FS7: Hypergammas + F55 Matrix

M

MasterOfWombats

New member
Hi everyone, I work for a company that shoot lots of different stuff, and we've been owning the Sony FS7 pretty much since it was available. While we shoot the more carefully crafted stuff in CINE EI/Slog3, we also do a lot of construction/documentary filming, where shooting in Slog is not really needed, and the footage has to go straight into post production.

I did some tests myself and we've been shooting (in custom mode) mostly with a combination of HG3 plus the F55 709 matrix, and I found that it gives a pretty good result with that kind of footage. Is this the right way to do it or am I missing something? I've watched many tutorials about HyperGammas and Matrix and it seemed the way to go, avoiding a flat image and delivering ready-to-edit footage.

What is everyone here using when ready-to-edit footage is required?

Thanks
 
I wouldn't recommend using HG3 because it only has 325% dynamic range. HG7 and HG8 are much better because they offer 800% dynamic range. The F55 709 matrix can be good when it is paired with other paint menu settings that compliment it, but you've only mentioned two settings out of about a dozen different things that ought be changed to craft a nice WYSIWYG scene file.
 
Like Doug mentioned, HG 7/8 are the two widest HG's available. I often shoot in HG7 in low light, and HG8 when there's plenty of light. In HG 7/8 you get about 10 stops of dynamic range (theoretically ~9.6-ish I believe).

I don't find myself in too many situations where I want to expose for 14 full stops, so using my 300/600 mb/s, spread over 10 stops (instead of 14) gives me more robust images (and a larger safety margin when trying to balance shadows and highlights). Some here never take their camera out of S-Log3/S-Gamut.cine, and they probably wouldn't like my rationale.

I've used the F55 709 matrix settings with HG 7/8, but the colors feel oversaturated to me. I like the way the "Cinema" color gamma looks with HG 7/8, and "Standard" seems a little less saturated than the "F55 709 like."

I don't mess with the paint settings much after I initially tested them, so there might be a lot I'm missing. I really wish Sony would allow the FS7 to pair S-Log3 with the S-Gamut/3.cine color spaces in custom mode. I shoot with an a6300 and a7sII that both have that option, and it would be nice to have for matching cameras (and using those better color gamuts).
 
Master of Wombats.. Your Grace.. I too shoot (with an F5) .. using your exact same settings.. Custom.. F55 709 like gamma.. HG3 for interiors and HG4 for ext.. for shoots where I know there wont be much grading.. and Im not sure of the skill of the person doing it either.. to cover my own arse after I hand over a HDD and then am no longer part of the process..this will pretty much guarantee a good image.. as long as I haven't screwed up exposure,focus etc.. if you are part of the post then you could try the 7 & 8.. give you a bit more dynamic range.. but only really needed if that range is there in the first place..
So in answer I dont see you are doing anything wrong.. you could go to HG4 for ext.. or as Doug suggests ,really go to town on the paint menu,s and craft a specific look.. but I guess you need the time and very good monitors etc to make sure your look doesn't look like crap on everyone's else monitors !
 
Donny 123 said:
Master of Wombats.. Your Grace.. I too shoot (with an F5) .. using your exact same settings.. Custom.. F55 709 like gamma.. HG3 for interiors and HG4 for ext.. for shoots where I know there wont be much grading.. and Im not sure of the skill of the person doing it either.. to cover my own arse after I hand over a HDD and then am no longer part of the process..this will pretty much guarantee a good image.. as long as I haven't screwed up exposure,focus etc.. if you are part of the post then you could try the 7 & 8.. give you a bit more dynamic range.. but only really needed if that range is there in the first place..
So in answer I dont see you are doing anything wrong.. you could go to HG4 for ext.. or as Doug suggests ,really go to town on the paint menu,s and craft a specific look.. but I guess you need the time and very good monitors etc to make sure your look doesn't look like crap on everyone's else monitors !
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In your opinion HG 7 and 8 require more post work than HG 3 and 4?
 
broughtonfilm said:
In your opinion HG 7 and 8 require more post work than HG 3 and 4?
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No .. I guess in theory you have to expose a bit more accurately as the compression starts earlier to get 800%.. I just think if you dont need 12 stops.. like an Int interview ..and its footage thats going to just get a bit of tweaking in post..you might as well use the less aggressive curve..
 
Donny 123 said:
I just think if you dont need 12 stops.. like an Int interview ..and its footage thats going to just get a bit of tweaking in post..you might as well use the less aggressive curve..
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In that scenario I wouldn't use any of the Hypergammas at all. STD5 is a really nice gamma for WYSIWYG interviews and other situations where the lighting is controlled and a wide dynamic range is not needed.
 
Doug Jensen said:
In that scenario I wouldn't use any of the Hypergammas at all. STD5 is a really nice gamma for WYSIWYG interviews and other situations where the lighting is controlled and a wide dynamic range is not needed.
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Ok interesting.. is that based on personally you like the color .. or also some more technical reason.. to do with that particular gama... I guess I have avoided it due to the knee.. but as you say if its controlled then that wouldn't be a worry..
 
Compared to the HG curves STD 5 is much safer for faces during a typical comtrolled interview setup. With the HG cruves the compression starts lower in the exposure so must be careful not to over expose your mid-range or else you might push faces and skin tones etc into the compressed part of the curve. There's just no benefit to using an HG curve if you don't need the extended dynamic range or have uncontolled highlights to deal with.

BTW, knee should always be turned off with any of the gamma modes. Some of them do it automatically (hypergammas) but you need to make sure to disable it yourself with the standard curves.
 
I agree that for controlled interviews unless you have highlights (lamps) that are over 100 that STD5 often looks best and gives the best flesh qualities. Hypergammas can create compression on fleshtones if you get into the 70% IRE area.
I get very good facial tones from my own Matrix settings and have seen others do fine even with the matrix zero'd out.

Sometimes hot colored objects (try an orange) will look supersaturated in STD5 though and in those cases a hypergamma will be helpful in desaturating highlights but start with the less compressed versions to avoid the compression on faces.

I disagree about Knee completely - but they should ALWAYS be on manual and not be aggressive. I set mine at 50% slope and 92 point and have never had a problem. Lower knees are very dangerous. Occasionally for a specific shot I will lower it but be careful not to compress faces or other bright areas that will start looking weird. Turning Knee off gives you a TK76.

By the way there are people here who will tell you that you can't get good flesh tones in Custom and you have to use Slog for faces. I find this incorrect and when I posted examples no one here could tell the difference between my Custom faces and Slog shots. You just have to know how to shot traditional video I guess. Watch your saturation, black level and even your phase settings.
 
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