HVX or FILM?

abalex said:
Alright! Here is the one that brough all this trouble to you guys but hopefully helped to understand a few things, things that we all needed to know.

First of all THANK YOU so much for the time you spend writing your opinions. I believe that the digital era is here, now, and that will continue growing.
Honestly I want to shoot my movie on film because i like the look and feel of it. I grew up with a panasonic M2500(VHS shoulder mount camera) and edited my movies while I was shooting them, used the audio doubing option to add music to the movies, all just using my camera as my editing suite. So as you can see I did a lot with video(I know HD is different but still...)

To help you visualize and understand the look and feel of my project I'll name a few titles: Garden State, everything it's illuminated, The thumbsucker, thrirteen, Elephant, Junebug, BottleRocket, brick(new release) just to name a few....

The goal? Take the movie to festivals and try to sell it. One big example of team work and good story would be PRIMER. they've shot their movie for 7000 dollars, used S16, and sold it to ThinkFILM. The crew were the actors, just four guys an a big desire to make it.

Pieces of april was shot with a PD 150 and none cared. So first of all I'll make sure I have a good script that is worth all this trouble, then I'll think about the medium I'll use to shoot it. film is not dead and will never die. More film cameras are being created and better film stock it's being produced while I'm writing these lines.

Again thank you guys for all your advise and time spent on this threat. I promise I'll keep my eye on the HVX..

GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK.
G.



I get where you're coming from, and I agree that you as the artist should decide the medium, film or digital. Since I don't come from a film background as such, rather storytelling and photography, I'm on a bit of a runway to getting a feature done. I have no end of stories to tell, all speculative fiction. But I've decided to bite off a small enough bite to start with, one that I can actually swallow. Being a one-man show is something I've always enjoyed wrapping my wits around, whatever the endeavor. But storytelling, visual storytelling as in film, is the most compelling medium possible in our time, and maybe for all time.

The story I'm biting off is a short, but it's a story that has some real horsepower, and it's without doubt the best thing I've ever created. As a short movie, done right, it'd literally knock one's socks off. Sure, it'd be a bit controversial (and what good story wouldn't). My point here is, like everything else we learn and ply to good effect, moviemaking (filmmaking) for someone from another dicipline (or inexperienced) must be approached on a gradient. So I am wrapping my wits around what will probably wind up a short of likely no more than 15 minutes in length, but one I'm able to wrap my wits about.

I too am aiming for the festival circuit, but I believe that by picking an impactful story, doing it right, and getting it on the right screens, I will find a sympathetic audience. Where I live in the midwest we have no small number of short films being created, and you would be surprised at what actually makes it onto the screens of festivals like SUNDANCE. I suggest you check out their web site (Sundance that is). All shorts that were accepted into the 2006 competition are available for viewing on the web, for free. It's a real education just checking them out--especially what won. Some are what I'd call art, others I'd have to describe as just perhaps the best of the mundane crap that's being made today. But it shows that the bar really isn't very high to being accepted into such a festival.

The real crux of what I'm getting at is this. With so many people in this world wanting to be entertained and so few storytellers really offering anything worthy of the viewers (readers) time, there's a lot of really mediocre work being published/produced. So a lot of what's being viewed or read is stuff that in a smaller world (say our world from Dickens through the 1930's) would never be produced or published. One doesn't have to be a Spielberg or a Lucas to find an audience, but I think one would find success most likely starting out taking little steps as he starts.

If your dream is somethng like Sundance, and then an Adademy Award, then you can do that with a short film too. And maybe even have a better chance because you'd be competing against others at a similar point on the gradient (runway) toward a big production. There are some really great short films out there, some are making it all the way every year. If you are planning on being there Oscar night then put a film (and I use the term losely on this particular thread) in the Palm Springs Short Film Festival. That's where the winners usually wind up accepted for nomination to the Oscar for best short film competition. And you can submit to them on DVD, and won't have to do a film transfer unti you are one of the two best in the competition. (Hell, they even have a short film market at the Palm Springs Festival where your film will be available to the short film market whether you are a winner or not, just for being accepted into the competition). Check out their site on the web. It happens every year, and it's much easier with a short Oscar under your belt to have someone take you seriously on your first feature.

For what it's worth,

Carey
 
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this is the end, my dear friend.......

this is the end, my dear friend.......

Thanks CareyB! You understand my point of view and I thank you for that. I recently finish a short film titled OF GENIES AND GOLDFISH, you know it is fun working on shorts but right now I want to switch gears and shoot a feature. I just want to tell more and for that I need to shoot something that is more than 15min only. Shorts are good excersise and if that's all you want to do I think they're fine. I love writing and directing my own shorts. It's a unique way of expression and only those who risk everything and have great and unique ideas are the ones that will make it. Hollywood doesn't even know I exist, but it depends on me to show them that Im here ready to work and bring new ideas.

I think I'll go for it and shoot my movie on super 16, it is possible! why not! it will be a great experience for me and a great acomplishment for my future carrier.

I sugest you renting a movie called THE SEA INSIDE(oscar for best foreing film2005 or 2004). It was made by the guy who did THE OTHERS. He's from spain. Rent the dvd and watch the special features, it's like an hour or something of just pure film school from the screenplay to the end product. The movie it's based on a true story so it makes the process more personal and pasionate.

Thank you for your kind comments and advice. I'll check Palm spring. The people from sundance and slamdance are so tired of me cause every year Im sending a new movie but never got selected. I'll just keep trying

Peace out brotha
g.
 
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pkendall said:
Me and George Lucas would disagree.



I'd be surprised if George Lucas could even remember what his HD photography looked like under the impudent slew of CGI that was "Revenge of the Sith".

But all CGI crap-fest animosity aside:
Why would George Lucas disagree? - it is clear that film has more information and more latitude than does top of line video. George Lucas has merely illustrated that video is faster, less expensive, and works more efficiently with an all digital workflow than do film cameras. George Lucas has never said it looks better, that would be flat out ridiculous. Video has not reached the point where it matches film (on paper). Will this ever happen?: Yeah, video is already very impressive and it's still young. I don't know that it will ever look BETTER than film. I mean: who cares anyway? ... I mean after 4k, 6k and so on - how much more freaking resolution do you need? - there's a time to stop R&D for a while and just go make some damn movies.


 
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Andrew M said:


I'd be surprised if George Lucas could even remember what his HD photography looked like under the impudent slew of CGI that was "Revenge of the Sith".

But all CGI crap-fest animosity aside:
Why would George Lucas disagree? - it is clear that film has more information and more latitude than does top of line video. George Lucas has merely illustrated that video is faster, less expensive, and works more efficiently with an all digital workflow than do film cameras. George Lucas has never said it looks better, that would be flat out ridiculous. Video has not reached the point where it matches film (on paper). Will this ever happen?: Yeah, video is already very impressive and it's still young. I don't know that it will ever look BETTER than film. I mean: who cares anyway? ... I mean after 4k, 6k and so on - how much more freaking resolution do you need? - there's a time to stop R&D for a while and just go make some damn movies.




Indeed! I love film.. want to shoot it whenever I can, and someone else is paying for it and/or if I have a budget to afford it again. I am however against having to make expensive prints....


Film for acquisition.. and digital for presentation. That will be around for a long time. I absolutely love the look of a pristine digital projection.. that looks the same 1000 times projected.. Can't say a film print would look pristine anytime except the first time it's ran through a projector... and God forbid, if you have a projector problem or an operator error...

And what about the sheer number of film prints you would need for festivals... and all that... NO ones is doubting the quality of film, but there is certainly a growing entry in other venues... and it's coming whether ya want it or not. The only reason it's taking a while is the conversion costs, but once that happens in earnest... projection will change.
 
Justyn said:
Indeed! I love film.. want to shoot it whenever I can, and someone else is paying for it and/or if I have a budget to afford it again. I am however against having to make expensive prints....


Film for acquisition.. and digital for presentation. That will be around for a long time. I absolutely love the look of a pristine digital projection.. that looks the same 1000 times projected.. Can't say a film print would look pristine anytime except the first time it's ran through a projector... and God forbid, if you have a projector problem or an operator error...

And what about the sheer number of film prints you would need for festivals... and all that... NO ones is doubting the quality of film, but there is certainly a growing entry in other venues... and it's coming whether ya want it or not. The only reason it's taking a while is the conversion costs, but once that happens in earnest... projection will change.

Having never seen a movie projected on a dedicated 2k/4k digital cinema projector I could not comment as to the quality or my opinion of it. But I do remember reading somewhere about a study conducted farely recently (I don't know how or where, and yes it is subjective) which concluded [from the participants in the study] that people genreally have a richer (and more emotional) connection to the same movies projected on celluloid than they do with ones projected digitally.

I myself have always been happy with film projection but I hope I have a chance sometime soon to catch a flick projected digitally and see for myself. I would probably have a better chance at a film fest if I am to see a digital projection anytime soon: like you said the conversion cost (which for the entire nation would be in the billions) is going to put it off for a while [for theaters].

"NO ones is doubting the quality of film..."

Come again? …

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianluce
because film looks better,


"Me and George Lucas would disagree."
 
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No ones doubting it.. I just don't go ga-ga over it and call it the end all be all...


I also check out almost every movie I can at the digital projection theater here in town... especially for animated features.. and for Star wars...


Maybe people like film because they love seeing the cigarette burns at the top for the reel changes.. like seeing the jumps between reels aand ultimately love the dancing hairs and scratches... Hmmmm.. that's some lovely dirt on that film... I love seeing an old beat up print.... I like to wait 4 months before going to see a movie... and I hit the jackpot when the film breaks... man that's entertainment there...
 
One thing I do not like with film is bad projection, bad projector, and dirty copies. Sometimes I see something in the cinema that is way off the original. With digital you keep the quallity the same although they are distributing it online/satelite and with compressed data.
 
Justyn said:
No ones doubting it.. I just don't go ga-ga over it and call it the end all be all...


I also check out almost every movie I can at the digital projection theater here in town... especially for animated features.. and for Star wars...


Maybe people like film because they love seeing the cigarette burns at the top for the reel changes.. like seeing the jumps between reels aand ultimately love the dancing hairs and scratches... Hmmmm.. that's some lovely dirt on that film... I love seeing an old beat up print.... I like to wait 4 months before going to see a movie... and I hit the jackpot when the film breaks... man that's entertainment there...

Some very funny stuff...
 
Like I said I really do want to see a digital projection. BUT - I am a fan of SOME of the organic qualities of film (ie SUBTLE GRAIN). Does a digital projection mantain some of these qualities? - Can you see the grain? (I AM asking)

BTW In all my years of movie going I have only expirenced one film break. It was during Titanic and I must adimit - Being half way though, then having to leave for an hour because the reel breaks, then having to come back and watch the whole damn thing again was extremely annoying!
 
Andrew M said:


I'd be surprised if George Lucas could even remember what his HD photography looked like under the impudent slew of CGI that was "Revenge of the Sith".

But all CGI crap-fest animosity aside:
Why would George Lucas disagree? - it is clear that film has more information and more latitude than does top of line video. George Lucas has merely illustrated that video is faster, less expensive, and works more efficiently with an all digital workflow than do film cameras. George Lucas has never said it looks better, that would be flat out ridiculous. Video has not reached the point where it matches film (on paper). Will this ever happen?: Yeah, video is already very impressive and it's still young. I don't know that it will ever look BETTER than film. I mean: who cares anyway? ... I mean after 4k, 6k and so on - how much more freaking resolution do you need? - there's a time to stop R&D for a while and just go make some damn movies.



that's right ANDREW.
 
Andrew M said:
BTW In all my years of movie going I have only expirenced one film break. It was during Titanic and I must adimit - Being half way though, then having to leave for an hour because the reel breaks, then having to come back and watch the whole damn thing again was extremely annoying!

My gosh, what kind of theater was this in? I've experience two film breaks, and both of them only took a few minutes to get the film up and running again. They booted everyone out of the theater for an hour???
 
you're too worry about prints JUSTYN. Just shoot your movie on film and then do the telecine and transfer all your footage into DVcam , edit on FCP (or whatever) and then keep you original cut on DVcam tape as a master, you can even send copies of the movie on tape to the festivals. If the distributor likes your movie they will pay for the prints. If you want more info about shooting cheap s16mm and making it work go to: http://www.cinematechnic.com/southern_justice/workflow_southern_justice.html

also check www.primermovie.com

g.
 
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Seen from the point of view of a small third-world country like the Dominican Republic it´s annoying to have to travel to Buenos Aires for processing your stock (thats where people here reveal their 35mm material) With HD you have much more of the workflow under control: That´s why digital producing is getting that popular here.
 
abalex said:
Just shoot your movie on film and then do the telecine and transfer all your footage into DVcam , edit on FCP (or whatever) and then keep you original cut on DVcam tape as a master, you can even send copies of the movie on tape to the festivals. If the distributor likes your movie they will pay for the prints.

g.

Damn Straight.
 
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