HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

I support and gracefully respect the will of our free choice. If you want to shoot SUPER 8 and swear that it's the format that best suits your needs then so be it and so it shall be.

One thing I get tired of is having to be sorry or ashamed of or held accountable for loving what I currently have; I'm in that camp, I'm a fan boy, I am not seeing the big picture...

I assure you; when that camera comes out that surpasses my wildest expectations and I just cant live without it? I am all over it (after tense negotiations with my wife of course).

Until then, nothing has surfaced yet that I see better than my DVX100.

This is my opinion and no one else I can speak for. This works for me.
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

[quote author=Jeff_Chandler link=board=sony;num=1106156074;start=45#59 date=01/22/05 at 12:37:01]
I really believe Panasonic is going to get it right. [/quote]
Yes, I hope they gonna do it right this time and going to change the design of this mokeup camcorder. It looks cheapo. The XL2, FX1 and Z1 has a pro look.
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

Mokeup? Makeup? Ketchup? Karaoke? Huh?

The 'look' is the most important factor of all I think.

(Insert that one emoticon we seem to be missing)
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

Well, I for one certainly hope it has a more professional form factor than the "Super 8" mockup that's been shown around!  I don't frequently have clients that object to the shape of the camera, but it has happened, and I've had to go and rent the big cams just to satisfy the client's need to "look" professional (which is, frankly, a legitimate concern on their part, depending on the reason why they object).

If they insist on releasing the goofy Super 8 form factor, I hope they also release a plastic shell that you can snap the camera into to make it look like an ENG cam!  :P
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

I could never understand why Panasonic had to experiment with the sunshader on the DVX. It is just ugly. The first thing I did with my DVX was to change the sunshader. I don't want a 70's look on my next camcorder. The owners wants the quality and a serious look. I guess it gonna cost between 4000 and 6000 so at least they can give it a pro look.
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

For me. that sunshader has always been more of a protection device than an actual sunshader. No matter; it's off now and a Mattebox sits in it's place.
 
[quote author=John HudsoRe: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4

[quote author=John HudsoRe: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4

[quote author=John Hudson link=board=sony;num=1106156074;start=45#58 date=01/22/05 at 12:15:19]

LOL

I see it as the opposite.  I see the DVX is still the king; the XL2 carries a inherent pasty, video image even in their 24p.  These newer  camera's (SONY) are doing nothing to support the indie filmmaker.  
[/quote]
John, you brought up a good point. For many, the DVX is still the best prosumer camera, especially among indies. What I wanted to convey was that there will always be new (and sometimes better) alternatives to existing tools. It's just the nature of the consumer electronics beast.

[quote author=John Hudson link=board=sony;num=1106156074;start=45#58 date=01/22/05 at 12:15:19]
You always do this Ranger; you always get upset at the DVX'ers for loving their camera; there is no myopia here, we know we have a wonderful tool and NOTHING has come onto the market yet that makes me want anything else (Although I have a feeling the next GENE DVX will).
[/quote]
Believe it or not, I don't have anything against DVX'ers loving their camera. That's why this great website exists for others to share ideas and their enthusiasm. In fact, I was a hair-breath away from joining your ranks. In the same train of thought, I'm no Sony dude either. I have on several occasions taken a stand against Sony fanatics propping up the FX1 at the expense of the DVX and other cameras.

Original quote:
"... then well be stuck hearing a few years worth of sour grapes and sweet lemon tales intermingled with weeping and knashing of teeth from the sony camp... again."

If you follow closely the quotes that I have responded to in the past, it's not specifically about the DVX, but rather it's directed to those that spread disinformation or occasionally sneak in a cheap shot toward others that may consider different alternatives.

[quote author=John Hudson link=board=sony;num=1106156074;start=45#58 date=01/22/05 at 12:15:19]
Your just making **** up that holds zero gravity.
[/quote]
Not me John.
000217.jpg

Where does the **** go?
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=sony;num=1106156074;start=45#56 date=01/22/05 at 11:53:44]
(note: Ranger, you posted between when I started typing, so please recognize this post is *not* in any way aimed at you.  You've stated before that you're not concerned about 24p, so the Z1 could be the perfect camera for you.  I'm instead talking to the aspiring filmmakers who crave the 24p "film" look...)[/quote]
Barry, I realized that when your post came so close after mine.

I also realize that your posts are directed to those wanting 24p. In truth, I REALLY wish Sony had included 24p into the FX1/ZI. Instead, they collectively insulted our intelligence with that CineFrame junk. I believe over time, it will become the Achilles Heel of the FX1. God curse the CE giants for their shortsightedness and reluctance to listen to consumers.
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

LOL

Alright; well put. (and consider my initial response as if we just haging and drinking a beer; at least it was intended in that manner). I see your point. I think sometimes, in being a stoked owner of the DVX I assume I am being lumped in..." when I truly am so open-minded.

In fact, I know that day is coming sooner than I think whereas I'm going want to replace my baby; and the only stress in that will be Trade In Value + Difference = Oh ****. My wife is going to ****.

Its all good Ranger.
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

Ranger...all I can say is..f@#cking hilarious! And John, love ya never change.
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

..ranger. you seem to have an issue with what i stated a couple days ago as you keep quoting it. sorry if it irks you to hear someone say something like that, but im referring to something which has already and still does take place. its not a cheap shot . its a characterization of the reaction from many pd150 owners when the dvx100 came out. .. i could say the same about xl1 or other old 60i camera owners as well. im not making it up. you could ask anyone who was actually on the scene at that point in time... which is likely why nobody else has posted an issue with what i said. for those of us that recognize what im talking about, i think weve heard how "24p is a sham, and ont real 24p, and just strobey video .. can be done in post from 60I anyway.., ect. " enough times to laugh about the comment made. im simply implying that such an early purchasing descision during the migration to HD on the prosumer level may result in some of the same sentiments if panasonic releases yet another revolutionary camera. Im certainly not alone in thinking this, and im neither sorry nor ashamed of making a comment about actuall past and present events and implying they could happen again on some similar level. my assesment of the sony cameras is sincere, and i could not care less as to what camera someone else buys. i simply imply that such an early purchase in the shift to HD on the prosumer level could be a regretable one for many people in light of whats to follow shortly. Im sorry if i offended you by the comment, but it seems that you merely were unaware of what it actually meant. .. to that end, i hope ive illuminated the mysteries of the background for such a statement, and that youve come to see the comment for what it really is. a simple reflection on past and lingering current events superimposed against the here and now while implying my disdain for the items which affected me personally.. to be specific: the ludicrous technical comments and "reviews" aimed at the DVX, and baseless and incorrect claims about the performance of the DXV vs the older cameras at that time. nothing more. nothing less.
i have no issue with you , hope weve reached an understanding regarding my comment, and i respectfully digress.
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

[quote author=John Hudson link=board=sony;num=1106156074;start=60#68 date=01/22/05 at 18:05:23]LOL

Alright; well put. (and consider my initial response as if we just haging and drinking a beer; at least it was intended in that manner).  I see your point.  I think sometimes, in being a stoked owner of the DVX I assume I am being lumped in..." when I truly am so open-minded.

In fact, I know that day is coming sooner than I think whereas I'm going want to replace my baby; and the only stress in that will be Trade In Value + Difference = Oh ****.  My wife is going to ****.

Its all good Ranger.[/quote]


I’m never selling or trading in my DVX. It’s the first of its kind, a piece of history. Sure, I’ll buy better cameras latter, but it’s staying with me. Will probably be worth a fortune someday.

(Later on, because of this, someone will say I refuse to "let go" of the DVX because I don't want to admit any camera is better.)
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

wow
for a moment I got like: oh no a serious contender to our baby
(because of the 24p) but I guess not
Pana should either drop the price of their HD cam
or design a new one in the $4,500-$5,000 price range
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

They've announced that they're doing exactly that (designing one in approximately that price range)...

... well, to be clear, they haven't mentioned a price, but they said it would be "priced competitive with the sony", so we can probably assume (there's that word again!) that it'll be in that $4500-$5000 range.
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

[quote author=Ranger link=board=sony;num=1106156074;start=60#67 date=01/22/05 at 18:05:13]
In truth, I REALLY wish Sony had included 24p into the FX1/ZI.  Instead, they collectively insulted our intelligence with that CineFrame junk.  I believe over time, it will become the Achilles Heel of the FX1.  God curse the CE giants for their shortsightedness and reluctance to listen to consumers.[/quote]

No you don't ranger cause then we couldn't have ego bashing debates like these at the DVX User forum.  ;D  (come on guys I'm new... I'm waiting for the rookie treatment)

In all seriousness I wonder sometimes if companies aren't all working together in the background on the stuff cause seriously, if sony would have released 24P in the FX1 and the Z1, it would have smeared the DVX into a clump of mush.  All hardcore DVX users would be comin' up with another reason why it is still better.  (it's cheaper than the Z1... or it has a bigger sunshade...)  I like the panny just as much as the sony but 24P is not as important for doing broadcast which is primarily sony's main focus.  You know sony could have implemented 24P if they wanted to so why they didn't is almost like their way of saying... "Ok Panasonic... let's see if your 24P loyalist stand by you now"... and then they dangle the HDV format infront of everyones face and come up with some cheap fake 24P option... while everyone at sony head quarters waits to see if the Panasonic users and everyone else bites on to the fish hook.  Steve did at MacWorld... I think he is pretty smart guy.  He works with both companies when they do good.  (FCP 24P timeline support and now FX1 HDV support... smart man!)

I'm thinking this, the VX1000 basically pioneered DV as we know it.  The DVX cam out eeeeeeeeeons later with 24P.  During that time... Canon & Sony made a crap load of cash on some new great DV cams (even JVC for crying out loud).  I hope the Panasonic answer is around the corner... like tomorrows corner cause the way technology works at the moment, holding out for "the next DVX" to me is not the smartest idea.   By then the XL4 HDV will be out.

.... the end.

Oh no... here it comes... the rookie bumps... :)
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

holding out for "the next DVX" to me is not the smartest idea. By then the XL4 HDV will be out
Click to expand...

Why not? What's the rush? If Panasonic does what I think they will, it will be well worth the wait. If not, the Sony's will still be available for sale. And in the mean time, I can continue to use my SD cams and continue to make money with them. The idea that's really not smart is jumping in buying new technology (based on hype and "camera fever". Hey, I get it too and have to get someone to talk me down. Why is there no "Electronics Anonymous? ;))before there is a clear-cut direction or definite need (unless you are just getting it for yourself for fun, then go ahead, get what you want ;D). As a business or a film maker you should carefully analyze the offerings and conclude which cam fills your needs and falls within your budget.
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

Exactly my sentiments as well.  If you have a need for the new Z1, a project that would benefit from using it and that you can charge more for, then by all means get it now.  If you don't have any specific need for it, why get it now?  Why not wait at least a couple of months and see if there's any response, so you can then choose from a few different options (or at least know more about what your options will be?)  And, if you do wait a couple of months, even if you end up going with the Z1 after all, you'll likely have saved a few hundred dollars too (the FX1 has already come down $500 in "street price" from the initial release price).

If I had a job where the client requested/specified HD, and was willing to pay more for it, I'd have no hesitation ordering a Z1 today.  But no client has requested HD, not one has specified interest in it, and certainly haven't offered to pay more for it, so I wait.  I have NO DOUBT that I will be adding an HD camera sometime this year or next, but I intend to wait until JVC and Panasonic play their cards before deciding among them.

If you can make money with the camera now, and justify the purchase now, then by all means get it now.  If you're getting it based on speculation, or the idea that you don't want to be "left behind", I think it's probably foolish to just grab at the first HD camera that's released, no matter how good it may be.  Those who bought the JVC HD1 are almost certainly wishing that they could dump it and get at least an FX1.  Will FX1 and Z1 owners feel the same way once JVC and Panasonic respond?  Maybe.  I sure don't want to be in that boat, and if waiting a couple of months for NAB lets me know what the playing field will be, then that's what I'll do.

However, if you can make five grand specifically because you have a Z1 right now, then by all means get it now and get started.  Even if someone introduces the ultimate Z1 killer at NAB, you'll still have your existing Z1 camera paid for and can always sell it on ebay to get the next camera.  And if they don't introduce anything better than the Z1, you'll already have it and it'll be free and clear...
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

Well before I say anything I just want to say while you read my last post think of a happy place.  I mean no disrespect when I said the term "hardcore DVX users"  I just got a bit of a how are you from some members in my lasts posts...  that aside....

I agree with you totally about the hole EA idea... I'm the Video Guy... and I have a problem... the FX1 is im possession... so is the DVX.. so is the GL2... yes... I have a problem.

I see it a bit differently.  I used to agree with the wait and see theory, but the problem with that is you usually can capitalize on new technology and if you ban wagon jump quickly and make the money back sometimes it's not that bad.  Clearly the FX1 and the Z1 are the bandwagon money trains... Like it or not HDV is the new buzz around town... just the same as 24P cam out when Panasonic release this DVX a couple years ago.  The word High Definition now in general is a buzz word (even though a good percentage of people and consumers don't really know what it is).  They are very much the 2 hot features at the moment that distingushes 2 companies apart from each other and creates the dreaded wait and see decision feeling that 90 percent of us business companies/prosumer shooters/hobbiest, etc. are currently experiencing.  None the less... I love it!  I just bought an FX1 a couple months ago and through tackful yet simple adversting of "HD" on your products and services these little gem has paid for itself twice.  (Z1 here I come!)...

Same as when the Panasonic came out.  "Film" like production / fraction of the cost.  24P.. the hot ticket!  At the moment there is no official announcement for a Panasonic counter.  So for now to compare the DVX to the FX1 is silly... they offer 2 different things... they are both great cams in their own right.  But if you go by hype factor at the moment HDV is in the lead... for now.  I you can get one of these cam's... make some cash, then sell or keep them (whatever you decide) they are both good equipment at the right time.  The right time is always now.  There is always a risk usually but the greater the risk usually the great the reward.  When Panasonic counters next year or whenever, (soon I hope) they will have a trademark selling tool (24P, HD DVCPRO... whatever it is) and then jump on the Panasonic money train and ride that too.  Technology is getting cheaper by the second.  In my opinion the waiting game is not nearly as crictical as 5 years ago... and now at the pace that everything evolves at, as soon as Panasonic counters, then it will be Canons turn,... then Jv... (well maybe not JVC  :) ) then Sony again... more cams... better gear... lower prices... it's a win win win for the consumer.

At this price point... for business... everytime is the right time (if you play your cards right).  Glass half full or half empty?  Depends on how you see it.
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

Agreed 100%. If you have a business need for it, get it now and use it and make it pay for itself, and it really, really, really won't matter if a "better" camera comes out a month or two or six from now.

If you don't have a business need for it now, buying now is silly. Just like if you don't have a business need for a work truck or a 12k HMI, why spend that money now? Especially when both Panasonic and JVC have announced that they will be responding...

For business, if you have a need now, now is always the right time.
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

But if you go by hype factor at the moment HDV is in the lead... for now
Click to expand...

Perhaps it's currently in the lead as for as hype goes, but not practically or in reality. The DVX delivers from start to finish what it is advertised to do. The FX1 cannot deliver, because there is no practical means of delivery for most purposes. And, again, that's why there's no rush for jumping into HD. As Barry stated, if you have a client that wants it and you can deliver it in some form that the client can use, go for it. I'm still waiting for my first request for HD. Heck, I'm still waiting for my first request for 16:9. I'm not against HDV (although I'm convinced that it can be done better at this level, hence my desire to see what Panasonic does), it's just that the prudent thing to do is at least wait until NAB and see what all the offerings are, see how it all shakes out,  compare and analyze, then make an intelligent decision based on need rather than lust.
 
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