HVX200 footage shown at Resfest

Spiraledit

Spiraledit

Member
I just recently got back from a HVX presentation at Resfest here in NYC. They had the camera out on display, along with 1080i footage shot with the camera playing on a monitor.

Then there was a presentation in the theater given by Jan Crittenden, where all aspects of the camera were talked about. Then they projected HVX footage ON THE BIG SCREEN. The footage was simple pans and zooms of a simple set filled with various objects such as a color chart, fruit, fabric with fine detail, etc... There was also some weird spinning object to show off the motion quality. I have to say, it looked REALLY nice projeced on such a large screen (I believe she said it was a DLP projector being used)

I also had the chance to pick up the camera and must say that it was a bit lighter (around 7lbs or so) than the bulldog-like look that the camera has.

It was so cool to be able to look at the camera display and see thumbnails of each shot the camera made. You can then scroll thru the selections and pick any shot for immediate playback, deletion or whatever.

I asked about the new Firestore device and what benefits P2 would have vs using that kind of capture solution. Apparently the main advantages to P2 would be all of the metadata would be there, whereas the firstore would obviously be capturing the footage only. Also, with the P2, if you shot at a variable frame rate, once on your NLE, there is no need for frame rate conversion, whereas there would be with capturing to the firestore. But it does seem very good to know that until P2 cards get a little cheaper, there is a relatively cheap way to shoot and store large amounts of DVCPRO HD footage.

It certainly got me excited about having one!

Bryan
 
nice! im excited about this cam. i love the idea that you can imeditaly playback clips with a few clicks, no rewinding tape.
 
As far as timecode goes, I would guess that you could specify how you wanted to track time code, but one thing is for sure, there would never be any more timecode breaks! YAY!
 
Spiraledit said:
As far as timecode goes, I would guess that you could specify how you wanted to track time code, but one thing is for sure, there would never be any more timecode breaks! YAY!
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Unless you get a bad P2 card.

-Nate
 
I, too was at the ResFest demo in NYC today. I, too liked what I saw.

Some of the things I noted (sorry for some of which you may already know):


I found the camera to be surprisingly light. Kinda chunky wide, but not a problem in any way. Ergonomics were good in every way. I liked the color just fine. Very professional color and finish.

The camera at the demo was only showing 1080 60i. Nothing else was ready to show yet. I saw both live images with the camera and footage shot within the past week. It was displayed on a Panasonic professional LCD, which detracted from the quality I would liked to have seen. The footage displayed in the lecture hall was displayed from a DVCPro HD deck through a DLP projector. Still looked very nice.

Panasonic has decided on the pixel count for the camera, but Jan was not at liberty to share that information with us yet. She really likes the 720P images from the camera, and says that it will indeed use pixel shifting to achieve 1080i (extrapalate from that what you will)..

There's no real advice on transfer times from P2 to computer because it depends on the speed of what you are transferring to. The P2 cards are rated at 640 MBS transfer rate for the 2 GB card. Jan said several times "faster than real time."

P2 seems to be the right product for harsh environments--heat, cold and humidity do not affect it the way these affect tape.

10 - 12 variable frame rates (12, 24, 48, 60 for sure) are to be included. Jan, of course, is pushing for 12.

The "pre-record" function of this camera is 3 seconds for HD images. More for SD. Of course, pre-record works with P2 and not with firewire hookups. You can get pre-record functionality via firewire from Firestore and DV Rack.

The glass is a 32.5 - 422.5 MM lens, equivalent to a 35MM lens.

Color Bars has it's own button instead of being buried in the user settings.

Transfer of data from P2 to computer will be more efficient than transfer via firewire. If you are transferring 720P, for instance, it will be a fraction of the "1 GB per minute" that it will be if you transfer 720P via firewire.

The camera will have 7 stops of latitude, comparable if not better than the DVX100A. Jan says "f8 at 2000 lux" which would be better than the 100A, right?

The same batteries and charger that the DVX100, 100A and 100B use.

No image flip for 35MM adapters for this version. The request came in too late. She likes the idea and says it will make a great option "on the HVX 300." :-)

There were probably 50-75 people there, in my estimation.

That's all I have for now. Any questions?

Regards,

Cre8tive
 
cre8tive said:
The camera will have 7 stops of latitude, comparable if not better than the DVX100A. Jan says "f8 at 2000 lux" which would be better than the 100A, right?
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Wow -- 7 stops? And f8 at 2000 lux? That's incredible. 7 stops is amazing. The HD100 is advertising a contrast ratio of 300%, which could imply 4 stops. 7 stops is huge.

F8 at 2000 lux is the same rating JVC gives for the HD100. It's about 1 stop faster than the Sony Z1, and about 1 stop slower than the DVX. Overall, 7 stops of latitude, f8 sensitivity, and HD resolution -- that's a combination that's better than I was hoping for! I didn't expect them to be able to deliver those kinds of specs using high-def pixel CCDs... obviously I look forward to putting the footage under a microscope and seeing how close those claims are to reality, but right off the bat it sounds encouraging.
 
Seven stops is great news, but Panasonic claims the Varicam has 11 stops, and it doesn't seem to be much better than a dSLR so I'm betting it will be just slightly better than the dvx. Which, to be honest, is just fine by me. In fact, it would be great.

Barry, let's be fair about sensetivity, though. The JVC may have a stop better sensetivity, but it's very noisy. If you turn up the Sony's gain so it's a stop more sensetive, it will probably look like the JVC. I'm betting the hvx will be noisy, too (the dvx is a noise monster, after all). So if you think of sensetivity in terms of signal/noise ratio, I bet they're all pretty close. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the Sony is the overall winner, and I applaud Sony for being willing to sacrifice low-light marketing for a cleaner image (or maybe the large GOP HDV codec just needs the cleaner image.)

This is promising, though. I may skip this generation because I've got no money but it looks to be a good one. For first generation HD products, both Panasonic and Canon seem to have some amazingly mature technologies. I guess it pays to spend more time in R+D.
 
Did some tests with the Z1 today. Highlights looked like trouble, and the overall image had a very strong "video" feel to it. Looked like it would take major diffusion on the lens to lose the crispy crawlers. Is this what one would refer to as "fake" HD, crank up the detail to compensate for 1/3" chips?
Thought Sony would have had a softer look. Maybe the detail was set too high. If Panasonic can maintain the DVX100 24p look and keep highlights in line, coupled with less compression, I think the HVX200 is going to rule this segment of the market.
Is the HVX going to have an instant zoom in center focus selection like the Z1? Sony seems to have an edge on focus and peaking adjustments in their cameras, which is a pretty big issue when it comes to shooting HD.
 
cre8tive said:
That's all I have for now. Any questions?

Regards,

Cre8tive
Click to expand...

Nice report - thanks for posting. Could you infer anything about highlight handling and gamma settings or is that part of the DSP not function yet?

I agree, it does sound like 720 by something for CCDs. Personally, if the camera is kick-ass at 720p, I would be pretty happy since that's where you get the variable frame rates.

I would like to see less noise in shadows than the DVX but 7 stops of latitude - that would be great if holds up.
 
"F8 at 2000 lux is the same rating JVC gives for the HD100. It's about 1 stop faster than the Sony Z1, and about 1 stop slower than the DVX. "

No offense but this is one of the most misleading and useless measurements numbers a manufacture can use. At at what sensitivity? And more important does the light fall linearly on the target as the lens is opened? As someone pointed out they tried to say the Varicam was eleven stops. I own one and it is not. Well it is but you couldn't use half of what they claim without having a snowstorm.
 
actually Jan says 7-8 stops in her post in another thread here after some preliminary testing.

Jan_Crittenden said:
We did some preliminary tests yesterday in the lab with the camera and it is looking like about 7-8 stops of latitude, and the colors tracked all the way into the shadows. Nice!
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so hopefully it holds that through the final units and its 7 stops on the low end. ..fingers crossed

How many stops is a DVX?
 
Policar said:
Barry, let's be fair about sensetivity, though. The JVC may have a stop better sensetivity, but it's very noisy.
Click to expand...
In gain, yes -- the gain is quite noisy. But I don't recall if it's noisy in 0db.
If you turn up the Sony's gain so it's a stop more sensetive, it will probably look like the JVC.
Click to expand...
That could be. Then again, the Sony uses spatial offset, vs. native res for the HD100 -- and one of the benefits of spatial offset is lower noise and a better signal-to-noise ratio.
I'm betting the hvx will be noisy, too
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Ah, but -- since the hvx is employing spatial offset as well, the potential exists that it will be a low-noise camera like the Sony. If you want to look for noise, the native-pixel res of the JVC and the Canon is more likely to deliver a noisier image. That's all speculation until we see it though.

I may skip this generation because I've got no money but it looks to be a good one.
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Which is why I keep saying -- if you need a camera now, get it now. If you can afford to wait, why not wait? At least until the major players all play their hands. I think back to Shannon Rawls' February 1, 2006 proclamation where he was saying the Sony Z1 was going to be the filmmaker's choice, and I just can't help but think "um, no..." At the time it may have seemed like it, but now that we have at least three other options, and who knows how many more coming, I can't see why anyone would choose a 1080i camera (presuming "24F" looks better than de-interlaced 1080i)...
 
Walter_Graff said:
"F8 at 2000 lux is the same rating JVC gives for the HD100. It's about 1 stop faster than the Sony Z1, and about 1 stop slower than the DVX. "

No offense but this is one of the most misleading and useless measurements numbers a manufacture can use. At at what sensitivity? And more important does the light fall linearly on the target as the lens is opened? As someone pointed out they tried to say the Varicam was eleven stops. I own one and it is not. Well it is but you couldn't use half of what they claim without having a snowstorm.
Click to expand...

I agree, it is a stat that video camera manufacturers love though because it "proves" that their cameras can handle high contrast lighting situation better than film. :grin:
 
I would love clarification on "retaining highlight detail" myself. It seems that simply crushing your highlights from 109IRE down to 90-95IRE using a broadcast legalizer filter provides a perceived "increase in highlight detail" by one or more f/stops, in my observation.

Barry, haven't tested it, but do any of the modes on the camera crush the highlights like this? I thought maybe Cine_D might, but have yet to actually do anything with it. Any insight? Thanks.
 
Jan showed some footage she shot from her hotel window of the city streets of Amsterdam. She shot it both at day and night. I was looking for noise in the night shots, but could see none visible. Remember it was playing back on the Panny LCDs, however.

Cre8tive
 
Thisiswells,

The cinelike D mode on the DVX100A artificially raises the upper blacks with something like a gain that works only on the blacks, but the noise that comes with this processing is very annoying.
But the knee compression for the highlights ( with Cinelike D) works perfectly though. Very natural highlights compression with good details.

Let's hope they can do the same without the noise.
 
cre8tive said:
Jan showed some footage she shot from her hotel window of the city streets of Amsterdam. She shot it both at day and night. I was looking for noise in the night shots, but could see none visible. Remember it was playing back on the Panny LCDs, however.

Cre8tive
Click to expand...


I find it odd that Panasonic would show it on an lcd screen given that they are the leader in the plasma business and I may be wrong but they pulled out of lcd business awhile ago.
 
It was a small display table, and she was coming component out of the camera into the "professional" line of LCD monitors (maybe 20"?).

They had a DVC PRO demo running on a Panasonic plasma a few feet away.
 
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