HVX or EX1?

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My initial reaction that was posted was posted right after I saw someone hit every forum I traffic with "shootout" footage and claiming that the EX1 was three stops (THREE STOPS!) faster than the HVX. Preposterous. And I'd seen over and over people claiming that it's immune to rolling shutter effects and all sorts of stuff. I spent a day and a half with it and came away decidedly less impressed. Maybe my initial post had more of a "guys, what's the big deal?" tone to it than it might otherwise have had, but after endless hype, that's the way I felt.

As for your other tests, I didn't respond because I don't have any way to evaluate the info. I'm living off my laptop right now, and I don't have access to an EX1 although I might be able to get near one this weekend. I allowed early on that it's possible that the res issue was motion blur, but I also said then, as I feel now, that that's not necessarily the full explanation. And I'd like to delve more into it. When I know more, I'll post more. Until then, I posted what I saw and I threw it out there for others to play with and evaluate. Maybe someone would have some insight, but so far none has come through.

Am I just crazy? Maybe, but I don't think so. And until I get more time to work with it, there's nothing more I can say -- I and everyone else looked at the waveform and said "what the heck's going on?" and I allow that it's possible that it's motion blur, but it didn't seem to be. What more can I say? Sooner or later I'll figure out what it is, or if it truly really was just motion blur.

As for this forum developing its "own set of truths", dude... come on.
 
DevonSloan said:
Are you MAD? I cant possibly determine if something looks like video or not quite right if I have never touched the camera?

What are you talking about?
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I said they were pointless especially coming from people who had never touched the camera.

In fact they are pointless coming from anybody at all. Subjective, ethereal and meaningless.

But at least if you had tested the camera you would know that you can probably tweak your footage so that it "looks like film" to you.
 
By the way, I will give another try with EX1 when I get the Brevis flip unit.

Probably this weekend. That might focus up the pros of EX1.

Another thing I didn't get to try is to shoot live music performance in a club. I'm thinking it could be very good for that. Also lower the sharpness to see.

So, I won't give up just yet.

I would recommend to rent EX1 to make your own decision, but make sure you judge after shooting all of your shooting styles and do some proofing on HD monitors.
 
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Kaku Ito said:
By the way, I will give another try with EX1 when I get the Brevis flip unit.

Probably this weekend. That might focus up the pros of EX1.

Another thing I didn't get to try is to shoot live music performance in a club. I'm thinking it could be very good for that. Also lower the sharpness to see.

So, I won't give up just yet.

I would recommend to rent EX1 to make your own decision, but make sure you judge after shooting all of your shooting styles and do some proofing on HD monitors.
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Excellent idea, especially with any new camera with new technology.
 
I think I would buy EX1 if they had put 3CCD instead of CMOS. Then I would not have the pulsing wave nor picture going out of shape.

Good report. and I am willing to fork out another 1 grand if they use CCD instead of CMOS

Will Sony will going back to CCD for the sub 10K cam?
 
Sony put out an article in government video magazine and on televisionandbroadcast.com, talking about CMOS vs. CCD. In it they say that CCD is the better technology for digital cinema, and that CMOS is their preferred solution for small handheld cameras. The exact quote was:
Right now, for the most demanding electronic cinematography requiring the widest dynamic range and highest image quality, CCD is the best choice, while CMOS technolgoy is the best choice for HD handheld cameras.
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Interpret that how you will.
 
That makes no sense to me....The handheld cameras are the ones that will force CMOS to exhibit all of its bad tendencies the most. Out in the field, shaky footage, whip pans, heavy vibrations and uncontrolled lighting situations where there are flashes, strobes...

If anything, I'd feel much better using an EX-1 or other CMOS cam in a controlled studio environment. Stands to reason you'd probably never have a problem if you could take your time to safeguard against CMOS's handicaps. But everything I've read makes me think that CMOS is crap out in the field for run and gun, live, news or event type coverage.
 
matthew77 said:
Vince - yes, agree 100%


The only key difference is the so called "rolling shutter." That is a fundamental difference, but not one that should detract from the "film look," given that film cameras have a form of rolling shutter, approximately (yes - even Panavision cameras can get "partial exposure" from stray camera flashes).

response:

Film exposure is actually more akin to global exposure in that it's "dimmed up" progressively as the shutter opens and dimmed down as well. It's nothing like CMOS rolling shutter. I've never gotten the rolling shutter artifacts from CMOS on film such as a hard exposure line, skew or wobbles. Just not possible. This is a big deal, especially if you like to do a lot of kinetic (hand held, vehicles, etc) camerawork or deal with strobes, gunfire, etc.

That said, I still haven't seen any clear and convincing footage that shows the EX's artifacts to be a big issue (and I don't mean in a frame by frame or still pic basis). Someone show me some lousy CMOS artifacts from the EX with moving images (I thought Kaku's footage actually makes a good case for the EX). I've seen the RED strobe issues.
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I hear there's some issue about replacing CCD when CCD deteriates (loosing gas inside?) which makes companies to loose a lot of money.
It was said there's less chances for CMOS to have the same issue.
My source said that is the main reason why Sony wants to get out of CCD business.
I don't know if this is real or not.
 
Kaku Ito said:
Probably this weekend. That might focus up the pros of EX1.
Another thing I didn't get to try is to shoot live music performance in a club. I'm thinking it could be very good for that. Also lower the sharpness to see.
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I can give you a hand if you like (schedule depending).
 
That'll be great Noel, you are experienced with 35mm adapter, too.
Only problem is that I can get EX1 only over night.

Picking it up friday night 10pmish and return it by Saturday afternoon.
 
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Why is it when someone posts anything positive about a camera other than Panasonic here, they automatically become a fanboy! LOL..

Thanks guys, you now have our whole office in stitches here...LOL

Especially, from "some" who have a camera as their avatar, and call other fansboys. Now who's the fanboys here....

Now for the record. Nobody's hiding anything here.. Look back AND YOU will see I posted the vignetting issue withn ONE day of owning my camera.

This is a pro forum for sharing ideas? Oh please...
 
Stevet, should you not be working in your office, instead of typing here then?

Anyway why do you like to provocate and act superior to folk on these threads? You're like a sarcastic schoolgirl that uses indirect remarks to incite etc. Remember that guy that was kicking ur ass all over the place on this forum, for that exact reason? These forums are among the most fequented by filmmakers of the web exactly because they are open.

You offensively LOL at everything and apparently your 'office' co workers, are laughing at everything you incite. I doubt it, your one of the worst kind of nerds, a nerd with a hyper ego. Thats not because u like one cam or another, its because you act like a jerk on these boards.

I think you fancy yourself some kind of alternative version of Barry Green but lol your more like, a ball of soot and poo imo ;)
 
Yah ;) again you can't swap between acting like a jerk steve and acting all dignified.

Now I can't be as dignified as the mods, especially guys like BG, but that gives me the freedom sometimes to call a spade a spade. So you can feign offense at my 'response' Steve, but while you mock the cam of choice for folks with faint praise, lols, and other provocations just because they don't share your preference, then well, what else does it make you look like, but a jerk?

Now my office is lauging... oh wait there not, there adults.
 
Hey Noel Evans and Kaku Ito, Just noticed you guys are Tokyo based. Im moving back there as of February 2nd(Two weeks from now) I have an EXDCAM EX1 and want to get out and film stuff. I want to offer my camera to you guys for any tests you want to put it through( short of throwing it off a bridge) Im new to the HD game so Id get alot of benefit from observing some professionals work it. ill be Shibuya based as well so lets get out there if youre up for it.
Kubalsky
 
You are welcome to join us Kubalsky.

With your EX1 it would be easier to spend more time to get better settings and I will have the complete 35mm imager soon, too.
 
Stevet said:
Especially, from "some" who have a camera as their avatar, and call other fansboys. Now who's the fanboys here....
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Now I must take issue somewhat, due to the fact i am the only one in this thread who has a camera as an avatar, I just assume then you are referring to me. I dont think I am being too sensitive here. The fact is I have never used the word fanboy other than to say that I am not one.

The simple fact is from time to time I actually get paid work via people finding me on DVXuser, i think its useful to have it.
 
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