HVX200a with Canon EOS RedRock M2 Encore

Renee

Renee

Active member
Hi everyone. Here is my follow up thread!

The boss likes the idea of a M2 Encore instead of getting a 2nd camera.

I currently have Canon EOS lenses at my disposal. (18-55mm F2.8, 50mm F1.8)


I have a few questions- I did some searching on the board regarding these topics, but I thought it would be nice to have a conversation about it anyway.



Will the M2 give me the look I want? I see conflicting accounts on the internet when I search for it.
The HVX already craves lots of light to hide the noise, and I'm afraid the M2 Encore cutting out half a stop will make my life difficult.


I do not want an inch wide DOF- I want wide enough to get a full person in focus, but to get nice bokeh in the background.

So what can of worms am I opening with purchasing this?

Also, I don't seem to see a 82mm ring included with the M2 Encore Canon package on Adorama: http://www.adorama.com/RRM2EEOS43.html
Which step up ring do I need for my HVX?

Thanks, you guys rock.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for your help- but I want the Canon mount, and I'm not sure my company would allow a direct purchase like that. We have very complicated purchasing rules. ;]
 
Mostly interviews between two people, software / hardware shots, convention center crowds and b-roll of cool stuff happening at them.
 
If you use the EOS lenses, you'll have no aperture control.
They are electronically controlled by the EOS body.

The only workaround (which I'm doing with the AF100) is to put the lens on the Canon body, set the aperture (wide open, if that's what you need), hold the DOF preview on the Canon body, remove the lens, then put it on your adapter.

It works in controlled situations (like interviews), but there is no fine tuning on the camera, other than Film Cam/Synchro Scan Shutter, making minor adjustments +/- 180 Degrees, which aren't too noticeable. But you'd want to avoid major shutter adjustments which will affect motion blur.

And, like you mentioned, more lights.
Hope this helps, good luck!
 
Extremely helpful groveChuck! Do I have zero aperature control then with EOS? Or do I still have my HVX's aperture control / ND filters, et al?
 
Hey Renee- I know the EOS lenses from using them with the AF100 (and on the Canon body), but I don't know the adapter side so well (somebody here can help, hopefully).

But my limited understanding of adapters is that you set the HVX iris so you don't see the ground glass, so I don't think you have a lot of flexibility there.

ND filters are no problem, but shooting interiors, I don't imagine you'll use them at all.

You CAN control the EOS aperture, just not while on the adapter.
"Controlling" it consists of putting it on the Canon body, setting aperture, holding the DOF preview button, removing the lens, putting it on the adapter.
A major PITA you may have gathered.

That's why I originally suggested, in controlled lighting situations like interviews, you might want to open the EOS aperture all the way and go from there.
Convention center lighting could change in different areas, or it might be pretty consistent- hard to say.

The other alternative (if your boss is absolutely committed to the adapter scenario) is to buy a couple of cheap, used Canon FD lenses.
They have a manual, mechanical aperture ring. I got a 50mm f1.8 for $35 on ebay.
A zoom would cost more, but if you're interested, look on ebay and KEH.com

The adapters have a great look, just be aware they're a PITA, have limitations, create a larger, more unwieldy rig, and are a bit of a step backwards tech-wise (plus the EOS PITA).

HTH and hope you get some adapter help, and keep us posted!
 
I also know EOS from having canon DSLRs. I also have a lensbaby which requires applying different sized discs for changing aperture. That too, can be a pain! ;] I've gotten pretty good at guessing metering in my head however.

FDs aren't compatible with EOS bodies as far as I understand - does the AF100 allow you to use both, or do you have an adapter? And just for my curiosity- what's your storage workflow with the AF-100, what do you record to?


Most of my shots are indoor and locked off- so lighting should be consistent throughout the entire shot. I could feasibly fumble with an EOS lens for a fem minutes to set the right aperture and be happy with it for the situation.
But I can see this being out of the question if I go roaming- the lighting in the convention centers I go to has been very different from spot to spot.


Your advice is supremely helpful! That's why I started this thread- I wanted to talk it out before making the leap. I'm less sure now that ever! :]
 
The AF100 has a Micro 4/3 mount, so I have an FD to M4/3 adapter and an EF to M4/3adapter (EOS is actually the line of cameras and EF is the lenses).

True, FD lenses are incompatible on EOS bodies- the FDs would be strictly for the video system.

But if/when you get an M2 adapter, you need to decide what lens mount to get on the front of it.
I think they're basically either Canon or Nikon manual lens mounts.

You might (and again, my adapter knowledge is sketchy) be able to get a mount for one lens system (say, FD to M2), then have an EF to FD adapter (on the M2 adapter!) for the EF lenses,
that is if you wanted to use both lens systems...

Maybe for your locked off/interview situations, you could bring the EOS body, start off with a 2.8 aperture, if it's not right, take it off, stop down one stop, put it back on the M2, etc... But I just wanted to throw the FDs out there as an inexpensive alternative (and to add more choices to your plate- ha ha!).

The AF100 records to SD cards- less expensive, but supposedly less reliable than P2 (knock on wood- I haven't lost anything yet!).
A third party adapter (Birger adapter) is under under development to let the AF100 "communicate" with EF lenses for iris control, and as an option, wireless follow focus control.
Problem is, it was supposed to come out December/Jan when the camera did, but they missed that (and a few other) release dates. I also have an HPX170 that I still use frequently for gigs (like 2 days ago).

It's good you're doing your homework on the adapter before rushing into it, and every system has its advantages and disadvantages.
Ideally, you'd rent/borrow one to see if it's a good fit for your workflow...

Edit: oops, I forgot there's a Kipon EF to m4/3 adapter, I don't know if there would be something like that for an M2.
It's basically just an aperture/diaphragm that goes between the lens and camera that gives you some limited adjustability- it vignettes when stopped down...
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the correction. I'm not a huge lens nerd. ;]
I was considering exactly what you mentioned, using both lens systems with adapters. Do the adapters come with any disadvantages, cut f-stops, or vignetting?

I'm still a bit uncertain on what will work best with my existing workflow, and how I can compliment it, not complicate it!

Again I really thank you for all your help!
 
Lens nerds are among the worst! ;^)

Most lens adapters are just a physical connection to adapt one type lens mount to another- a very short tube with different types of lens mounts on each end.

This is the type (but not actual same manufacturer) I have to adapt FD to m4/3. They're like $35 on ebay. Some people have had problems with them being loose, which could let light leak in. Mine is nice and tight (but not so tight it's hard to get off).
These neither cut nor control light.
$%28KGrHqJ,%21mIE3Hk8GCrVBN-8ieJmtw%7E%7E0_12.JPG


This is a Kipon, it has an aperture, but notice the adjustments on the ring are 1, 2, 3 not f2.8 etc.
$150-$200. They vignette once you stop down past a certain point- I'm not exactly sure when it starts vignetting
d0d9468bris_adapter-450x422.png


I'm not sure if Kipon makes an adapter for EF to FD, if you got an M2 with a Canon mount, which I think means FD mount, since 35mm adapters are designed for use with manual (mechanical.not electronic) still lenses.

OK, I just Googled "ef lens to fd body adapter" since the front of the M2 would be like a camera body, and need the appropriate mount.
I couldn't find one (at a quick glance), though there's lots of FD lens to EOS body adapters, which won't help you.

Maybe you should talk to the Redrock people with any questions about EF lenses or other issues?

Glad to help, plenty have helped me. I just wish some adapter users (there are/were lots of them) would chime in here!

 
Last edited:
i have to tell you. i think your situation would be just as well served with a DSLR rather than video camera with adapter. probably as cheap (or cheaper) and in your case, easier to manage.
 
^ That's what I thought too. She had another thread asking for a 2nd camera to match an HVX- I suggested AF100 or GH2, which, Renee, you still might want to consider.
Will you (or your editor) be doing much color grading, where you can work at getting the cameras looking similar?
If there's any way you can rent the various options available, it could make your future much easier!
 
as mentioned in another thread. i have a canon 60d. a gh2 and an hpx170 with an sgblade adapter. and each has their own strengths and weaknesses.

ive been gearing up to do some side by side comparison shooting with all three. i did some STILL shots a couple weeks ago and with the right glass, was able to get images from the gh2 that were on par with the 60d. so i would imagine that with some planning and a bit of post effort, one could get a reasonable match to an hvx if needed...

and if i were shooting events, interviews and trade shows. where i was setting up, breaking down and moving around a lot. lugging around an hvx+adapter+lenses would NOT be my first choice.
 
wgzn, using a DSLR is not out of the question. I shot on a t2i last year. I guess mic input is my main concern and that's why lean towards using the HVX. I like being able to run multiple channels. The audio also sounds cleaner from the HVX- and I'm supremely novice at audio fixes in post. I try my best to make sure my audio is perfect going in because of my lack of expertise . . .

I've seen DSLR solutions to this- but I'm not practically familiar with the workflow surrounding them. Do you have suggestions I could take a peek at?

groveChuck I guess for the AF-100 it's a bummer I can't use my CitidiskHD. I've really started to fall in love with it's simpleness. I've got a thread on the Redrock Micro forum, but they're more trying to sell me than work out possible issues. ;] can't say I blame them.


Err, then there is my really sweet 11inch Marshall monitor. How can I possibly shoot without it?
 
yeah, the lack of "standard" audio is one of the bigger DSLR roadblocks.

there are a lot of things you can do. with SOME canon's there is a "hack" you can use called magic lantern that gives you live meters and allows you to kill the built in acg
and there are a number of decent small stereo mics people enjoy with most any dslr. but always, what one person loves, another may hate. so...

then there is the subject of external recorders. but it sounds to me that you probably wouldnt want to go through that effort in post.

in reality, there isnt really anything one can reasonably (if at all) do to get multi-channel, on-board audio like youre used to with the hvx with any current dslr

so that gets us back to the redrock discussion. in my testing with the same nikkor lens used on my gh2 and on my sgblde connected to my hpx170. i have conversationally more room to move on the dslr than the hpx+adapter. from what i hear there isnt a great deal of difference between the M2 and the blade as far as light loss. but i could be mistaken there.

every one of the options discussed here is either one compromise or another. the dslr is smaller an easier in one respect but an hvx+adapter is going to behave more like youre used to.
a dslr will be better in low light. but youve got to dick around with the audio workarounds. and we havent even discussed aliasing and moire...

i cant help but feel im introducing more questions than answering them. maybe i should just shut up ; )
 
Last edited:
No way you guys are awesome. I understand there's not a perfect workflow. I'm just trying to work with what I got in the best way I can.

It's a weird time right now with DSLRs vs video cams.
 
lens brand and model adapters on dslrs is a whole other discussion. im not sure if this is 100% across the board, but often an adapted lens wont benefit from the aperture control, autofocus, ois or any of the other benefits of using a lens on the body line it was intended. in many cases, not a big deal. but if you were run and gunning at a trade show, some cameras can be hard to get correct focus with. there are only 2 canon models (7d and a very high end stills model, the 1dmk something or other) that send out an HD signal via hdmi while recording. as i understand, thats because those 2 actually use one chip to shoot and one to monitor. the rest send a smaller SD image out. trying to focus while recording on my 60d sending hdmi out to my smallhd dp1 is damned near impossible. you nearly have to fudge it on both sides so you can see the lesser evil in the middle mud thats actually focused ; )

the gh2 has by far the best autofocus while recording. but its got its share of compromises as well. (though IMO not as many as the canons)
 
Renee- didn't you say in this or the other thread you had $5-10k to spend?

That will get you an AF100 and Birger adapter (for about $5500, I believe).

And that will get you:
Use of EF lenses (I'm cautiously optimistic the Birger will be out within 2 months- hopefully I won't be eating my words...)
Use of nearly any other lens system with an adapter
HDMI and HD-SDI out for HD monitoring
Shallow (but not silly shallow ala 5DMk2) DOF
Virtually no moire
Overcrank/undercrank for in camera slo mo/time lapse (shoot a trade show/convention from above with time lapse of people coming in or setting up- pretty cool stuff!)
2 XLR audio inputs, just like the HVX
It's a video camera that shoots filmic video, not a stills camera
SD cards
+ more, but that's all I can think of for now
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top