HVX underwater

I have shot underwater for many years and shoot mostly surfing, and underwater no more than 20 feet. I am currently having a custom housing designed for the HVX200 by the world famous surf cinematographer Sonny Miller. The housing is made out of aluminum and will have basic controls for zoom, focus,iris, record, on/off with a plexiglass front port with the stock lens and another port for a .6 or even fisheye.

This housing will be able to shoot big pounding surf, off a jetski, wakeboarding to swimming. The custom housing will be much lighter than a gates and great for anyone who needs a water housing but not for diving. I'm curious as to what you would be willing to spend for a custom housing like this? I was thinking around $3000...........any thoughts, input
 
That's basically what we are looking for...a non-diving...under 20 feet enclosure. Isn't $3k about what a Gates costs? (Not sure). The lightweight is certainly a plus, but if it's a solid piece, I would say $3k is probably fair. $2999 would be better. :). What's the time frame for that?
 
I think a gates housing is at least $5000 ? as for the housing I'm having made it will be done in about 2 weeks and I'm not sure how long after that they will start producing for the open market. I will keep the boards posted when I get more info.
 
CamDiver said:
Hi All,
I'm an underwater cameraman living in Palau. Been working and shooting commercially for 15 years. Clients include Nat Geo, WWF (World Wildlife Fund not the wrestlers!) YLE, Finland - SBS, Korea, Channel 7 Australia etc etc etc. I've also produced my own short films and am currently owning a filming and video concession at a large dive concern in Palau. I have also been looking at the possibilities for taking this camera underwater.

The first issue I address is the short recording time offered by the P2 cards. 16, 32 even 64Gb cards may well be introduced in the future but even with the current lack of stock, and difficulty in obtaining them, for thos wanting to get this baby wet the 8Gb option is all there is at the moment. So that leaves the possibility to look at utilizing the Cineporter with this camera. OK, I've been in touch with Gates, the underwater camera housing company, who are the only serious housing company with a housing available for this camera. IF I wanted to get this camera fitted with a custom enclosure for the Cineporter seeing as there is insufficiene space inside the housing for it the cost to develop a dedicated enclosure was quoted to me personally by John Fullerbrook, the owner of Gates, for a cost of ....... $15,000!!! Thats just the enclosure. More than the camera and housing combined.

Second issue is the lack of a dedicated field monitor of a size sufficient to work with underwater. I don't know about you guys but I like to look at a good well lit monitor when shooting. The Gates does not have any ports to see the camera monitor and neither is their viewfinder magnified so that leaves the requirement for a good 16:9 monitor for the housing. Gates were of the mind that their 4" 4:3 monitors were good enough for the job but I beg to differ. SO I looked at the Marshall V-R70P-HDA 7" monitor and asked for a quote for a housing to accommodate that. Gates again quoted me......$15,000 for the monitor enclosure.

Real term requirement to get this camera wet and be able to work in a way that will not require bounce dives to change out the cards is currently ballpark $43k. Then add all the peripherals for P2 workflow and you get the idea.......not cheap!!!

Just to give you a heads up on the potential costs involved.

I also hang out at an underwater forum, www.wetpixel.com and theer is one of the moderators by the name of Scuba Dru who has taken this camera underwater in a prototype Gates housing and he reported that the imagery he shot with the system seemed a bit soft. That could be down to the optics, maybe the Fathoms I'm not sure and it could also have been down to the issue of the monitor not being of a suitable rez for critical focus issues.

Just to keep you guys up to speed. I am still looking for the potential to adopt this camera as my main recording format but a bit more shopping around and tests need to be done before I part with what is in anyone's books a substantial pile of cash.

Cheers,
Mark.
Click to expand...


Since you're looking to spend so much... You might want to spend a few grand more and wait for RED. Then you've really got a monitor problem.
 
PolarBear,
Look at the EWA MARINE enclosures for what you need. Splash bags good for about 15ft. They can be a bit cumbersome with an inverted hand glove for manipulating the camera.

Critical focus issues with the Gates can be adressed by additional controls adapted to the housing post manufacture. Gates offer a flat fee of $85 per additional required control so no problem with that. I guess the unit previously used by the Wetpixel guy didn't have that feature. I haven't been able to contact him as I think he's off in Asia somewhere.

Other housing manufacturers include:

Light & Motion,
Amphibico (possibly)
Equinox (not the best camera control)

The main competitors are Gates and L&M.

Jeff: RED? Real Extreme Definition???

The Image "War" never stops. Our eyes are being fed information beyond their capacity as it is and we're supposed to continue forking out our cash to keep up with the Jones'....sorry but count me out. HD is the way for underwater. Let the topside boys worry about cutting edge formats. There will always be someone wanting to take anything underwater vut thats for people with larger budgets than me.

Cheers,
Mark.
 
Jason:
I would obviously be throwing some buoyancy devices on the housing to offset any negativity arising from the added enclosures. I was even thinking of looking at a larger than required Monitor enclosure to act in such a way, a monitor enclosure but also a redundant air space to offset buoyancy.

Frog:
I have used the Halcyon Apollo system 200w HMI's. They are a real nice light but at $4,500 each they should be!! I have two of them I use either camera mounted or for an assistant to carry when filming wrecks etc for the effects they can throw through holes and structures etc.

Cheers,
Mark.
 
$15,000? Hmm, considering the Gates HVX housing is only $5,500-$6,000 i think someone was trying to make a HUGE profit off you. i hope you didnt take the bait.

::: Connor
 
Seems that way. I contacted Gates and asked why the high quote. The answer was of course to cover the required RnD for the enclosure. My point to them was that if this enclosure turned out to be a winner what was to stop them making that product available to the masses therefore saving them the RnD expenditure? If that was to be the case then would I get a partial refund or shares in the product seeing as I was the one basically funding the enclosure development.

Of course I declined to go with that option expecting more from Gates in regards to them trying to maintain a better relationship with their pro clientele.

So I'm still looking for a more economic solution for these enclosures. I may still go with the Gates housing but at the moment thats as far as my shopping list goes with them.

Cheers,
Mark.
 
Mark,
Have you been in touch with any of the other big housing companies(Amphibico, Light & Motion, Sea & Sea) to see if they have a HVX housing in the pipeline? Seems like the rest of them just got their Sony FX1 housing on the market and aren't jumping too high at the prospect of getting a Panny set up ready. If you do go with Gates, I'd love to hear how you like it. Enjoy the water over there, I hear the diving is incredible!
 
Jason,
I met a few weeks ago with Dan Baldosch from L&M and they are not looking to house the Panny. Same response from Berkely White at Backscatter. I guess when people do their homework they realize that to seriously look at getting this camera wet there is a requirement far and above the regular housing option. The potential client base I'm sure just doesn't seem to warrant the RnD expediture. If the camera really takes of in the future, or its future generations then I'm sure we'll see a lot more of the serious manufacturers jumping in with their offerings. Until then I guess we have to look at seeing whats out there and then sourcing skilled individuals able to adapt the housing on a way as to make it a viable solution.

You're correct. The diving in Palau is awesome. A great place to film for archival footage when not under commission.

Cheers,
Mark.
 
Gates housing

Gates housing

"Critical focus issues with the Gates can be adressed by additional controls adapted to the housing post manufacture. "

What additional controls do you suggest for critical focus? I'm also thinking seriously about the Gates.

Thanks,

Ernie
 
Interesting news about the other big boys not going with a Panny housing. I guess Gates will have the lock down on the market for a while. It is a big cost to tool up for a new housing and they have been so Sony oriented in the past; I am surprised that they haven't embraced this cool camera by Panny. Anyway, guess it will be Gates for the time being. Thanks again for the info.
 
Hi Ernie,
I was relating to the cameras Focus Assist function. Gates does have this option on its housings but the issue still remains regarding the external monitor. No point in trying to set focus using the HVX200 on an incompatible monitor. Maybe my post sounded a bit misleading. Sorry for the confusion caused.

Jason, IMHO I don't think there will be sufficient demand for underwater manufacturers jumping in with offerings for this cam. The main stream client of housing manufacturers are mainly the hobbyist or those working at dive shops who want a fast uncluttered work flow. P2 would be both time consuming and costly for anyone looking to turn products, souvenir DVD etc, around in a day. This Cam is a serious offering as an economic solution to Indy filmmakers and those willing to try something a bit out of the ordinary. I believe in it's concept and potential. IF the peripheral requirements can be solved AND the workflow become more acceptable especially within the FCP realm then I will be going for this option. Until that happens I will be learning the camera topside and filling in with Z1 underwater footage for my projects.

Cheers,
Mark.
 
Mark,
I think the P2 workflow option would help speed up the workflow for people looking to turn around a DVD in a day. You could make a pretty nice dive video shooting on DVCPRO 50 (or Native), making the Anderson's wedding dive trip look specacular. And the time that you save by not having to capture all of that stuff is huge. Plug that P2 card into the PCMIA slot and you are off and running. I think it speeds up the workflow and FCP has been a breeze to work with.
If more of housing manufactres branched out a bit more, I bet they would find demand for the products. I suppose I am just hopefull and keeping my fingers crossed to see more underwater options for the HVX.
 
Jason,
I also own a photo video concession here in Palau and as such can tell you that when it gets busy with ten day boats full of divers out daily to the reefs of Palau you need fast turnaround. I have videographers on those boats and when they get back the first thing the clients want is to check out the raw fgootage. We display that on a regular screen in the bar area so they can unwind. At the same time it's being captured to FCP. A few titles added and soundtrack, the films are shot in a set sequence that don't require editing save for any hiccups or current induced camera shake. The final file is being output to Mpeg 2 within 10 minutes of the footage airing. Could that be accomplished with this camera?

I don't see the point of going to the kind of expense this camera requires in order to get it wet and then start shooting in anything other than the DVCProHD100 Codec. That would be like buying a Ferrari and only driving it in first gear.

I'm not trying to dampen the fire works here but I would only be looking at pro applications for this camera.

Thanks for your views. Been a while since there's been any good underwater discussions for this camera.

Cheers,
Mark.
 
Mark,
That does sound like a fair bit of chaos with ten boats going out and coming back with eager divers looking to see themselves with that frogfish. I can understand why quick turn around is a must in those situations. I guess the question is how much footage do you shoot with tape to cover any given outing? If it is anything over 30-40 minutes, the HDV tape may still be the best way to go. As far as coming back and bringing it into FCP, P2 is lighting compared to capturing with tape.
I was thinking of shooting the tourist DVD's on DVCPRO HD to save recording times for the cards. Since Blu Ray isn't out yet, we are in hardware limbo when trying get our HD footage out to the public in mass quantity. So even if we do shoot HD or HDV, getting that onto a dvd to watch is still a real pain. But for professional purposes I totally agree with you, drop the Ferrari into 5th and see what she can do.
Thanks right back at you for your views. Its great to have some good underwater discussion on here.
best,
Jason
 
Jason,
Yeah it does get chaotic at times. The daily films last some 30 minutes with topside stuff shot on small PC series cameras and mixed to the final film. IF this was being done in HD(V) then we would just downrez on output and maintain our HD libraries until Blu Ray becomes more available to the masses. Tape is still the option at the moment, until 16Gb P2 options are introduced, and quite when that will be is anyone's guess. Then of course its all down to how quickly people can get their hands on them keeping in mind the apparent difficulty in finding and getting 8Gb cards at the moment. I'm sure once these larger capacity cards become more readily available the HVX will be a true contender for this kind of work but until then its still very limiting.

Cheers,
Mark.
P.S Just heard from the horses mouth that Gates are looking to make a housing for RED!!!!
 
A gates housing for Red, that will be interesting. By the sounds of things, we may not being seeing Red for the next year or so. But when that does it the market, I'm sure it will be a pretty hot items. And underwater......I am sure it would be incredible.
thanks for the report Mark.
 
HoffmannFilms said:
I have shot underwater for many years and shoot mostly surfing, and underwater no more than 20 feet. I am currently having a custom housing designed for the HVX200 by the world famous surf cinematographer Sonny Miller. The housing is made out of aluminum and will have basic controls for zoom, focus,iris, record, on/off with a plexiglass front port with the stock lens and another port for a .6 or even fisheye.

This housing will be able to shoot big pounding surf, off a jetski, wakeboarding to swimming. The custom housing will be much lighter than a gates and great for anyone who needs a water housing but not for diving. I'm curious as to what you would be willing to spend for a custom housing like this? I was thinking around $3000...........any thoughts, input
Click to expand...

Hi Derek,
Have you used any of Sonny's housings & what did you think of them? I've been getting Dave Kelly (here in Oz) to make mine & i've been happy with him, except that he's flat out busy right now...
 
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