HVX - V - Red

C

Corine

Well-known member
I have seen some great footage from the HVX200 and some bad footage from the Red. It seems so many people want to do a film with the Red when you have an HVX200 that gives great footage or am I wrong on this subject? I don't know maybe I'm just barking up the wrong tree?

Also what is a daily rental fee on a Red?

From what I understand you need a top system to edit footage from a Red. I know you can't edit on FCP or Vegas using Red. You need a much better editing system.

Okay I'm just :zombie_smiley: yaking
 
You use the tools that fit your needs, it's that simple. No other explanation is really needed. There's so much more to it than what you mentioned.
 
uh yeah. you're totally and completely wrong.

first, FCP very much CAN edit red footage. you do need a higher end intel mac machine and fast drives to work comfortably, but you need that with just about any current footage.

I have seen some great footage from the HVX200 and some bad footage from the Red
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TRUE, but either camera is capable of spectacular footage, just depends on the ability of the person behind the camera. ive seen both great and crappy footage from HVXs as well as REDs.
technically the red has far better latitude, higher res, more options, etc, etc... but its also WAY WAY WAY MORE EXPENSIVE. whats more important is if you dont know how to use the red or youre a bad shooter to begin with - a better spec camera wont mean a hill o beans...

daily red rental will vary based on your market. but ive heard $700-900 is about average
 
I agree with all of the posts so far.

There are so many other issues, though. Like how long your takes will be. Or, can you wait a full minute for bootup on the RED? Or, the weight, and size once you've got a fully configured RED setup.

The thing is that unless you enter the 100,000+ USD cams (or the hpx3700), there tends to be a law of diminishing returns. At least that's what my eyes see. I got a hold of some footage (r3ds file, REDCODE 36) of a close up of a hand in daylight in 4k, and exported it to TIFF. I took a similar shot of my own hand outside (with a hvx200 original, not the A), there was not as much light on my hand as the day was not as bright. (FYU, I now own an hmc150, which I think looks much better, but the hpx170, and the 200a are great looking too, of course.)

I took both shots, and brought them into shake, and properly uprezzed the HVX to 4k. The red one was DEFINITELY sharper, but the surprising thing was by how much. It wasn't nearly the difference I thought it would be! Also, the noise was better, but again, not what I was expecting. I was expecting an almost noise-free image with all of the hype. Sure enough there were plenty of compression artifacts with REDCODE. 1.2 to 1.5mbs per frame is pretty small for a native 4k image.

The other thing, and this is the panny mojo at work, and honestly, I don't know how they do it... the color was a bit richer on the HVX, despite a few rounds of tweaking with REDCINE.

They just look different. The RED one and the EX1 look amazingly similar. Maybe it's the cmos, but I doubt with the complexity of these machines it would come down to 1 factor.

But that seems to be the trend. Sony/Red, great, sharp images with toned down color. Panny, with the deep rich color, and soft images.

It's a compromise between preference and logistics. We all want the perfect camera, but they all really do have a look of their own. Despite the RAW workflow, the RED really does have a "look" to it regardless.

So, I'm going on and on, but the easiest way to decide is: Can you afford (or do you want?) a larger crew, longer setup times, in exchange for sharper images that look a certian way. Or does the hvx (hopefully you'd go with the HPX or HMC as the noise is much better) look good enough, knowing it's much less cumbersome and you'd have the option of a much smaller crew. And yes it comes down to the talent of the operator.

Lastly, I do think people put too much into what image looks "better." Film is an art. What image do you Want?

As far as editing, it depends if you go online/offline, native, or bringing it into an easier to edit master quality codec after first light. So don't worry too much about editing. You should have a powerful system no matter what. DVCPRO HD is more forgiving, but if you want it to look it's best you'd be finishing in a better 10-bit codec anyway.

Anyway, good luck with whatever your project is, and I hope whatever choice you make benefits you well! Take care.
 
Yeah I edited a RED feature on FCP so careful their... I dont really see this thread having any value at all. Its a no brainer that the RED is better then the HVX and it really cant even be compared. Its a matter of $30,000 or $5,000
 
lairhair said:
Yeah I edited a RED feature on FCP so careful their... I dont really see this thread having any value at all. Its a no brainer that the RED is better then the HVX and it really cant even be compared. Its a matter of $30,000 or $5,000
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Careful with that logic, though. Because many try to argue that RED is better than F23 or F35, and that puts you at 30,000 versus space shuttle prices. I don't know if you are one of those people, but they are out there.

Price is one method of the very first step in evaluating the class of a camcorder. Yes you get what you pay for, but it's not concrete, and we were never discussing whether the images was superior or not; rather, was the HVX more appropriate for the conditions the OP would be shooting, and would the image be good enough?
 
I wouldn't say the RED is better than the HVX...

They are very different cameras for different purposes. The HVX has caught on like wildfire in the news media industry. Is the RED better than the HVX in that arena? Not by a long shot. In fact, the HVX would run circles around the RED.

For film making, the HVX can hold it's own. You've seen that every quarterly fest they have here. So you are right, they can't be compared. Because they are two totally different leagues.

They are different tools for different matters. Which is better? A hammer or a screwdriver? Well it would depend on what you are trying to get accomplished.

At thisman: Agree 1,000% with your note. People consistently compare the RED and the F35 and Genesis (and all of the rest of the Digital Cinema Systems), it's rather funny. But at the center of my argument - you can't drop a blanket statement like > Red is better and expect it to hold up.
 
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lairhair said:
Yeah I edited a RED feature on FCP so careful their... I dont really see this thread having any value at all. Its a no brainer that the RED is better then the HVX and it really cant even be compared. Its a matter of $30,000 or $5,000
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Value or no value you did take the time to put your 2 cent in :grin:
 
Mattykins said:
I wouldn't say the RED is better than the HVX...

They are very different cameras for different purposes. The HVX has caught on like wildfire in the news media industry. Is the RED better than the HVX in that arena? Not by a long shot. In fact, the HVX would run circles around the RED.

For film making, the HVX can hold it's own. You've seen that every quarterly fest they have here. So you are right, they can't be compared. Because they are two totally different leagues.

They are different tools for different matters. Which is better? A hammer or a screwdriver? Well it would depend on what you are trying to get accomplished.

At thisman: Agree 1,000% with your note. People consistently compare the RED and the F35 and Genesis (and all of the rest of the Digital Cinema Systems), it's rather funny. But at the center of my argument - you can't drop a blanket statement like > Red is better and expect it to hold up.
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For me as a DP and having worked with the HVX and RED the RED walks all over the HVX technically. Logistically, sure the HVX holds its own. Since it was never specified what the use was for or what the budget was their is no defense either way. And Matt thats a pretty crappy metaphor man. If anything its a ball peen hammer to a normal gold plated hammer. And if you are giving me crap about saying the RED is better then the HVX then what exactly was the point of this thread? Does this person really want us to state the obvious that the HVX shoots 1080p and the RED shoots 4k?
 
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