HVX 720p24p non HD? Is this right?

[Kholi]

Will the HVX record to tape or straight to DV compression if capturing to Hard-Drive in 720p24p?

I'm asking because I'd rather use it for the increased resolution if this is possible. DVX is like 480p24p and after watching November and Broken on monitors and televisions of different walks, I'm thinking I'd rather shell out the money for a higher resolution for my short.

Is this possible? I'm guessing it'd be like working with the DVX, just at a higher SD resolution.

 

[Barry_Green]

DV is standard-def. If you put an HVX in DV mode, you'll record DV like the DVX would.

You would only get increased resolution if you recorded in high-def mode. You can record any mode it shoots in, through firewire direct to a computer, if you have an appropriate capture application on the computer. You cannot record directly to a hard disk (unless it's a special-purpose hard disk like the CinePorter or FireStore).

So -- I don't think I'm sure what you're asking.

 

[Kholi]

DV is standard-def. If you put an HVX in DV mode, you'll record DV like the DVX would.

You would only get increased resolution if you recorded in high-def mode. You can record any mode it shoots in, through firewire direct to a computer, if you have an appropriate capture application on the computer. You cannot record directly to a hard disk (unless it's a special-purpose hard disk like the CinePorter or FireStore).

So -- I don't think I'm sure what you're asking.

Sorry, Barry---

What I'm asking is: can I use 720p if I don't capture to a HD format? Like capturing exactly how a DVX would, but with a higher resolution like 720p?

And Final Cut HD should capture the HVX's hi-def footage, correct?

What I'm trying to avoid is editing HD, I guess. I know less about that than I do about editing DV footage.

I plan on capturing straight to one of four lacie drives for my short film, and I really want high-res footage, but I'm afraid of HD basically.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

Scan I use 720p if I don't capture to a HD format? Like capturing exactly how a DVX would, but with a higher resolution like 720p?

Your question doesn't make much sense -

Anything higher resolution than DV (720 x 480) is generally considered to be HD.
720P is an HD format.

And Final Cut HD should capture the HVX's hi-def footage, correct?

Yes, FCP will recognize the footage from the HVX, shouldn't be a problem at all.

What I'm trying to avoid is editing HD, I guess. I know less about that than I do about editing DV footage.

As long as you have a decent computer you should be fine.
From teh editing side of things, it's not all that different.
You may not be able to view your stuff on an external monitor - but that's really about it. Just make sure you set your sequence to the right preset (in this case DVCProHD 720P 23.98) and you'll be fine.

As far as your operation of FCP goes, it exactly the same as when your'e editing DV.
So don't worry too much about it.

 

[Kholi]

I thought I read somewhere (and I probably misinterpreted this) that you can record 720p24p and use the footage as non-HD? Something like that? Is it downgrading after you capture it?

I need to read more about HD. I've been conditioned to film, so this Digital move is completely new to me. I JUST now got the hang of what the DVX has to offer and the XL2, now I have to get the hang of this HD stuff.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

I thought I read somewhere (and I probably misinterpreted this) that you can record 720p24p and use the footage as non-HD? Something like that? Is it downgrading after you capture it?

You're probably referring to this:
The HVX200 can record 720P onto P2cards and then gives you the option to dub those clips to DV tape. But when you do that, you're just downconverting your HD clips into an SD codec (meaning you are taking your 720P HD clips and just turning them into 480/DV clips).

The quality winds up the same - the added advantage with this mode is that you could shoot slow motion clips in 720P and then dub them to DV for silky smooth DV slo-mo.

Aside from dubbing the footage in camera - you could always downcovert HD footage in post at some point (in the computer).


If you're on the Mac (using FCP) you might want to take a look at Mike Curtis's site www.hdforindies.com

He's got a good FAQ on there about HD editing on the Mac that you might find helpful

EDITED TO ADD:

Here's the direct link to the HD FAQ

 

[Kholi]

You're probably referring to this:
The HVX200 can record 720P onto P2cards and then gives you the option to dub those clips to DV tape. But when you do that, you're just downconverting your HD clips into an SD codec (meaning you are taking your 720P HD clips and just turning them into 480/DV clips).

The quality winds up the same - the added advantage with this mode is that you could shoot slow motion clips in 720P and then dub them to DV for silky smooth DV slo-mo.

Aside from dubbing the footage in camera - you could always downcovert HD footage in post at some point (in the computer).


If you're on the Mac (using FCP) you might want to take a look at Mike Curtis's site www.hdforindies.com

He's got a good FAQ on there about HD editing on the Mac that you might find helpful

EDITED TO ADD:

Here's the direct link to the HD FAQ

That's exactly what I was talking about, Luis.

I guess I might as well go for the HD camera.

As far as editing, I'm going to be using Avid with Adrenaline + Avid hardware on G5 with 16 gigs of memory; two of them.

They're pretty good for editing on a small budget.

As far as the laptop solution or the method of capture, I'm not so sure which laptop I'll use.

Thanks for answering my super unclear question. That came from lack of knowledge on the subject. sorry.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

As far as editing, I'm going to be using Avid with Adrenaline + Avid hardware on G5 with 16 gigs of memory; two of them.

I think you might be okay with that :thumbsup:

That's obviously MORE than enough horsepower for DVCProHD footage.
Keep in mind that DVCProHD can still be carried over a firewire - like DV - so it's not THAT much more intensive to edit (100mb/s vs. 25mb/s).
I"m on a dual 2.7Ghz G5 with 2.5gigs of ram, and I can cut DVCproHD with no problem on this computer. It feels the same as cutting DV....

Thanks for answering my super unclear question. That came from lack of knowledge on the subject. sorry.

No apologies necessary - that's how we clear up questions...by asking
:beer:

Glad I could help.

 

[Kholi]

I think you might be okay with that :thumbsup:

That's obviously MORE than enough horsepower for DVCProHD footage.
Keep in mind that DVCProHD can still be carried over a firewire - like DV - so it's not THAT much more intensive to edit (100mb/s vs. 25mb/s).
I"m on a dual 2.7Ghz G5 with 2.5gigs of ram, and I can cut DVCproHD with no problem on this computer. It feels the same as cutting DV....



No apologies necessary - that's how we clear up questions...by asking
:beer:

Glad I could help.

Man, really? I haven't had any experience with HD footage, but I've seen DVX footage edited on these systems and it's as fluid as it is using Photoshop.

Our G5's are dual's as well, I guess they felt we needed lots of Ram.

I still might use the DVX since it's there, and use the 1k toward the short itself... but after watching Broken and November on the 30inch CinemaHD, and then turning around and viewing SAMPLE footage from the HVX on the SAME screen, even if compressed with the h.264 codec... I just can't get over the massive difference.

Question is, once the footage is ported to DVD and played on a non-HD television, will it still look even half as decent? I'll keep reading to find out.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

Man, really? I haven't had any experience with HD footage, but I've seen DVX footage edited on these systems and it's as fluid as it is using Photoshop.

Well keep in mind we're talking about a specific codec here, DVCProHD.

DVCProHD has a datarate of 100mb/s at the highest (and if you're shooting 720P24 onto P2 cards it's only 40mb/s). The compression on DVCProHD is almost 7:1 - so it's pretty highly compressed.

If we were talking about Sony's HDSR format, or something like uncompressed HD - then it would be a whole different situation - for that kind of stuff you need a throughput of over 200MB/s.

(that's MegaBYTES, not megabits).

So even though it is an HD format, DVCProHD is still very managable.
It can be carried over a standard 1394 firewire cable, and captured onto a single drive.

Question is, once the footage is ported to DVD and played on a non-HD television, will it still look even half as decent? I'll keep reading to find out.

Well, DVD's are still standard definition, so it won't look as crisp as the HD footage looks.

But, I think it might be worth shooting on HD if for no other reason than to have an HD master of your finished piece. At the rate things are going, it shouldn't be too long before we have reasonable options for distributing HD content (like Bluray or HD-DVDs).

 

[Kholi]

Well keep in mind we're talking about a specific codec here, DVCProHD.

DVCProHD has a datarate of 100mb/s at the highest (and if you're shooting 720P24 onto P2 cards it's only 40mb/s). The compression on DVCProHD is almost 7:1 - so it's pretty highly compressed.

If we were talking about Sony's HDSR format, or something like uncompressed HD - then it would be a whole different situation - for that kind of stuff you need a throughput of over 200MB/s.

(that's MegaBYTES, not megabits).

So even though it is an HD format, DVCProHD is still very managable.
It can be carried over a standard 1394 firewire cable, and captured onto a single drive.



Well, DVD's are still standard definition, so it won't look as crisp as the HD footage looks.

But, I think it might be worth shooting on HD if for no other reason than to have an HD master of your finished piece. At the rate things are going, it shouldn't be too long before we have reasonable options for distributing HD content (like Bluray or HD-DVDs).

Excellent. Then that's fine, I'll keep that in mind as well.

I sent you a Pm regarding the p2 card idea, but I can ask here as well for anyone else whom reads and is as ignorant abotu the subject as I am:

I can capture to the choice of laptop (Dell or my new MacBook) without having to use that weird p2 card, correct?

I would rather NOT use that and just send the files to my Externals for later editing.

I have the ability to view through pro monitors as we shoot the footage, so that's not really a problem if you can do that with the HVX. I just don't want to shell out for the p2's if I already have 2 terrabytes to store the footage on.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

I can capture to the choice of laptop (Dell or my new MacBook) without having to use that weird p2 card, correct?

You can capture directly from the camera onto the laptop, yes.
That means that you have to shoot tethered to a laptop of course, but if you're okay with that then it's no problem.

I would tell you to give P2 a chance.
I was really skeptical about the workflow until I shot with a couple of cards.
Ten minutes after shooting I was looking back on tape like we look back on muskets today. It really is fantastic.

 

[Kholi]

I can capture to the choice of laptop (Dell or my new MacBook) without having to use that weird p2 card, correct?

You can capture directly from the camera onto the laptop, yes.
That means that you have to shoot tethered to a laptop of course, but if you're okay with that then it's no problem.

I would tell you to give P2 a chance.
I was really skeptical about the workflow until I shot with a couple of cards.
Ten minutes after shooting I was looking back on tape like we look back on muskets today. It really is fantastic.

LoL. That's one serious analogy, there.

Thanks for all of the links that you've given me. I don't have to really do anything tonight, and I'm taking a break from writing so I'll do some readingon this damned camera.

I'd love to see some actual work that's been ported to DVD from the HVX, so I can compare the quality of that and the DVX to see if it's worth the trouble. SO hard to choose when it's my own money.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

I'll tell you, I don't think you're doing to see a big difference once the stuff is on DVD - but the DVCProHD codec will give you more room to play with in post (in terms of Color Correction and effects) due to it's 4:2:2 color sampling.

I also think it's worth 'future proofing' your projects - so that you can distribute them in HD once that becomes a viable alternative.

Also, you may want to look into the option of shooting DVCPro50 on the HVX if your only distribution method will be DVD, and you don't wind up caring about HD shooting. Just a thought.

Now get to reading!
:thumbsup:

 

[Danilo Del Tufo]

G5 with 16 gigs of memory; two of them.

Eeek! :embarasse
a Quad with 16Gigs of ram is Eur 16.959,00 (20'000 dollars x2= 40.000 dollars!) without monitors!:embarasse
I think to buy a Quad with 8gigs ECC corrected! But 16gigs, man you're going to cut 35mm film scans 4:4:4 for sure with 16gigs ecc corrected, the same perfomance of using a Photoshop and color correct or edit a jpeg file!:grin:
Two of them? Are you the son of George Lucas?
Shot on the Viper If you can afford two of this editing station! Don't buy an Hvx200! Buy a Varicam, trust me! Or save the money for the camera (Varicam) and a Quad with 8 gigs! Don't waste money!
Good luck!

 

[Kholi]

Eeek! :embarasse
a Quad with 16Gigs of ram is Eur 16.959,00 (20'000 dollars x2= 40.000 dollars!) without monitors!:embarasse
I think to buy a Quad with 8gigs ECC corrected! But 16gigs, man you're going to cut 35mm film scans 4:4:4 for sure with 16gigs ecc corrected, the same perfomance of using a Photoshop and color correct or edit a jpeg file!:grin:
Two of them? Are you the son of George Lucas?
Shot on the Viper If you can afford two of this editing station! Don't buy an Hvx200! Buy a Varicam, trust me! Or save the money for the camera (Varicam) and a Quad with 8 gigs! Don't waste money!
Good luck!

Off the top of my head because I don't feel like going into the other room--

G5 1 and 2 : 16gigs DDR, Dual 2.0 Processors, Max storage capacities, Avid with Avid hardware, two editing monitors a piece, one CRT display a piece, and one shared big screen for final output.

G5 3: Same as above aside from monitors. Instead, CinemaHD 30" and CinemaHD 23" for editing.

G5 4: 8gig Dual for image processing (The Graphic Designer uses this one)

G5 5: Shelf G5, Dual 2ghz 1gig DDR2 for Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, etc. This one is the one I use daily. Tiny 20" Cinema Display.

Certainly not the son of George Lucas or I'd be able to afford to use a Varicam for such an insignificant short movie. But I do want to try the HVX200 now that Luis has helped me find so much information. A grand or two to rent won't be so bad, and maybe I can talk someone into just buying one to add to the two DVX100a's.