Flash Beaver
Well-known member
Why the 150...
Why the 150...
The four cameras I've worked with in varying degrees were the Sony Ex-1 and the Canon HF10 and a Nikon D90 and a Sony HVR-V1u. They may not all respond equally but to ME they were all equally unacceptable for the work I do. Not to say the pictures on the ex-1 weren't beautiful, and not that beautiful work hasn't been done on any of these but they did not work for ME. The HVR-V1u was with me for three months. I loved this camera as a first HD camera, but for me HDV sucked. I hated what it did to water and I can never go back to tape.
I can suggest the HMC150 for all the great reasons I could suggest a 170. There are a some differences in features but if the 150 were available then, knowing what I know now from my own experience I would have gone the HMC150. But I'm already equipped to handle the 170 and I have the infrastructure and its older brothers around it.
Dude, I have a four core 2007 mac running the latest FCP. My avccam dumped to ProRes in a breeze. It was even faster than my MXF files are wrapped to quicktime files. In FCP you DO NOT edit native AVCCAM. Even if I could I wouldn't, just like I would never edit native HDV. The only thing that didn't get brought over was my timecode, but its not something that I missed.
I worked with some clips that I shot very briefly and the raw footage that came from from both the Panny DVD and the brief clips I shot in 720 were nearly indistinguishable from my HVX200a. And the clips color corrected beautifully even for being 4:2:0! I was a happy camper. Understand, if I didn't have a dozen and half batteries and a handful of P2 cards, I would be running the HMC150. But I have a tapeless workflow that I'm happy with and gets a lot of work done. For me the HMC150 would be just fine too.
I'm glad you like it. Yes there is grading going on, it looks even better at our local theater. And that's on a downconvert SD DVD playing on a monster sized screen. It all comes down to your skillset, your style, your will to make your content great.
Look at some of the incredible stuff that was shot on a DVX100 and then you get to watch some of the crap that comes from an F900 that makes you want to vomit.
Every time, its the people on and off set. I've seen work out there and right on this site from both EX users and HVX users. And the really great stuff....well those people are going to get incredible and sellable results REGARDLESS of what camera.
Case in point, there is this guy Buck Forester on here whos stuff leaves me speechless. I could stare at his flckr pics all day. I don't know Buck and I've never met Buck or spoken with him on this board. But I know that whatever camera Buck Forester uses, his images will still leave me spechless. It just so happens that the EX1 is the tool he's found to match HIS STYLE.
Would an Ex1 or the D90 work for me in MY STLE? No it would certainly not. Based on my personal experience it would not do well in a speeding boat in the Pacific, it would probably not do well in the helicopters we ride in
Do yourself a favor ask your employer what their needs really are. Ask them what their customers are really all about and what their real needs are. Are you still going to be doing work for them in SD? If so, you really need to take a second look at what you consider THE cam. If you're totally convinced that the EX1 is THE cam to get then you've got a just a little more $$$ and you need to get the Sony in your hands as soon as possible.
If the HVX or HPX had any issues of control over lens and picture in any way, I wouldn't use or recommend them.
A medium pan of a hotel? Yeah, you're going to be just fine. But are you going to be doing medium pans of hotels all day? Probably not. I'm just being sacrcastic here, but my point is you really need to be sure that it handles just right on some of the other shots I seen in your work, like sitting in the back of the truck going through the redwoods. How does it take to the jiggles of a moving rig. Or how about when you go to the local sawmill or industrial center for a job and the HID lights above are causing all sorts of weird crap to show up??? I mean, thats the kind of stuff I run into out here in our neck of the woods. The overhead light situation was one of the big problems I ran into myself. But it may not be an issue for you or for others.
On the EX series your going to have a process also. If you want straight to timeline editing after moving your clips to your Mac, you may want to look at the new JVC cameras that Phil Bloom has reviewed recently. Those would possibly be good choices for you also.
You can over and undercrank on the 170 and the ex, but be aware it is incremental and not like a "live-dial" like on the Varicam. On the 150 if your looking for the overcranked slo mo effect just shoot 60p and convert cadence to 24p in cinema tools. I have used VFR maybe a dozen times on paid and none paid projects. It just really depends on what you're after, but if you think your going to do kung fu "Matrix" effects like the HDC27 on the fly, it won't happen.
And by the way, all that cranking is done in 720 not 1080 on both Sony and Panasonic.
My stuff I shot at the time was not just whip pans. It was everyday stuff that my HVX and even our little SD9 handled with zero issues. Jellocam, severe skew in telephoto when tracing something at different speeds, and a horrible skanky distrortion when working in industrial/commercial places for clients under lighting conditions I have to work in 2-3 times a month. Thank goodness none of it was for money. I did not keep this footage around to fill space. It sucked for me and I moved on.
Last week we had over $15k for our new camera. It did not come easy. I could have had a nicely setup HPX300 with new mics and a unislot receiver. We just got another HPX/HVX class camera. What more can I say.
But here's my perspective on it, if you had $7k and then you've got another guy over in Eureka with $7k and he buys just an EX-1 and a card. That's it. He's done.
Now you go and get the 150 and the other tools you need to bring up your game and intimately learn them, make the picture match more the taste and artistic style/vision you know thats inside you and really bring up your production level....I guarantee you you will pimp slap the other guy back to the hills, every single time!
Then when he comes back down the hill with his HPX300 or his 170 or his Ex-3 or even his 2nd hand F900 you will STILL have the potential to pimp slap him, and even harder than before! It's all about you and how far you are willing to push your artistic level.
This is where we're at now. Is the 150 a 3700??? Heck no! But neither is an EX1. Do I care? No! And neither should you. Just go make something that really kicks a$$!!! Which brings me to my last thing...
Let me tell you the best way you can make the $5k go a lot further. You can go out and rent an EX-1 for a week, or maybe even a month. While you're at it rent an HMC150 at the same time. Preferably get packages with filters, or even a mattebox with filters.
Put the cameras through their paces in your own turf. Take em up for a ride in a Cessna, run them in the back of your truck. Get to know their menus and on screen assists and features and ergonomics. Do YOUR kind of shooting and see which plays nicest with your eye and your hands.
In the end, you may spend $500+ to see which camera was the best for you and worked best with your style. EX-1 or HPX or HMC whichever one you choose will be THE RIGHT ONE FOR YOU! And that sir, is money well spent... :beer:
HVX or EX1 I leave you with this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG-Wnd4Q41Q
Okay, the caffeine and excedrin finally wore off, and its time for this beaver to head for the dam....
Why the 150...
The four cameras I've worked with in varying degrees were the Sony Ex-1 and the Canon HF10 and a Nikon D90 and a Sony HVR-V1u. They may not all respond equally but to ME they were all equally unacceptable for the work I do. Not to say the pictures on the ex-1 weren't beautiful, and not that beautiful work hasn't been done on any of these but they did not work for ME. The HVR-V1u was with me for three months. I loved this camera as a first HD camera, but for me HDV sucked. I hated what it did to water and I can never go back to tape.
I can suggest the HMC150 for all the great reasons I could suggest a 170. There are a some differences in features but if the 150 were available then, knowing what I know now from my own experience I would have gone the HMC150. But I'm already equipped to handle the 170 and I have the infrastructure and its older brothers around it.
Dude, I have a four core 2007 mac running the latest FCP. My avccam dumped to ProRes in a breeze. It was even faster than my MXF files are wrapped to quicktime files. In FCP you DO NOT edit native AVCCAM. Even if I could I wouldn't, just like I would never edit native HDV. The only thing that didn't get brought over was my timecode, but its not something that I missed.
I worked with some clips that I shot very briefly and the raw footage that came from from both the Panny DVD and the brief clips I shot in 720 were nearly indistinguishable from my HVX200a. And the clips color corrected beautifully even for being 4:2:0! I was a happy camper. Understand, if I didn't have a dozen and half batteries and a handful of P2 cards, I would be running the HMC150. But I have a tapeless workflow that I'm happy with and gets a lot of work done. For me the HMC150 would be just fine too.
I'm glad you like it. Yes there is grading going on, it looks even better at our local theater. And that's on a downconvert SD DVD playing on a monster sized screen. It all comes down to your skillset, your style, your will to make your content great.
Look at some of the incredible stuff that was shot on a DVX100 and then you get to watch some of the crap that comes from an F900 that makes you want to vomit.
Every time, its the people on and off set. I've seen work out there and right on this site from both EX users and HVX users. And the really great stuff....well those people are going to get incredible and sellable results REGARDLESS of what camera.
Case in point, there is this guy Buck Forester on here whos stuff leaves me speechless. I could stare at his flckr pics all day. I don't know Buck and I've never met Buck or spoken with him on this board. But I know that whatever camera Buck Forester uses, his images will still leave me spechless. It just so happens that the EX1 is the tool he's found to match HIS STYLE.
Would an Ex1 or the D90 work for me in MY STLE? No it would certainly not. Based on my personal experience it would not do well in a speeding boat in the Pacific, it would probably not do well in the helicopters we ride in
Do yourself a favor ask your employer what their needs really are. Ask them what their customers are really all about and what their real needs are. Are you still going to be doing work for them in SD? If so, you really need to take a second look at what you consider THE cam. If you're totally convinced that the EX1 is THE cam to get then you've got a just a little more $$$ and you need to get the Sony in your hands as soon as possible.
If the HVX or HPX had any issues of control over lens and picture in any way, I wouldn't use or recommend them.
A medium pan of a hotel? Yeah, you're going to be just fine. But are you going to be doing medium pans of hotels all day? Probably not. I'm just being sacrcastic here, but my point is you really need to be sure that it handles just right on some of the other shots I seen in your work, like sitting in the back of the truck going through the redwoods. How does it take to the jiggles of a moving rig. Or how about when you go to the local sawmill or industrial center for a job and the HID lights above are causing all sorts of weird crap to show up??? I mean, thats the kind of stuff I run into out here in our neck of the woods. The overhead light situation was one of the big problems I ran into myself. But it may not be an issue for you or for others.
On the EX series your going to have a process also. If you want straight to timeline editing after moving your clips to your Mac, you may want to look at the new JVC cameras that Phil Bloom has reviewed recently. Those would possibly be good choices for you also.
You can over and undercrank on the 170 and the ex, but be aware it is incremental and not like a "live-dial" like on the Varicam. On the 150 if your looking for the overcranked slo mo effect just shoot 60p and convert cadence to 24p in cinema tools. I have used VFR maybe a dozen times on paid and none paid projects. It just really depends on what you're after, but if you think your going to do kung fu "Matrix" effects like the HDC27 on the fly, it won't happen.
And by the way, all that cranking is done in 720 not 1080 on both Sony and Panasonic.
My stuff I shot at the time was not just whip pans. It was everyday stuff that my HVX and even our little SD9 handled with zero issues. Jellocam, severe skew in telephoto when tracing something at different speeds, and a horrible skanky distrortion when working in industrial/commercial places for clients under lighting conditions I have to work in 2-3 times a month. Thank goodness none of it was for money. I did not keep this footage around to fill space. It sucked for me and I moved on.
Last week we had over $15k for our new camera. It did not come easy. I could have had a nicely setup HPX300 with new mics and a unislot receiver. We just got another HPX/HVX class camera. What more can I say.
But here's my perspective on it, if you had $7k and then you've got another guy over in Eureka with $7k and he buys just an EX-1 and a card. That's it. He's done.
Now you go and get the 150 and the other tools you need to bring up your game and intimately learn them, make the picture match more the taste and artistic style/vision you know thats inside you and really bring up your production level....I guarantee you you will pimp slap the other guy back to the hills, every single time!
Then when he comes back down the hill with his HPX300 or his 170 or his Ex-3 or even his 2nd hand F900 you will STILL have the potential to pimp slap him, and even harder than before! It's all about you and how far you are willing to push your artistic level.
This is where we're at now. Is the 150 a 3700??? Heck no! But neither is an EX1. Do I care? No! And neither should you. Just go make something that really kicks a$$!!! Which brings me to my last thing...
Let me tell you the best way you can make the $5k go a lot further. You can go out and rent an EX-1 for a week, or maybe even a month. While you're at it rent an HMC150 at the same time. Preferably get packages with filters, or even a mattebox with filters.
Put the cameras through their paces in your own turf. Take em up for a ride in a Cessna, run them in the back of your truck. Get to know their menus and on screen assists and features and ergonomics. Do YOUR kind of shooting and see which plays nicest with your eye and your hands.
In the end, you may spend $500+ to see which camera was the best for you and worked best with your style. EX-1 or HPX or HMC whichever one you choose will be THE RIGHT ONE FOR YOU! And that sir, is money well spent... :beer:
HVX or EX1 I leave you with this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG-Wnd4Q41Q
Okay, the caffeine and excedrin finally wore off, and its time for this beaver to head for the dam....
