HVX200, or DVX100B, for SD only?

C

CineAlta

Well-known member
Hi, I am interested in getting an SD camera to use for independent filmmaking for the next 2-3 yrs (until I can afford to upgrade to HD).

I was all set to get a DVX100B, but then thought I could "future-proof" my camera-purchase by getting an HVX200, but only use it for SD for the next 2-3 yrs. If I stretch my finances all the way to get an HVX200, there's no way I will be able to afford upgrading my computer for HD editing, P2 cards, Firestore or Cineporter. I will only be able to afford DV tapes.

For SD use only, will there be a significant difference between both cameras (except for the 16:9 native chips in HVX200)? Which way would you lean if you were in my shoes?

Thanks for thd advice!
 
HVX all the way baby!!!! For 2K more future proof yourself.
Use the HVX for DV shooting and learn the HD along the way.
This is what I am doing. I have a DVX and love it. But I am looking forward to the bigger feature set and P2 workflow of the HVX.
 
Yep, I'm getting also HVX although I have been thinking of DVX too...but if you buy the anamorphic lens to the DVX then there's not so much to the prize of HVX...(hopefully...here in Europe...):thumbup:
 
petelms said:
Yep, I'm getting also HVX although I have been thinking of DVX too...but if you buy the anamorphic lens to the DVX then there's not so much to the prize of HVX...(hopefully...here in Europe...):thumbup:
Click to expand...

The anamorphic lens is still quite pricey. I almost bought one until I heard about the HVX.
 
How well does the anamorphic lens work on the DVX?

A lot of combinations on other cameras I've used have focal length / focus issues.
Also vignetting and barrel distortion.
 
Hello

- first post alert! -

I am in the same boat as Cinealta. I am looking for a good solution to film a few shorts, music videoclips, a TV pilot (!).

None of my projects are or will be HD!

I am in Europe so the HVX will be available from April on I suppose, the price will be double that of the DVX (6000 euros estimate versus 3000 euros)

Now budget wise I can spend 6000 euros without having to break the bank and with a rational view on a return of the investment! ;-) )

So next three years: allmost no HD (noP2). I should be very happy with the DVX I suppose and could use the extra money to get a decent tripod, maybe a small stabilizer system, a firestore and some extra light or I could buy the HVX with the extra tripod, etc... Seems like the most rational choice for now would be the DVX over the HVX. I will be shooting 16/9 but then I am not really a pixel fetishist ;-)

Also, confused as I am right now, I suppose that shooting DVCpro50 is also in mxf format and would be difficult to edit in Avid edition (what I am using and loving today), There is now way I woul buy new (apple) pc's and final cut pro.

So in my situation, I assume the DVX would be able to tackle the job, give me spare budget room and would be a perfect learning tool as I am moving up from a Sony trv900.

I will be ready for HD when 60% of the viewers are and when PC's will not hickup when editing it, sorry but I am just realistic here :-)

Oh well! Any thoughts on my "situation" would be very much appreciated. I really lurked two months on this forum before posting and it has served as invaluable information resource thanks for all your community love ;-)

Hendrik
 
The HVX is obviously the better camera: native 16:9, sharper SD, better color sampling, and no tape. The DVX is still an excellent camera, so it all depends on how much value you put on those features... for me it's a lot!
 
studiomuscle said:
- first post alert! -

Also, confused as I am right now, I suppose that shooting DVCpro50 is also in mxf format and would be difficult to edit in Avid edition (what I am using and loving today), There is now way I woul buy new (apple) pc's and final cut pro.

I will be ready for HD when 60% of the viewers are and when PC's will not hickup when editing it, sorry but I am just realistic here :-)


Hendrik
Click to expand...

Welcome to the jungle!!

I think buying any SD camera now would be a total right off.
It might serve your purpose for this year......
If you have any thought that you might do other shooting for other producers than the HVX would be the one to go with.
I finally plan to get a small camera crane to compliment the HVX.
I have many producers and edit houses wondering about the workflow of the HVX. My plan is to jump in and offer total turn-key
producer services. I will be getting an Apple Laptop with FCP studio and will work towards the goal of offering finished footage on a hard-drive that the producer or editor could work with immediately.
Why is there so much interest in this workflow????
No tapedecks needed (Until final edit complete - sometimes)
To eliminate the deck rental, even a 1200 DVCPRO HD deck is
worth it to many I have spoken with. Many producers I have talked with like the idea of dumping the footage as you go and have a laptop in the field to do quick edits and rough check chromakey shoots. You can do this with HD now if you have a much larger budget and crew.
 
Okay - I'll be the lone dissenter on this thread I guess -

If you see no reason to shoot HD for the next 2-3 years then I would definitely NOT buy an HVX, unless you plan on shooting DVCPro50.

If your plan is to shoot only on MiniDV tape for the next few years, then by all means buy a DVX100B and save yourself a few thousand dollars which could be better spent on lighting gear, audio gear, or any other number of things.

There is really no way to "future proof" a camera purchase (yet).
You could 'future proof' your PROJECTS by shooting on HD but downconverting them to SD... at least you'd always have the original HD footage to go back to.

But if you're saying you're going to shoot SD, edit SD, and master onto SD....
then I see no reason to buy an HVX unless you want to shoot DVCPro50.
(which you say you can't afford)

Look at how much things have moved forward in the last 2 to 3 years.
I wouldn't want to take a gamble on buying an HVX today in hopes of using it to shoot HD in 2 to 3 years. By that point we'll have an HVX200A, and who knows how many other new HD camera choices. Three years ago you could have posted the same thread and asked "Should I get the DVX, or an HDV camera to only shoot DV"
Looking back, which one would you have rather gotten?
I would have told you back then to buy the DVX.

The DVX100B is a great SD camera.
The HVX200 is really geared for P2 shooting. It just happens to have a MiniDV tape drive on it. After shooting with it a few times, I wouldn't consider it if I were only going to shoot DV. There isn't a good reason to spend that much more money if you're only going to use half of the camera.

If you're certain you are going to stick with SD and MiniDV tape for the next two years, then save your money and buy what you need. I seriously doubt you'll be dissapointed.
 
Luis,

thanks for your lone voice :) . Adding up to the discussion I'd say that my main target is SD TV prototype pilots and movies for the web and VJ'ing, where most material is being downrezzed anyway. I admit that choosing lightning gear and accesoires is less sexy than a hvx200 but what's a hvx200 going to prove with a lack of those imho.

I am just looking for the most rational solution for the next three years and as you say by then the HD camera options and workflows will be less bleeding edge than it is today.

Personally I am a very early adaptor concerning new PC technology as I work in this business. I should limit my urge to buy bleeding edge when it comes to cameras because it's really not what I need and don't take the sexyness as a main buying arguement ;)
 
Luis Caffesse said:
Okay - I'll be the lone dissenter on this thread I guess -

If you see no reason to shoot HD for the next 2-3 years then I would definitely NOT buy an HVX, unless you plan on shooting DVCPro50.

If your plan is to shoot only on MiniDV tape for the next few years, then by all means buy a DVX100B and save yourself a few thousand dollars which could be better spent on lighting gear, audio gear, or any other number of things.

There is really no way to "future proof" a camera purchase (yet).
You could 'future proof' your PROJECTS by shooting on HD but downconverting them to SD... at least you'd always have the original HD footage to go back to.

But if you're saying you're going to shoot SD, edit SD, and master onto SD....
then I see no reason to buy an HVX unless you want to shoot DVCPro50.
(which you say you can't afford)

Look at how much things have moved forward in the last 2 to 3 years.
I wouldn't want to take a gamble on buying an HVX today in hopes of using it to shoot HD in 2 to 3 years. By that point we'll have an HVX200A, and who knows how many other new HD camera choices. Three years ago you could have posted the same thread and asked "Should I get the DVX, or an HDV camera to only shoot DV"
Looking back, which one would you have rather gotten?
I would have told you back then to buy the DVX.

The DVX100B is a great SD camera.
The HVX200 is really geared for P2 shooting. It just happens to have a MiniDV tape drive on it. After shooting with it a few times, I wouldn't consider it if I were only going to shoot DV. There isn't a good reason to spend that much more money if you're only going to use half of the camera.

If you're certain you are going to stick with SD and MiniDV tape for the next two years, then save your money and buy what you need. I seriously doubt you'll be dissapointed.
Click to expand...

Luis is right. To Future proof something, you have to know what the future has in store -- And none of us do.

The DVX100B should be enough, Unless (as stated) you want to shoot DVCpro50 straight to tape for better quality images for your SD material.

Don't want to shoot gorgeous DVCpro50? Then spend the money on something else.

But, I'm just repeating what Luis said.
 
Kholi said:
The DVX100B should be enough, Unless (as stated) you want to shoot DVCpro50 straight to tape for better quality images for your SD material.
Click to expand...

To be clear - you can't shoot DVCPro50 to tape on the HVX200 - the only thing you can shoot to tape is DV.

To shoot DVCPro50 you would have to record onto P2 cards, a hard drive of some kind (Firestore or Cineporter), or go straight into a computer via FireWire.


Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.
My point was that the only major way the HVX will be better than the DVX in SD is if you were going to shoot DVCPro50. But to do so would require P2 cards, one of the hard drives mentioned above, or being tethered to computer.
 
It would seem that CineAlta and studiomuscle have different needs here. CineAlta would prob get more out of a HVX now, since he wants to learn the HD workflow sooner rather rather than later, while studiomuscle would get what he needs from the DVX now.

Great to have a choice! (or to have a choice soon, as soon as the log jam loosens up on the HVX...)
 
Luis Caffesse said:
To be clear - you can't shoot DVCPro50 to tape on the HVX200 - the only thing you can shoot to tape is DV.

To shoot DVCPro50 you would have to record onto P2 cards, a hard drive of some kind (Firestore or Cineporter), or go straight into a computer via FireWire.


Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.
My point was that the only major way the HVX will be better than the DVX in SD is if you were going to shoot DVCPro50. But to do so would require P2 cards, one of the hard drives mentioned above, or being tethered to computer.
Click to expand...

See, I didn't even know that. I thought you could record DVCpro50 to tape.

Tsk. Shame on me.
 
Thanks for all the input, thus far!

I know that the finished SD, from down-converted HVX200 HD, will look better than that originated in DVX100B SD. But what I'm really wondering is, how they'll compare when both are originated in DV (and not down-converted from HD). Will the HVX200 footage still be superior (?better lens, ?cleaner electronics etc).

Thanks again for any advice!
 
i owned a pd150 2 years ago and was interested in the dvx100. then people began to talk about hvx200. i ve been waiting for this cam since early 2005. i bought a sony hdv 5 month ago to see how hd looks, still waiting for hvx200. but here, in europe, we have to wait and pay much more than US (7000€/8500$ for the cam only).HVX footages look nice but not very different from hdv (nicer colors). so, one month ago i bought a dvx100b and that s a crazy cam. why do you think soderbergh, buscemi, wim wenders, ....., choose this one although hd cams were available? and read the thread from disjecta about photozoom. this is a crazy 120$ software. you don t need a complex-to-focus and expensive anamorphic adapter. quality is stunning.
and shooting hd is cool if you have good lighting, good make up, ....... but for my opinon image looks a little bit snobish, too sharp, too clean. i think you can shoot incredible things with the hvx200 if you are talented but it can also easily transform your footage into garbage.
 
CineAlta said:
I know that the finished SD, from down-converted HVX200 HD, will look better than that originated in DVX100B SD.
Click to expand...

I don't think you should make that assumption at all.
If you're talking about shooting HD on the HVX and then downconverting it to DV - it will no look any better than the DVX will, in my opinion. In fact I think there is a good chance it will look worse (if we're talking about just straight downconverting of footage, not downconverting a finished mastered color corrected video).

If you're talking about shooting HD on the HVX and downconverting to some other SD codec, then perhaps it will look better than footage originated from the DVX - but that has much less to do with originating on HD than it does with mastering onto a less compressed/higher bitrate codec than DV.

But what I'm really wondering is, how they'll compare when both are originated in DV (and not down-converted from HD). Will the HVX200 footage still be superior (?better lens, ?cleaner electronics etc).
Click to expand...

If there is a difference, in my opinion it will not be a 2-3 thousand dollar difference.
But that's my opinion.

My advice would be to get your hands on both cameras if you can, and shoot some side by side DV with them. I think you'll find that the HVX is not going to outshine the DVX as much as some may think it will.
 
"Also, confused as I am right now, I suppose that shooting DVCpro50 is also in mxf format and would be difficult to edit in Avid edition (what I am using and loving today), There is now way I woul buy new (apple) pc's and final cut pro. "
Hendrik[/QUOTE]

Why not final cut pro? Are both Avid and FCPS industry standard? And if I wanted to turn a hobby into a job sometime, say as an editor or an assistant ( I do have some connections in the Canadian industry, and possibly a few in L.A.) then what system is best to learn? Can Avid and Final Cut Pro Studio do the same things for around the same price, just on different operating systems?

R.N.
 
Thanks all, for your kind advice!

I have decided to get a DVX100B. As much as I'd like to join your exclusive HVX200 club, I don't think I'm in your same stratosphere. I'm just a poor indie filmmaker, and it sounds like most of you are rich network or studio guys.

In my humble experience, the most important quality-limiting aspect in my productions, is the level of my talent. I could rent a Panavision with Prime lenses, and if my talent is not convincing, I think it would look worse than if I had talented actors dramatizing a compelling story, but shot with an old Super 8 from the 60's. Just IMO (don't mean to be presumptuous or anything).

By going with the DVX, I'll still have a couple grand left over to get a good tripod, some lights, a good mic, matte box & some filters.

Hopefully, I can join ya'll in 3 yrs time. By then, I can afford upgrading my Mac for HD editing, afford P2's, and there'll be a viable distribution medium for my films (BluRay or HD DVD). Who knows, by then I might be buying an HVX200B :-)

Good luck with your HVX HD projects! I'll still be over on the DVX forums.
 
WOO HOO!
I win!!
(just kidding)

:thumbsup:
Good choice.
Can't wait to see what you do with it.

But for the record, I don't think the vast majority of people here are rich studio guys.
(or if they are, don't say anything - because somehow I slipped in here)

But I do think a lot of people on here are making a living, or at least making some money, off the gear the buy. Either way - don't worry about any such "HVX Club" - getting the right camera for you and what you need is all that matters.
Anything past that is just hype.

Congratulations on your new purchase.
 
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