HVX LCD screen not up to par?

B

Brian Petersen

Well-known member
Went to DVExpo today and I'm really excited about the camera. They did have footage playing on a larger plasma screen and it looked great.

The ONE thing that I wasn't too impressed with was the LCD. I'm fine with the fact that it's 4:3 and the info is in the black. That's kind of nice. But I just didn't think it had that great of resolution. It wasn't too easy to see exactly where the focus was. Even with focus assist.

I guess I was a little disappointed because the day before I was using the Sony FX1 and I thought the LCD was big and great and I could tell focus well (and I thought their "focus assist" feature was a little nicer).

Other than that I'm really excited about the camera. But did anyone else have the same feeling on the LCD?
 
Being in Europe we have had no chance to even have a look at the HVX, but I am an owner of the FX1 and the LCD screen is simply fantastic. And it's 16:9.

If the HVX LCD isn't as good, that will be a quite a big let down. And if it's only 4:3 that will be disgraceful.
 
It is 4:3 which sounds odd, but it's actually alright because all the display info gets put into the black bars on the top and bottom so you can see all of the image. Fine. BUT, because of that, the image itself is a bit smaller than I would like. Doesn't seem to have the size or resolution of the FX1. The FX1 seemed much easier to follow focus.

It's really the ONLY thing that makes me sad about this camera. Other than that it's hard to sleep at night because I get so excited about getting one of these bad boys.
 
Well with all the planning involved in this camera, why didn't Panasonic put a 16:9 high res LCD on it? Makes no sense at all.

Focussing in HD is even more crucial than SD. I am very comfortable wth the FX1, but even after a year using it I occassionally slightly miss focus, even using the focus assist.

For all the rapturous response from the recent footage being shown online, there are still some serious reservations I have about the HVX20.

Hopefully the delay in bringing out the PAL version will help in ironing out some of these problems. Well at least I can hope.
 
I think the 4:3 lcd makes perfect sense. you get a true 16:9 letterbox and all the display info gets put in the black bars. No clutter on the image. Fantastic! Props panny!!
 
I like the 4:3 with info in the black too. But when you look at the size and resolution of the image on the HVX LCD compared to the size and resolution of the image on the FX1 LCD, the FX1 seems much nicer. And a lot easier to see focus problems, which is critical in HD.
 
I would think after using the camera a bit, we could prob get the "feel" of the viewfinder...for run and gun type shooting.
But for most of my work, I'll still use a real monitor off the D4..so I guess I'm not too worried about it.
 
The screen is taller, so the data displays don't have to be overlayed on, and clutter up the image. I think it's good user design because it really bugs me to have a bunch of data cluttering up the image. In my brief time with the HVX, I thought the focus assist worked really well and was easy to use. The LCD screen is fine for what it is--obviously it isn't a production monitor.
 
Brian Petersen said:
Doesn't seem to have the size or resolution of the FX1.
Click to expand...
Probably not.

The FX1 seemed much easier to follow focus.
Click to expand...
Highly, highly disagree. The HVX is the only low-cost HD camera where you actually CAN follow focus. The HVX's focus assist feature allows you to frame your shot and be used while recording, in all light & contrast conditions. The FX1 doesn't allow focus assist while recording, so once you hit the "record" button, you're on your own, and the resolution of the FX1's LCD, (while being higher than the HVX's), is nowhere near enough to accurately focus with. The image is scaled down at a rate of something like 5 to 1 on that LCD.

The HVX lets you keep the focus assist active while recording, so you can easily spot-check focus. And because it's a small window, you can see the rest of your frame and have a decent shot at following an actor's path through the shot, etc.
 
Steve Shovlar said:
Well with all the planning involved in this camera, why didn't Panasonic put a 16:9 high res LCD on it? Makes no sense at all.
Click to expand...
Makes perfect sense. Use it, and you'll see -- on the FX1, all the information (timecode, white balance, audio meters) all cover up your picture. On the HVX, all that stuff gets shoved into the black bars, so the full image is always visible. It's a better choice.

Focussing in HD is even more crucial than SD.
Click to expand...
Agreed. And we didn't have any sort of monitor when we shot the footage that was shown at DV Expo. We relied solely on the HVX's LCD with focus assist, and I am confident in saying that we absolutely nailed the focus on every shot. The HVX's focus system is better than all the other low-cost HD cameras.
 
Brian Petersen said:
But when you look at the size and resolution of the image on the HVX LCD compared to the size and resolution of the image on the FX1 LCD, the FX1 seems much nicer. And a lot easier to see focus problems, which is critical in HD.
Click to expand...
No doubt higher resolution is better, obviously. But the FX1 may be luring you into a false sense of security. Yes its LCD is higher res than the HVX's, but it's not anywhere near high-enough res to make it accurate. The truth is you can't accurately focus a 1.5 million pixel image on a 230,000 pixel display no matter how hard you try. And you can't accurately focus a 1.5 million pixel image on a 180,000 pixel display either. Neither one can be fully trusted. So you have to (and I underline HAVE TO) use the focus assist. And only the HVX's lets you see a pixel-accurate (or what appears to be pixel-accurate) image while recording.
 
Barry_S said:
I think it's good user design because it really bugs me to have a bunch of data cluttering up the image.
Click to expand...
Did you try the MODE CHK button? One button press erases all the displays. Press it again and it brings it all back. Hold it down and it shows even more info. So with one button press you have a clutter-free display! This is a nice little feature, and the 100B has it as well.
 
Steve Shovlar said:
Well with all the planning involved in this camera, why didn't Panasonic put a 16:9 high res LCD on it? Makes no sense at all.
QUOTE]

Actually if you knew the full operation of the camera you would know that in the thumbnail mode it is 4:3 display. And then Barry told you how we took advantage of the opportunity. One additional benefit, and no one has mentioned it, probably cause no one has recorded 4:3 video and that is you have a full size screen for that option.

Best,

Jan
Click to expand...
 
Yes.. The Focus assist on the HVX works very good.. fantastic. When we had the 3 cameras (Sony, JVC, HVX) side by side to shoot, we learned very quickly which focus system was good and which wasnt. The Sony one is just junk.. We never were to sure if we were locked on, and in dark situations it was almost imposible, The JVC focus assist was actually pretty cool, but really only at the long end of the lens, and the HVX "critical focus" method was the best.. we never shot a soft shot.

So yes.. the monitor is a little low res.. but it does the job very well. I think alot of people are going to be using external monitors to shoot HD anyways (you really should, and most DP's would refuse not to) so it shouldn't be a concern. That little 17" panasonic we used was incredible... portable, blue gun and scope with side by side grabs compare in one little package.
 
Just to clear something up for myself and maybe some others...The focus assist that we talk about on the HVX is entirely different from a system that, I believe, has the same name on the DVX. If I understand correctly the DVX's focus assist is psuedo-AF in progressive modes and the HVX's is a pixel for pixel display window to make focusing by eye easier, no? Thanks for the responses.
Peace,

-Harry
 
yes you are correct.. the HVX uses a blow up of the middle image.. like the Panasonic Digital Still cameras use. It blows up the middle of the image to a pixel accurate live image for focus. It is much like critical focusing, where you zoom in, focus, then zoom out.. except you dont need to now change your lens size, and back focus errors wont screw you up.
 
Harry, you are correct. There are two phrases we DVXUsers are going to have to adjust to: "Focus Assist" and "24PN".

On the DVX, "Focus Assist" was used to describe the autofocus system when in progressive scan. On the HVX, "Focus Assist" refers to the pop-up zoomed-in pixel-accurate (I think) window that shows up on the LCD.

On the DVX, we used the term 24PN to differentiate from 24PA (i.e., "24P Normal" vs. "24P Advanced"). On the HVX, they use 24PN to denote 24P Native mode. 24PN on the HVX doesn't actually have pulldown at all, because it's native frames in the 720p mode.

So we'll have to change our terminology for the DVX -- maybe call it "24PR" for "regular"?
 
Ahhhhh...my brain's gonna explode!!! Na, not really. I think I can get used to those two. Thanks Jarred and Barry for the explanation. Take it easy.
Peace,

-Harry
 
Dont worry.. it was pretty confusing to me until I actually played with it.. you understand it immediately when you see it then you never screw them up again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top