HVX200 vs HMC150 - what kind of user needs what?

filmguy123 said:
Well don't get me wrong, I was just trying to show you the options! :) I actually won't be having fun with the HMC150 as I am a HVX200/P2 owner myself. I'd love to upgrade to the HPX170 so I'm jealous!

Also as a side note, I did see that Panny is offering a free utility that transcodes the AVCHD files to DVCPRO, so actually, you could still even work with DVCPRO files in editing if that was an issue.

True, you'd have to transcode, but that's also part of the whole saving tons of money deal. And really, it's not that big of a deal. On a good computer, it doesn't add that much time to the ingest of the footage anyway, and it's still faster than tape.
Click to expand...

My editor was tempted to get the HMC-150 but once she read about all of the transcoding issues on Mac (we use FCS2), she asked to buy my HVX-200 that I needed to sell to buy the HPX. So now everyone is happy, she has my HVX and I will have my new HPX tomorrow.

We often work on insanely inadequate deadlines for DVD material so the thought of coming up with 30 cards of AVCHD and having to essentially re-render all of it to work with it is just a turn-off. HMC-150 looks to be a kick ass camera and I am sure that the edit manufacturers will eventually catch up and it will become as viable of a working format as HDV has been.

It strikes me as kind of funny that we all obsess about resolution, color space, formats, etc. One of my favorite shows is Bizarre Foods on the Travel Channel. My DP friend just shot three episodes of the show and guess what they shoot it on? The Sony Z1. HDV. Crappy outdated last generation camera (I shot with one for a year before the HVX came out). And you know what? I could care less, I still love the show, Andrew and the amazing locations that they go tol It's bare bones and really doesn't look that good but the Travel Channel runs the snot out of it, and it is a big ratings vehicle for them. Content in king and formats be damned.

That said, I have devoted the entire day tomorrow to getting to know the HPX that UPS will be dropping off. It's like we all hae the disease, new-cameritis! ;-)

Dan
 
filmguy123 said:
Well don't get me wrong, I was just trying to show you the options! :) I actually won't be having fun with the HMC150 as I am a HVX200/P2 owner myself. I'd love to upgrade to the HPX170 so I'm jealous!

Also as a side note, I did see that Panny is offering a free utility that transcodes the AVCHD files to DVCPRO, so actually, you could still even work with DVCPRO files in editing if that was an issue.

True, you'd have to transcode, but that's also part of the whole saving tons of money deal. And really, it's not that big of a deal. On a good computer, it doesn't add that much time to the ingest of the footage anyway, and it's still faster than tape.
Click to expand...

I downloaded Shrigg's clips and encoded them with an aging P4 3.2GHz to DVCPro without a hitch. Worked fine, looked great in CS3. I also encoded to HDV with TMPGEnc easily and edited with Vegas and CS3, same results - very easy.

I have a HVX200 that's great, but I'm tempted to go to the HMC150, only because of cheap media. I'd miss frame rates for sure. I might be able to fake that in software, but...
 
Mike, I'm with you. I've already invested in an HVX200 and I have a 16gb p2 card. I'm looking at getting a 64gb P2 because I need more capacity... but part of me is wishing I had the HMC150 instead. The extra features on the HVX I have are great, and I do use them, but the additional cost is just SO much more. And there are some things on the HMC150 better than the older HVX200 original model now. Realistically, I don't need the benefits P2 offers. Yet I already have the investment, and I'm gonna need to drop about $2k on a 64gb P2 card... when I could have an HMC150 w/32gb SDHC card that records in the same mode for 3-4 hours... all for under $4k.
 
now on a more serious note, I leaned towards the HMC for one main reason.........Price, camera's price and the media's price, not resolution....color...contrast (cause I don't think that they'll differ too much from hpx's) . I also think that this camera suits my needs best, I'm more of an event shoter than a narrative one, so I thought that having the possibility to buy 7 16GB card for the price of one P2 card was a winner FOR ME (not maybe for other people). And with the money I save I can buy a better tripod, mic, etc.... (this is for me , not for someone that has already invested in P2 and has tons of gear, I'm sure that for those HPX is the way to go).

More things, as of this moment I don't find any problem in MY workflow cause I'm using Vegas and it accepts the original files, just drag and drop...no more in it. (It's a shame that mac hasn't yet make this possible and I understand that this will be a negative point till this format is fully editable in any OS or editing app).

Many people talked about variable famerates, well HMC hasn't lost all the possiblities to make slow motion..... you have 720 60p, and you can go down there to 1fps (in software..). Not the same but.........

That said, everyone has different needs, I feel that this camera was what I needed, so, even though I could have afforded the HPX (but not all the pricey P2), I went for the HMC for the aforementioned reasons.


That's it hehehe......
 
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filmguy123 said:
Mike, I'm with you. I've already invested in an HVX200 and I have a 16gb p2 card. I'm looking at getting a 64gb P2 because I need more capacity... but part of me is wishing I had the HMC150 instead. The extra features on the HVX I have are great, and I do use them, but the additional cost is just SO much more. And there are some things on the HMC150 better than the older HVX200 original model now. Realistically, I don't need the benefits P2 offers. Yet I already have the investment, and I'm gonna need to drop about $2k on a 64gb P2 card... when I could have an HMC150 w/32gb SDHC card that records in the same mode for 3-4 hours... all for under $4k.
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The frame rate I use a lot, some of which I can do in software as ilauzirika notes, but day in/out stuff, the HMC150 can likely do the load.

I was training some Army folks from the cold weather training center this month where they plan to get both cameras to augment their acquisition of video. They use a Sanyo Xacti right now that works great in extreme cold, but doesn't have the quality we want. Both Panasonics would fit the bill. (I want to pass the Sanyo out to the testers' pockets to let them use it for their purposes and reports.)

Shopping around you can get 16GB Class 6 media for under $40 shipped. So, yeah, I'm thinking.

I'm hoping we can cajole Shirigg to do some tests for us. Perhaps Mr Green, too.
:beer:
 
Hi Darren,

No, Scene tests. If I read the specifications correctly, the camera has the same Scene capabilities as the HVX200 (and saving ability to SD card). It would be interesting to see how well it works.

Also, do you have two SD slots? One for regular SD and one for SDHC?

I'm heading to Alaska to do in December, I think, to continue teaching and training both software and hardware, to include this and the HPX170, depending upon when we get them in.

I think that AVCHD is 4:2:0 in color space, and if I read the PH specification correctly the microblock should be a lot finer since it isn't confined to 16 pixels, which is pretty cool.

I hate losing 4:2:2, though. DVCPro is so pretty.
 
MikeGunter said:
Hi Darren,

No, Scene tests. If I read the specifications correctly, the camera has the same Scene capabilities as the HVX200 (and saving ability to SD card). It would be interesting to see how well it works.

Also, do you have two SD slots? One for regular SD and one for SDHC?

I'm heading to Alaska to do in December, I think, to continue teaching and training both software and hardware, to include this and the HPX170, depending upon when we get them in.

I think that AVCHD is 4:2:0 in color space, and if I read the PH specification correctly the microblock should be a lot finer since it isn't confined to 16 pixels, which is pretty cool.

I hate losing 4:2:2, though. DVCPro is so pretty.
Click to expand...

Just one SD slot, I guess scene files get saved right alongside the clips. Yes AVCHD is 4:2:0 and I believe the AVCHD microblock is 4 pixels. 16 times finer!
 
shrigg said:
Just one SD slot, I guess scene files get saved right alongside the clips. Yes AVCHD is 4:2:0 and I believe the AVCHD microblock is 4 pixels. 16 times finer!
Click to expand...

Okay, I read the manual. It's like the HVX200. You can load the scenes into the camera's memory. I suppose you can have some scenes in some chips to load while you're out and about, load them up, or modify on the run. I doubt it's much of a stretch.

Nice camera. I'm trying to figure out what I'd be giving up besides frame rates, 4:2:2, and 2 pounds.
 
MikeGunter said:
Nice camera. I'm trying to figure out what I'd be giving up besides frame rates, 4:2:2, and 2 pounds.
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Well I think it depends upon your audience.

If your work is not for the big screen for Discovery HD theatre, then I don't think one would see much of a difference once run through the normal editing enhancements.

Especially if you are delivering on DVD.

The specs seem to important, but in reality, most television watchers notice about a quarter of the details us video folks notice anyway.

Now if we compare the HMC-150 to a 2/3" chip camera, I think the change would be quite evident, but next to a camera with the same imaging device just a different codec, once edited and tweaked, I don't think there would be much difference.

This is just my opinion for my work...
 
shrigg said:
Just one SD slot, I guess scene files get saved right alongside the clips.
Click to expand...
Correct, the clips get saved in the AVCHD folder and the scene files get saved in the P2 folder. So you don't want to format your SD card all the time or you'll lose your scene files; instead use the "delete all clips" function.
 
puredrifting said:
My editor was tempted to get the HMC-150 but once she read about all of the transcoding issues on Mac (we use FCS2), she asked to buy my HVX-200 that I needed to sell to buy the HPX. So now everyone is happy, she has my HVX and I will have my new HPX tomorrow.

We often work on insanely inadequate deadlines for DVD material so the thought of coming up with 30 cards of AVCHD and having to essentially re-render all of it to work with it is just a turn-off. HMC-150 looks to be a kick ass camera and I am sure that the edit manufacturers will eventually catch up and it will become as viable of a working format as HDV has been.

It strikes me as kind of funny that we all obsess about resolution, color space, formats, etc. One of my favorite shows is Bizarre Foods on the Travel Channel. My DP friend just shot three episodes of the show and guess what they shoot it on? The Sony Z1. HDV. Crappy outdated last generation camera (I shot with one for a year before the HVX came out). And you know what? I could care less, I still love the show, Andrew and the amazing locations that they go tol It's bare bones and really doesn't look that good but the Travel Channel runs the snot out of it, and it is a big ratings vehicle for them. Content in king and formats be damned.

That said, I have devoted the entire day tomorrow to getting to know the HPX that UPS will be dropping off. It's like we all hae the disease, new-cameritis! ;-)

Dan
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Thanks for that input. It's nice to read some good emotions sometime.
And according to the cameras functions as you discribed, we often forget about the narrative and so much else. Unfortunately that kind of discussion isn't nearly as updated as the discussion about the technology.

Take care, and love what you do!
 
MikeGunter said:
I hate losing 4:2:2, though. DVCPro is so pretty.
Click to expand...
There is an HDMI that outputs uncompressed 4:2:2. As far as i understand it you can get 4:2:2 on a Firestore or your laptop if you record directly to it.
[Edit: Arg. I stand corrected. No Firestore. No laptop. You can record to a card, read Barry's post further down. But you CAN get 4:2:2!]
 
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johnnyha said:
As far as i understand it you can get 4:2:2 on a Firestore or your laptop if you record directly to it.
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No FireStore records 4:2:2 (except the DVCPRO-HD FS-100, of course).

FireStores are not an option for the HMC150 or any AVC-HD camera, because AVC-HD doesn't stream the footage.

You could use a different type of recording system, something that supports HDMI and 4:2:2 directly, like a Black Magic Intensity Pro card, but you're not gonna be fitting that in a laptop.
 
johnnyha said:
There is an HDMI that outputs uncompressed 4:2:2. As far as i understand it you can get 4:2:2 on a Firestore or your laptop if you record directly to it.
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Hi,

That's true, and for the greenscreen work that I do a lot of, that might be the solution going to a Blackmagic card, something I don't have and hadn't really thought of doing. I do have a laptop with HDMI - I don't know if it is bidirectional, perhaps all HDMI is; it might be part of the specification for all I know.

I do like DVCPro a lot. That's one beautiful CODEC.

In a perfect world I'd keep the HVX200, but that's more money than I need tied up in cameras.
 
Barry_Green said:
No FireStore records 4:2:2 (except the DVCPRO-HD FS-100, of course).

FireStores are not an option for the HMC150 or any AVC-HD camera, because AVC-HD doesn't stream the footage.

You could use a different type of recording system, something that supports HDMI and 4:2:2 directly, like a Black Magic Intensity Pro card, but you're not gonna be fitting that in a laptop.
Click to expand...
Thanks Barry!
 
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