hvx monitor: Dell 2405FPW $780

Yes I've used it with the HVX. It works pretty well, for the price. It isn't ideal, and it's a little heavy, but nothing like a CRT would be. Not bad, overall. Especially for the $800 price.
 
Barry, curious as to why it's not "ideal." Do you mean because of its size, it's not very easy to lug around as a production monitor on a set, or is the picture not even ideal for editing use in a home studio?

I'm thinking of purchasing one of these as well, but if the picture doesn't cut it, there isn't much point. It's natively 1920x1200 right?
 
It is, yes. And as a computer monitor it is perfect.

As a video monitor -- well, there's nothing wrong with it, it's just not a BT-LH1700W, you know? It does a fairly lousy job of scaling up SD, although its HD looks pretty good.

The picture appears to be a little overscanned; the viewfinder and the captured frame do not line up with what the monitor displays. It's close, but not exact. I think there's probably nothing like it for the price; the 1700 is 3x to 3.5x the price. The Dell is pretty nifty in that it provides for split-screen and P.I.P. and DVI and component and s-video and composite, plus it's got memory card readers for all the major formats... I mean, it's a fantastic tool. It's just not necessarily the ideal video production monitor. It's not bad, it's just not necessarily ideal.

But on a bang-for-the-buck basis it's hard to beat.
 
Split scren.. wow

Split scren.. wow

Barry,

I didn't know it does split sceen. How does that work? And do you think it could be A and B'd from like a laptop clip or waveforrm info through DVI scope and then some video back to the component video? Or more coherently as I don't know if I make sense with that idea, but is it easy to toggle back and forth between computer input and component?

I have to get a monitor and cheap is KING. Have you thought of a suitable C-stand mounting solution and battery supply?


Thanks for the awesome info

Justyn

Barry_Green said:
It is, yes. And as a computer monitor it is perfect.

As a video monitor -- well, there's nothing wrong with it, it's just not a BT-LH1700W, you know? It does a fairly lousy job of scaling up SD, although its HD looks pretty good.

The picture appears to be a little overscanned; the viewfinder and the captured frame do not line up with what the monitor displays. It's close, but not exact. I think there's probably nothing like it for the price; the 1700 is 3x to 3.5x the price. The Dell is pretty nifty in that it provides for split-screen and P.I.P. and DVI and component and s-video and composite, plus it's got memory card readers for all the major formats... I mean, it's a fantastic tool. It's just not necessarily the ideal video production monitor. It's not bad, it's just not necessarily ideal.

But on a bang-for-the-buck basis it's hard to beat.
Click to expand...
 
Split-screen's in the menus, so's P-I-P; it's of somewhat limited value because you only have one input of each type, so you can't send two component signals in and side-by-side them, only one.

I'd imagine a large Matthews c-stand platform would work for it; the footprint of the stand is about a foot wide by maybe 8" deep (wild guess). For power? Where there's AC there's a way, right? I don't know if it has any sort of DC input, you could maybe run it off an inverter but it'd probably have to be a pretty decent caliber inverter.
 
I'm using this monitor right now. It's great! It comes out of the box way to bright for me, bit easily callibrated. I actually like it better than the apple cinema displays we use at school. OF course, for 2 grand , the dell 30" is out now... I want one!
 
Barry,

Thanks so much for all your info. I tell ya, I got to mess around with the HVX on Wednesday and I had dreams about it. It was also so plenstly fat and chunky.. reminded me of the Arri BL my roomate had in school. I'm personally not mad about any delays... I have more time to sell Plasma to raise the cash...


Once again your info and insight is appreciate.


Justyn
 
With the 30 inch and a G5, do you need the higher end graphics card like you do on the cinema display? I am probably gonna get the 24 inch and this 30 later in the year.. but that one will have to sit like a good little monitor in the studio. Lugging that wouldn't be fun i'm sure.... As was as the sony CRT I really liked for price and picture, but at 45 pounds... no field monitor there..


Barry, any plans to test out that Marshall camera mount LCD that looks pretty sweet for the cash?



J
 
FWIW, just noted that Dell has another sale on 2405FPW. $879 shipped. Search for item 24053YR on Dell site. I have no idea how long this price is valid.

Ned Soltz
 
I'd just like to note that the new 30" Dell doesn't have any video inputs, as reported by HDForIndies.com. So it won't be usable as a camera monitor, only through DVI.
 
Barry_Green said:
As a video monitor -- well, there's nothing wrong with it, it's just not a BT-LH1700W, you know?
Click to expand...
Actually, I'm completely baffled as to why the BT-LH1700W costs so much. I will state up front that monitors are probably the one item in the chain that I understand technically the least, but after doing research on something to use in the field for the HVX, I'm left scratching my head.

The BT-LH1700W is an LCD monitor, which means it's not going to look as nice as a CRT. It's natively 1280x768, so it's got to down-res to display 1080 footage, and isn't going to show you the resolution the camera is capable of. And it's 17". For all that, it costs $3,400.

The Dell is 24", it's natively 1920x1200, and it's under $900. What on earth gives?

(I realize the Panny has more professional connectors and a waveform monitor... but is that worth $2,300?)

Obviously there's something I'm missing... please, tell me how this stuff works.

Barry_Green said:
It does a fairly lousy job of scaling up SD, although its HD looks pretty good.
Click to expand...
Well, I'm looking for something to monitor the HVX with on set (I'm really concerned about focus with the camera, and the director needs a monitor anyway), so I'm primarily going to be shooting HD-only. That being said, I may very well shoot 720pN most of the time, since that's where the variable framerates are and I get more recording time out of it. However, if the output of the camera is 720p and displayed on this monitor, it's going to have to be uprezzed too, right? Is there an option to just display the footage in its native size in the middle of the screen so there's no conversion going on (unlike most people, I could care less if it's filling the screen; I want as accurate a picture as possible)? I think I read somewhere that the analog component output of the camera can be cross-converted to 1080 while shooting in 720; is that also "uprezzing" on the fly? What's the difference in quality between outputting at the same resolution you're shooting or the higher one? Am I better off cross-converting in the camera or on the monitor?

Barry_Green said:
The picture appears to be a little overscanned; the viewfinder and the captured frame do not line up with what the monitor displays. It's close, but not exact.
Click to expand...
I'm curious, if the display is natively 1920x1200 and the max output of the camera is 1920x1080, then wouldn't that mean there's extra space on the monitor horizontally? And if so, how could there be overscanning taking place? If there's extra space, is the picture letterboxxed on the top and the bottom, or is the picture "zoomed in" to fill the screen, and thereby cutting off part of the side to achieve a picture that uses every pixel on the monitor? I'm most concerned above all that the picture I'm seeing is as close to accurate in a pixel-for-pixel ratio from the camera than anything else. I'd like the monitor to be functional in this way for both 720 and 1080 modes, and I'm trying to learn if this is even possible. If not, is there a "native 720" monitor to use in the field that also has component inputs for use with the HVX?

Sorry for the hoards of questions... there are a lot of confusing variables with these monitors and I want to make sure I'm getting what I want before plunking down another grand for it. Since there seem to be a lot of people on this forum with this specific monitor (and people who use them in a production environment as well), I figure this is the best place to get the information. Frankly, size doesn't matter that much to me. Anything 17" and up is fine. I don't need a 42" monitor on set to judge the picture. But I do want something that's as accurate as possible to judge focus and does as little conversion as possible to give the best quality that is obtainable from the camera in a LIVE workflow. I don't have 3 grand to blow, so something like the BT-LH1700W is totally out of the picture (though I'd want a 1080 display anyway). Thanks in advance for your replies.
 
I am definitely confused about this whole monitoring thing.

One thing I have not read much (if anything about) on this forum is the use of an LCD projector for postproduction monitoring (including color correction). There are several 720p Native projectors out there now for street prices around $2300. Panasonic makes one that has received overall good reviews, especially for its “color accuracy and saturation”. Link to review follows:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ae900.htm

Is there some compelling reason not to monitor 720p material on an LCD projector? I mean 100” diagonal as appose to 17”? Understandably not everyone would have the space for a 100” screen, but if you do… why not?

Also, what exactly makes a monitor HD ready? I have a Mitsubishi CRT computer monitor from about 4 or 5 years ago that supports resolutions at least up to 1920 x 1080. Why is it unsuitable for HD monitoring? Is it in color accuracy? Is there something about “HD ready” CRT/LCD’s that makes their color reproduction more accurate?

And hey, since I’m on it… what exactly differentiates a “Professional” monitor from one for computer use? Are HDTV’s good enough to monitor on? If they are what makes them any different from all the other technologies?

Sorry for all the questions but after long searching on this subject I’m finding any type of definitive answer on this subject elusive and I’m just trying to get a grasp on all this.

Thanks for any info you might have-

Trane
 
Haakon said:
Actually, I'm completely baffled as to why the BT-LH1700W costs so much.
Click to expand...
Well, on the contrary, it costs about $2,000 less than the competitive Sony. Things like HD-SDI and the like drive up the cost.

The BT-LH1700W is an LCD monitor, which means it's not going to look as nice as a CRT.
Click to expand...
Well, "nice" is probably true, but it'll probably look a lot more accurate. CRTs are very gentle on your footage, and show it in its best light -- but they do not show it accurately. CRTs hide a multitude of sins. If you want a client monitor for a client to be happy, a CRT's a good choice for that (even though they're nearly extinct in the high-def world). But if you want something that'll show you what your footage really looks like, an LCD will come a lot closer.

It's natively 1280x768, so it's got to down-res to display 1080 footage, and isn't going to show you the resolution the camera is capable of.
Click to expand...
Well, yes. And that's disappointing, obviously I'd rather it be a native 1080p panel, but there are very few of those in existence.
And it's 17". For all that, it costs $3,400.
Click to expand...
Yes, but -- compare a 9" CRT monitor of any quality (like the Sony 9L3) and it's $1,000. A 9" CRT consumer TV might be $49. There's a difference. And it's not really $3400, it's more like $2700 street.

The Dell is 24", it's natively 1920x1200, and it's under $900. What on earth gives?
Click to expand...
The Panasonic is a video monitor designed to show the video gamut of high def, it offers HD-SDI input, it offers 709 colorspace, it offers a built-in waveform monitor, all sorts of things.

The Dell is a computer monitor. Does a good job for a computer monitor, and it does a pretty good job of a high-def video monitor too. For the price, if price is a concern, the Dell's the much better bang for the buck. But it's not a dedicated professional high-def LCD video monitor.

However, if the output of the camera is 720p and displayed on this monitor, it's going to have to be uprezzed too, right?
Click to expand...
Sort of. You won't ever see the pixel-for-pixel display on the Dell (or, well, frankly, any monitor). You're going to see the analog output converted back to digital (so D-to-A-to-D). As part of that initial conversion the upconvert from subsampled 960 up to full-rez 1280 is going to take place, then that will be converted to analog. So if you want to see pixel-for-pixel-accuracy, the only way to get there would be through the firewire and an NLE.
Is there an option to just display the footage in its native size in the middle of the screen so there's no conversion going on (unlike most people, I could care less if it's filling the screen; I want as accurate a picture as possible)?
Click to expand...
Yes, the Dell has the option of displaying it in 1:1 size, so it would become effectively about a 15" monitor with a basically-native-res image. But again, it's going to be an analog image that it samples and converts to digital to display.

I think I read somewhere that the analog component output of the camera can be cross-converted to 1080 while shooting in 720; is that also "uprezzing" on the fly?
Click to expand...
Yes you can do that too. And yes there'd be some uprezzing involved somehow.

What's the difference in quality between outputting at the same resolution you're shooting or the higher one? Am I better off cross-converting in the camera or on the monitor?
Click to expand...
Don't know, I'd have to try it. I would suspect the camera would do a better job, since the scaler in the monitor doesn't appear to be the best. 720p displayed full-screen looks pretty good, but 480p scaled up looks dreadful.

I'm curious, if the display is natively 1920x1200 and the max output of the camera is 1920x1080, then wouldn't that mean there's extra space on the monitor horizontally?
Click to expand...
Extra space vertically. 60 pixels top and bottom.
And if so, how could there be overscanning taking place?
Click to expand...
Because it's not a digital signal, it's an analog signal, and so in the D-to-A process there's a possibility that the analog scanning is not 100% accurate, or it's possible that in the digital capture of that analog scan it's not doing it 100% accurate.

There is no digital connection between the camera and the monitor. On the Panasonic, there is the possibility of a direct digital connection, HD-SDI. But without HD-SDI output from the HVX, it's pretty much irrelevant.

If there's extra space, is the picture letterboxxed on the top and the bottom, or is the picture "zoomed in" to fill the screen, and thereby cutting off part of the side to achieve a picture that uses every pixel on the monitor?
Click to expand...
Your choice. It can display it in the proper aspect ratio, leaving thin letterbox bars, or it can zoom in (but it doesn't zoom the sides off, it just vertically stretches it to fit).

I'm most concerned above all that the picture I'm seeing is as close to accurate in a pixel-for-pixel ratio from the camera than anything else.
Click to expand...
Then what you really, really want is Serious Magic HD Rack. Too bad it doesn't exist yet! :angry: That's the only way you're going to see the actual pixels. Well, that or an NLE. Firewire is the only digital output, and the only way you're going to get pixel information.

I'd like the monitor to be functional in this way for both 720 and 1080 modes, and I'm trying to learn if this is even possible.
Click to expand...
Yes it can pretty much do that, within the restriction that you're not transferring pixels over! You're transferring an analog conversion of the pixels.

If not, is there a "native 720" monitor to use in the field that also has component inputs for use with the HVX?
Click to expand...
I'm sure there are many. But none will offer a digital pixel transfer. It's always analog.
 
Barry,

Some great info there. I was curious about some of that. I've decided on getting the dell this month. Has anyone bought one from Ebay? Seems a bit cheaper there than on the dell site?

Also, I know this is a weird question, but do you think it's easy enough to rip off or take off the Dell logo on the front? Part of what I'm going to shoot will involve a monitor as well. I could stick some gaff over it, but I'd like to take it off and put the logo of the show on the monitor. Besides, being a Mac guy kind of want to keep the monitor a secret... SSSSHHHH.


Thanks again. I do think this is the best value right now. I need both a computer monitor and a field monitor. This thing will do the trick. I did also check and as Barry suggested, Mathews has a C-stand adapter plate that will work with this. I'm stoked.


J
 
Justyn said:
Besides, being a Mac guy kind of want to keep the monitor a secret... SSSSHHHH.
Click to expand...

for the Mac people - just found this @ HDforidies. you can now connect the HVX to an Apple Cinema Display (20" & 23")...

http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/01/07/gefen.hd.connectivity/

"The new HD-Mate acts as the interface between multiple HDTV sources and an Apple Cinema Display. It supports high definition resolutions up to 1920x1080i and comes equipped with one DVI and two component inputs that connect satellite television systems, camcorders, DVD players and gaming systems such as the Xbox 360. A total of three HD sources can be connected at the same time using the HD-Mate, which allows the user to easily switch between sources using a simple push-button menu on the unit itself. It features intuitive on-screen menu pages, accessible through the menu buttons on the HD-Mate unit, to offer image adjustments to accommodate different view outputs and screen sizes.
In addition, the HD-Mate enables the 20- and 23-inch Apple Cinema Displays to function with full HDTV capability, displaying HD images with uncompromised quality and resolution. A model supporting the 30-inch Cinema Displays is already in development. The HD-Mate is expected to ship later this month for $300."

looks interesting...
 
Danny,

Will it only work with cinema displays or any DVI or component monitor like this dell. I think looks cool but not if it only works with apple monitors.


J
 
Justyn said:
Danny,

Will it only work with cinema displays or any DVI or component monitor like this dell. I think looks cool but not if it only works with apple monitors.


J
Click to expand...

don't know that... i went to Gefen's site but it is not listed there. the article was at a mac site (MacNN) and only says Apple Cinema Displays, but isn't DVI just DVI? i mean, a standard/universal connection? if i had to guess i would think so...
 
Danny,

I bet we'll find out soon enough. For those interested, I just found out a cheap way to build a monitor plate for a C-stand. It just takes 3 parts. First is a custom built platform that is slightly larger than the footprint of the LCD and it should have a lip on it for slippage.. and possibly a bungy system just to make sure. This platform is then screwed into a 6 inch baby stud grip equipment.. which then slides into a standard grip head. Asides from the grip head which I already have, this shouldn't cost me more than 25 bucks for a good stable monitor stand. I might do this on a moving dolly at somepoint as well.. or just use a magliner.


J
 
Does anyone know how to play DVD's from a stand alone player like the samung into the DVI input without the coyp right protection preventing from doing so. I'm using the Samsung DVD-HD841 with dvi out.

thanks
 
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