HVX or EX1?

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Yah, we'll need to give work to all those exhibition booth girls as, before the next trade show they'll be hard up and needing the work!
 
matthew77 said:
lawriejaffa,

I agree that beauty comes from acquisition, as well as in post. As a shooter, one should pay very careful attention to what one puts before the lens, in terms of lighting, composition, etc.

But to have your acquisition stained by some sort of camera mojo as opposed to being a transparent view of what you have set in front of the camera is less than ideal.

Kodak do not set out to make their film stocks with mojo. They make their film stocks so that they are sensitometrically balanced and record the truest possible image. Because film is photochemical is has its idiosyncrasies.

With these new digital cameras we have the opportunity to bring home a truer version of what we saw and created on the shoot. I favor the camera that lets me bring more of that home with me, and spares me from its particular mojo.

Sometimes, after a shoot, there's enough on-set mojo captured already. Sometimes I know that my mojo will be as collaboration between shooting and post. I always want the camera that brings home the most on-set mojo for me to work with.

As these cameras advance, we will be able to capture more of that on-set mojo and bring more of it home with us. The EX1 currently clearly does this - it has higher resolution, lower noise and and greater dynamic range than its predecessors.

And when the Panny HVX300 rev B comes out I will likely buy it, as I am sure it will let me capture even more of my on set mojo, and color it with even less of its camera mojo.

That's all I have to say on the matter.
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I'm chimin' in here to say that I, as an HVX owner, dislike being able to pick out HVX footage from a host of others. There's a thread I started back a year or more ago about the DVX/HVX mojo and how it affects image distinction or indivualism.

EX-1 has it's own mojo, and I'm sure in time you'll be able to spot an EX-1 shot short, film, documentary, etcetera. Then again, that depends on post "adjustment" or what's done in camera to begin with.

All of these Cameras have mojo. Even RED ONE has a certain "feel" to the footage and so do the F23 examples I've seen. At the end of the day, they're different stocks for the most part.

I'm guilty of this, because I'm on the boards instead of writing right now (with a targeted deadline for end of February on a feature script?)... but, most of the people arguin' this thing seem to be filmmakers. We're not really concentrating on what really matters at this point in the game: the content.

The bottom line is just about everything from here on out (and I still wager an HV20 + LetusMini can produce an award-winning feature length movie) is enough for the penny-pinching filmmaker. We're just doing ourselves a disservice by spending so much time pitting the cameras against each other instead of finding a script to use them on.

Course, the debate DOES help bring costs down and from such things have been born greatness. I.E DVX, HVX, EX-1, and RED ONE.
 
lawriejaffa said:
Look Mathew honestly,

Like i say, the EX has higher res, less mojo in its imagery, weird to hold, funny workflow and rolling shutter... thats enough for me, for others the noisy hvx, lower res than EX etc makes it enough for them.

So...

The HVX is better than the EX
and
The EX is better than the HVX

People have GOOD reason to believe one or the other, and may well change from one to the other with frequency.

To be better than the EX the HVX200 doesnt need a revision, it already will be to most wanting what it does better and vice a versa? Get me?

So its so subjective and there is so no smoking gun, that means we're both entitled to be right mathew since we're both subjective? Get me?

So lets have a cigar and script a movie!
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You are so right. This is why i'm so undecided!:Drogar-BlackEye(DBG
 
Yep agreed Kholi, I think its ego which as men we all have in abundance and passion for the equipment that gets us to our goal (of becoming a filmmaking god.)

What we forget is that the creative process is all about humility and er humiliation haha, more about vulnerability than the confidence feigned around here about these machines. :)

I saw the other day footage from an F900, from two different DoPs, one of interiors was absolutely incredible, watching it i could have wet myself like a um schoolgirl (they don't so...) well like an incontinent old badger.

Then someone obviously less experienced had shot on it with some insane exposures and it could have almost (i swear) looked like SVHS, not the cams fault - working with an F900 would be like dating Optimus Prime, lol, but it just showed in the hands of one or another huge differences result.


- For you Someday, if its just the idea of a slightly higher res, then i think that imo is the wrong reason to get soley excited about a cam, as it ignores all the real reasons we love or hate em'

For example workflow, would you like using intermediate codecs for XDcam, and editing on the long gop? If you do then rock on - you benefit from a sharper res on a affordable cam! Then again if you shoot an event at night, kiss the hvx goodbye... (ok imo) then er make love to it in the morning when your cinegamma and colour reproduction makes your lighting setup look like a million bucks!

Honestly you cannot go wrong with either, but as a filmmaker price is also a difference, and you can get cracking deals on the hvx, so if your just chasing megapixils then think again! Play with em' both, its too much money to spend not doing so! But you surely won't go wrong with either!!! Just don't become a pain in the bum fanboy of whichever one you buy!!!!
 
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This is one busy thread. I go away for a jimmy riddle, come back and there have been 187 more posts.

Well it's time to put an end to this thread. Both these cameras are rubbish. But if you put a gun to my head and said choose one or I will force you to watch High School Musical on permanent loop then I would choose the EX1. Mainly because I sold my HVX to fund the EX1 and I couldn't use it even if I wanted to! Then again I always thought it smelt a bit like wee. Now, one can' t go on set with a smelly camera can one? is this common with Panasonic cameras or is more likely my cat took a dislike to it?

Now let's get onto something a little less contentious? Should we really have gone into Iraq?

P.S. You are all children and for punishment I am going to withhold your P2 cards, EX1 cards, tapes until you all have a nice big hug.
 
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Oh and I will be publishing my results of a shootout i did next week between my XDCAM F350 and a Nokia N95. I think you may find the results somewhat surprising...
 
philip bloom said:
Well it's time to put an end to this thread. Both these cameras are rubbish. But if you put a gun to my head and said choose one or I will force you to watch High School Musical on permanent loop then I would choose the EX1
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LOL !!!

Thank you Philip!
That has to be one of the funniest spins I ever read.

I actually find this stuff amusing... because, frankly I don't care.
I've owned a slew of these cameras. They're all decent for the money.

Lately, I came to rest on the EX1. I used it in a theater the other night. For the money, this is the cleanest footage1080P I've played back out of the 1TB of past cameras footage. Not bad for a small camera.

If someone does not like it the EX1, so be it. I'm hoping things improve over the next couple years. I'm sure they will with RED Scarlet (who knows, but it may be one heck of a camera). Also, Panasonic will now have to throw something out there. Hopefully it offers native 1080P with an improved codec. I'd be all over testing that out.
 
philip bloom said:
Oh and I will be publishing my results of a shootout i did next week between my XDCAM F350 and a Nokia N95. I think you may find the results somewhat surprising...
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Philip,

I don't see the need to publish that report, because we all know if a TV news director had to select between Nokia N95 footage of a fireman saving a child from a burning building or XDCAM F350 footage of paint drying, the news director will always pick the XDCAM footage!!!

:2vrolijk_08:

Besides, maybe this debate will move to something REALLY interesting, like who has better looking models in their booths at trade shows, Sony or Panasonic???


Best Wishes,

Bob Diaz
 
C'mon please it's a pain in the arse to me.
There are more reasons to be undecided. Here some examples:

If i change camera NOW i will trash 5k because i purchased the HVX 6 months ago, and if i sell it i will anyway have to add those 5k in order to get the EX1

If i wait for the HVX300 or the EX2, which will come out within 12months, my HVX value will drop and i will have to put not 5k but maybe 8k on a new camera.
 
Oh man, someday id relax, there both good cams anyway, an EX will only make a difference if its specific benefits are better for the work you do or vice a versa. There is no generic 'better cam'.

Look, the 'saving' one imagines by selling something after a few years is normally offset by the overpriced cost of buying something on fresh release. Bear that in mind lol and just buy or keep what does the job.
 
DevonSloan said:
There are three sides to consider and I wouldnt expect any one of them to be "correct". Those sides are:

HVX owner (non EX owner)
HVX owner now EX owner
And EX owner (non HVX owner)

And while the middle group may think they are the only unbiased, all three groups will come with some bias.

Thanks again.
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Seems I dont fit into those categories. And I really have tried to approach this without bias.

Yesterday I spent some time studying full res ex1 images, for reference was viewing on a 24 inch screen and 17 inch pana lcd broadcast monitor.

Does everyone know the Discovery show Sunrise Earth? Yeah beautiful (boring as shite - but beautiful). THis is like the ex1 image. Very high res, extremely clean. The image looks great. I love it.

The image however changed on motion, suddenly I was seeing strobbing in shots (about 1/3 down and 2/3 down) like two parallel bars thin on the sides, wide in the middle, faint of course but there. Then the pan stopped and so did the strange phenomena. Repeated on a few different shots. Also, once the camera moved, on any fine detail it was like a dancing moire party - though I suspect that could be corrected in settings. There were also small sections on edges that flickered at times. Then theres the stretch pull effect. Whereby it seems the image is made of elastic and pulled at the top and bottom, whereby the image dimensions actually changed. A tree or sign would become taller and then fluidly return to original shape.

In fact in every shot with motion there was something or other.

Please everyone dont hate me for an opinion. But I wouldnt recommend the EX1 to anyone other than someone who shoots from a non moving support (tripod).

Ive seen many shots come out of the ex that look great, but the camera motion is almost non existent.

I didnt post this comment for debate, I just posted what MY eyes clearly, saw. If you want me to clarify what it was I was seeing feel free to ask me to do so. But the clips I refer to are online for anyone to see.
 
Thats an interesting assumption in view of the fact we were viewing on the pana broadcast monitor via SDI out, and now I am at home on my own mac the issues are still clearly there. Sorry matthew, but I take great care not to misrepresent something. What I saw was from ONE camera. That ONE EX1 had these issues obviously. I just wanted to pass on what I saw.

And to be utterly clear about myself, you can go and ask anyone on these boards I was never a huge fan of the HVX TBH.
 
Hey Noel...

If you have a second can you please post some of these clips so we can check them out.

Also, how do you like Tokyo? Is it cool? Crazy?

And is it true you guys get crazy fast crazy cheap internet over their?
 
Stevet said:
Thanks for the Kaku links. Even the shaky EX1 car ride looks good.
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Steve yeah the shot is shaky but as it rounds the bend watch the transformation, trees grow taller as the image squishes, larger objects are more noticable. As well as the taxi interior expands and shrinks. Go through frame by frame and the distortion is much clearer.
 
Looks good to me...
Also, take your camera, go wide with it and pan across a room with varying objects from front to back. Every camera I've ever owned has noticeable lens distortion. Fortunately, the EX1 actuall fairs very well here. There's a tad more barrel at full wide than I wanted, but it's equal if not better than most in this price range.
 
Noel,

Read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_(photography)

In addition to the phenomena described in Wikipedia, you should know that wide angle lenses (in fact all "rectilinear" lenses) have the difficult task of taking a spherical world and projecting that onto a flat rectangular image plane. Objects at the edge of frame grow larger. It's physics.

Read this as well:

http://photo.net/learn/fisheye/

There is nothing in that taxi shot that seems abnormal to me.
 
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