HVX200 for a Six Flags tv spot

RomanJaquez

RomanJaquez

Well-known member
Hello all,

I wanted to hear your thoughts about this situation I have going on.

I am schedule to shoot some stock footage for Six Flags and they want HD (they will use this for future spots). I am shooting fast moving images like roller coaster rides, spinning games, people playing and walking, and all thats stuff you enjoy at an action park (using a crane, sometimes using fast tilting and panning) . They want HD, instead of Beta, I expect to shoot in a sunny day so that I don't have to worry about low light problems and of course thats what they want.

So, here is the million dollar question, being an owner of the DVX100A, now I want to upgrade to the HVX200 and have this gig pay for the camera. In other words use the HVX200 instead of renting an F900. I mean, I don't intend to compare these two cameras at all, but what I want to know is, Is the HVX200 capable of pulling off this job?

Your thoughts, any opinion is super valuable to me, please if you have a thought share it.

Best,

Roman
 
RomanJaquez said:
Hello all,

I wanted to hear your thoughts about this situation I have going on.

I am schedule to shoot some stock footage for Six Flags and they want HD (they will use this for future spots). I am shooting fast moving images like roller coaster rides, spinning games, people playing and walking, and all thats stuff you enjoy at an action park (using a crane, sometimes using fast tilting and panning) . They want HD, instead of Beta, I expect to shoot in a sunny day so that I don't have to worry about low light problems and of course thats what they want.

So, here is the million dollar question, being an owner of the DVX100A, now I want to upgrade to the HVX200 and have this gig pay for the camera. In other words use the HVX200 instead of renting an F900. I mean, I don't intend to compare these two cameras at all, but what I want to know is, Is the HVX200 capable of pulling off this job?

Your thoughts, any opinion is super valuable to me, please if you have a thought share it.

Best,

Roman
Click to expand...

It depends on what they're used to. Are they used to seeing footage from the F900 on a nice looking HD display? If they are, then they're probably not going to like the footage you give them from the HVX. Also, if the client is there, they may be disappointed when you show up with a camera that looks like something you can buy at Circuit City.

Bottom line, give the client what they're used to. Better to bite the bullet and rent an F900 than give the appearance of delivering less than they expect.

Note: I say all this having just acquired the HVX at the company I work for. It's a great little versitile camera, capable of some great looking footage, but it's just not in the same league as the F900, nor should it be at 1/11th the price.
:thumbsup:
 
KC,

Thank you for your reply. To answer your question, I believe this is their first attempt to get HD. They are used to DigiBeta. The F900 is my choice, but I what I am curious about is, is the DVCPRO HD capable of broadcast quality video? Also, can you please describe what type of impression you think HVX200 can bring to a client? you maid the Circuit City comment and got my attention.

For those of you like Barry, who seems to know a lot about the camera, given the conditions of the original post, can I trust the HVX200 to deliver a satisfactory product for day light and fast moving images? I remember reading somewhere in here, about someone who did a spot for an online flower shop with this camera... he seems to have been happy with the result.

Roman
 
The camera will provide stunning HD images, but the overall sharpness and detail will be about 15% more with a Varicam in 720 and 35% more with a Cinealta in 1080. These are fair trade offs for the quality and price of the HVX. If your clients have no experience with HD they will probably be impressed.

If you get the camera with a proper mattebox, rods, follow focus and an onboard monitor you will not have that "Circut City" problem.

I already shot a national commercial for Proflowers.com on the HVX and the clients loved it.
 
The HVX can produce stellar images, but I mean, obviously it's not a $160,000 F900 (cam+lens). I would go along with what Evin said -- the difference in sharpness is going to be around the numbers he said. And there'll be more noise. And the F900 could deliver shallower DOF.

But you're talking about $6,000 vs. $160,000. There is not a $154,000 difference between them as far as image goes! If there's one thing we definitively learned at our comparison, it's that all the inexpensive HD cameras come way closer to the image of their big brothers than the pricetags would indicate.

I would feel totally confident in shooting stuff that you're describing on an HVX. But I wouldn't take F900 money to do it. I'd give the client a choice and give them a price break for HVX coverage. If they want to pay more, they can get more.

I did a series of regional commercials for one of the technical training colleges, and their budget was low, and the agency was convinced (convinced!) that they needed to shoot on film. I suggested the DVX, they said "I dunno, it's got to look like film." Which is fine, I've got four film cameras sitting here. But the budget was low. I said -- "here, watch my commercial reel -- there's 35mm and 16mm and DVX footage on here. See if you can pick out which ones were the DVX, and which were film, and then we can talk about the price difference." Long story short, they couldn't see the difference at all. For the type of spots they wanted to do film was overkill; we went with the DVX and I saved 'em a bunch of money. They were happy, and now we're doing a whole new round of 14 spots for them.

That's how I'd approach these guys. I'd say that the F900 is the standard, but it's also pricey and that you could get them some amazing high-def images if you used the HVX. And then show them some footage if possible. Download the desert footage and the basketball footage and burn it to a WMV9 HD DVD, take it to their office and say "how's this -- is this what you're looking for?" If it is, then you know the HVX is "enough." If it's not, if they say "well... we *really* need the ultimate" then get the F900.

But don't charge 'em F900 prices for HVX footage; there should be some sort of break there.
 
Barry, sage advice as always. I'd also say that as Evin said previously on a post about his national shoot.. that you own the camera and it doesn't go into the rental of the unit. I think that being able to pay off an investment.. and then have it continue to make you money.. over throwing that money into a rental.. really speaks volumes. I certainly don't think I'll be running through the hoops renting gear as much. I also think that the insurance needed to rent a varicam is often the biggest problem for small companies. I know I was horrified to find out how much it would cost for just a week of insurance coverage.

I also think that for your shoot... you'd be much more able to get stunny shots from on the rides.. from super challenging angles.. and the like. A friend of mine recently did a varicam shoot for wet-n-wild down here in Orlando. The client was super happy with everything.. except that he couldn't.. or wouldn't be willing to go down the sides with the HD camera. Now, with the HVX he can.. and he can make it out alive. With a varicam.. something would get broken.. eiether the cam or the operator. For this reason he bought 2 HVXs and they are his B-cams.. and his action cams. For the cost of a varicam.. might as well be a friggin' crash cam too!

I can't wait to get an underwater housing for the HVX. Given it's sensitivitiy.. should look amaing for water stuff.
 
Barry, sage advice as always. I'd also say that as Evin said previously on a post about his national shoot.. that you own the camera and it doesn't go into the rental of the unit. I think that being able to pay off an investment.. and then have it continue to make you money.. over throwing that money into a rental.. really speaks volumes. I certainly don't think I'll be running through the hoops renting gear as much. I also think that the insurance needed to rent a varicam is often the biggest problem for small companies. I know I was horrified to find out how much it would cost for just a week of insurance coverage.

I also think that for your shoot... you'd be much more able to get stunny shots from on the rides.. from super challenging angles.. and the like. A friend of mine recently did a varicam shoot for wet-n-wild down here in Orlando. The client was super happy with everything.. except that he couldn't.. or wouldn't be willing to go down the sides with the HD camera. Now, with the HVX he can.. and he can make it out alive. With a varicam.. something would get broken.. eiether the cam or the operator. For this reason he bought 2 HVXs and they are his B-cams.. and his action cams. For the cost of a varicam.. might as well be a friggin' crash cam too!

I can't wait to get an underwater housing for the HVX. Given it's sensitivitiy.. should look amaing for water stuff.
 
Barry is right (!!). You should definitely offer the choice to your client, explaining it as clearly and simply as you can. I mean, after all, if one gig will pay for your HVX, then wouldn't it be nice to be asked back and have another gig maybe next year, or week? Word gets around.
 
Thank you all so much for your posts.

So here is the deal, they are not used to HD, but DigiBeta; also, with the budget they have, if I rent the F900, there won't be a single penny left left for me after paying the crew.

I asked the, if DVCPROHD was Ok, and this was the response from the marketing department: "I'm not sure what "DCVPRO" is referencing, but HD should be the acronym for high-definition. If that's what this references then you're in good shape."

Pretty much, I'd rather give them good quality work, over getting paid. But I really want the HVX and if DVCPRO HD can impress them over the DigiBeta, then I'd go with it. I'd def give them a fair service for their budget.

Shallow DOF is very important, I already know my way really well in the DVX, but is someone manufacturing stuff like the Mini35 some type of device to help with DOF?

Cheers to all,

Roman
 
Roman,

In your case I'd offer to perform a quick "discovery" test for the client. I realize this might be an issue since you might not have the camera in-hand yet. Perhaps find a DVXUser in your market who already has one?

Just let them know that this camera records the same formats as the larger camera - which you also have available to you (F900) - but you'd like a chance to show them the intrinsic value of using the smaller unit instead. Sell them on the 720p with film-style variable frame rates (read: slowmo), and your willingness to come in and conduct the tests for the price of camera rental only (or something along those lines).

Make it easy - just let you in the park with the tripod and camera - no special arrangements necessary. Deliver a quick comps reel within days and I'm sure they'll sign-off on the larger HVX-based production.

Really, though - don't make them think too much!!!

e
 
Doesnt any one here rent?

Yes you could buy a F900 for over a $100,000 but you could also very easily rent one for the job at around $1100-$1600 or less per day/weekend. Thats what budgets are for. Unless you need to shoot for over a week, it just makes more sense from a budget point of view to rent, and get amazing quality, and get more future work from your client.
 
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