? If not, is it possible to get the life image from the cam to a consumer HD display (LCD or plasma), what input connector should the HD screen have and do I use the SDI of the cam?


Barry_Green said:
Getting deep focus is trivially easy on the HPX300/370. You don't even have to try. Set it on AVC-Intra100, 1080/25p. Put the lens at maximum wide angle (4.5mm), and open the iris up to f/2.8. Set your focus distance at 3 meters or 10 feet. At that point, everything from 2 feet to infinity will be in sharp focus.

If you're not getting sharp imagery out of yours using those settings... check your backfocus, try a different lens, or try a different camera. Because unless there's something seriously wrong, you should be getting razor-crisp images from that setup.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
I normally do my back focus using the star chart which came with the cam at approx 8-10 feet. I use the camera's lcd but i use the focus assist to zoom into the image and just look at the center
of the chart. Works very well for me.

Zoom in focus, pull right back and adjust the back focus til its sharp on the lcd, using focus assist its very easy. funny thing is it almost always lines up with the standard focus line on the lens anyway lol.

p.s. i think what Barry was suggesting is very similar to using hyperfocal focussing on slr's....seee this link

http://www.dofmaster.com/hyperfocal.html
 
Last edited:
If I set f/2.8 and focus on something on 10 meter and get wide again something at 11 meter is completely out of focus
Click to expand...
Something is very wrong - back focus set quite a bit away from optimum would do this easily - even with the lens opened up to 2.8 the difference between 11 and 10m is not really a lot.

One thing you could check - how close to the distance markings on the lens are you - if you are wide then with the image sharp (which you've said it is at 10m) is the focus ring on or near to 10? The rotation to go from 10 to 11m is quite small.

Being frank - you need to get the camera checked by the dealer or somebody else who's camera experience is deep. Only then can you start to work out what is happening. It's kind of like we know you're ill, but the symptoms are just 'not well'
 
Just noticed Cees you said you were focussing at 10 METERS Barry said 10 FEET, could make a differance?

But it does sound like the back focus is out a bit tho.
 
Sorry but when using even focus assist (zoom) in wide position, the center of the star is at most 1 mm in size on the cam lcd and this is just the important part of the star which is in focus or blurred. (the outside of the Siemens star is always sharp in wide postion even if you turn the focus ring completely (I exagerate of coarse a little now)) and you can not judge it even not on a 9 inch Marshel HD monitor (I have tried it, been there). I think you need a blackmagic HDSDI to HDMI mini convertor (which are by the way rather expensive) and hook your cam on a 40 - 50 inch HD LCS or plasma display and do the backfocus correction.

Garion said:
I normally do my back focus using the star chart which came with the cam at approx 8-10 feet. I use the camera's lcd but i use the focus assist to zoom into the image and just look at the center
of the chart. Works very well for me.

Zoom in focus, pull right back and adjust the back focus til its sharp on the lcd, using focus assist its very easy. funny thing is it almost always lines up with the standard focus line on the lens anyway lol.

p.s. i think what Barry was suggesting is very similar to using hyperfocal focussing on slr's....seee this link

http://www.dofmaster.com/hyperfocal.html
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Garion said:
Just noticed Cees you said you were focussing at 10 METERS Barry said 10 FEET, could make a differance?

But it does sound like the back focus is out a bit tho.
Click to expand...



When I was talking about 10 meter I was not talking about backfocus correction but use of the cam in real life conditions


I tried backfocus correction at smaller distances than 3 meter (10 feet) and using the Siemens star from www.truelens.co.uk which is a larger version of the siemens star than came with the HPX300, it still is not possible.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top