HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

I'm just saying it because lately my short film (10min) was shown before all films for three days in one of our warsaw cinemas. I've shoot it entirely with xl1s and after transfer on 35mm it really looked good. Much better then on my home projector/tv/monitor etc. of course. But it was that lack of resolution i was missing the most. I could live with colors/motion and everything but the real problem was that when it was stretched onto this big screen it would really look better with couple pixels extra.

Of course when I record it I had no idea that someone will like it so much to show it on a big screen. Otherwise I would ran to shop, got all my money and bought xl2/dvx. This is what I'm trying to do now but i'm just torn between buying SD or investing in HD (camera + some editing system)

Just trying to find a good solution...
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

[quote author=navitas link=board=sony;num=1106156074;start=30#40 date=01/21/05 at 14:14:16]

Just trying to find a good solution...[/quote]

I hear ya. You never know if what you shoot may end up on the screen. If it's a good short, there's a good chance it may get played at a fest. I just don't know that I would shoot with that intent myself.

To each his own opinion for what's best, but I f-ing hate interlaced. I like to do green screen and CG compositing myself and progressive is far more cooperative with edges. In reality, whatever I shoot will probably end up on DVD or stay on my computer. From what I've read here, the FX1 doesn't offer much of an advantage if any for those purposes, as again I HATE interlaced. Believe me I'm not trying to say that the FX1 is **** and not worth it, just that I only see a few realistic uses for it at this point. :)
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

Yeah... I hate to admit it but you're probably right :)

By the way: I just watched new episode of "lost". Man alive this thing's fantastic!!! ;D
Any of you know what they used to shoot it (was it cinealta or something else)?
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=sony;num=1106156074;start=30#36 date=01/21/05 at 12:30:19]I was slapped in the face at how good American Idol looked in HD.
Seriously.  Took my breath away.  I've had my TV for more than three years and I thought the novelty had worn off.
[/quote]

But that was shot with the Varicam 720P.

FWIW,

Jan
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

Jeff, I totally agree with you. All I'm saying is, if the Z1 does what you want, $4900 is an absolute steal when you consider that the next-lowest-priced HD camera is maybe 10x that. Just like the DVX was, before the XL2 and SDX came out -- if you wanted 24P, it was either a $3500 DVX, or a $65,000 VariCam. An unbelievable steal... but only if the product does what you want.
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I agree Barry. I probably should have personalized it and said that for me, and what I'm looking for, I wouldn't pay that price. But if it's really what someone wants, it makes sense. I also want to make it clear that I'm not implying that the Sony cams are crap. I've looked at the FX1 and it's a nice looking cam, and it feels pretty solid.
Also, good points about HD. The funny part is, I saw a demo of HD about 10 years ago, I think it was at Epcot center, and they were showing nature videos, and I thought it impressed for that. But frankly, I don't need to see Law and Order or CSI in HD. And if the day comes that everything is done in HD, I feel sorry for the news anchors. They won't be able to cover-up their imperfections anymore!
I'm looking forward to what Panasonic has up their sleeve.
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

HD will be innevitable in some form, and many more camera's will be produced between now and when HD becomes dominent in American homes
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Exactly. And that's why I'm more interested in what Panny introduces, because if it's as Barry believes it will be (and it makes perfect sense to me), it's worth investing in. I can play around and get familiar with HD, but if it's as slow in coming as I think it will be, I will still be able to make use of the 24p today, so I haven't wasted money investing in something that doesn't benefit me or make money for me today. I don't agree with people who are jumping into HDV saying that they are "future-proofing" themselves (and why worry about it when you can order a cam and have it in a day or two?) by investing in the cam, because as you said, many things will probably come and go before HD is standard. But what Pannasonic introduces could come as close as anything could to future-proofing.
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

..ill jump on that bandwagon jeff.  personally i think that the idea of being "future proof" for digital cinema or videography buy buying an FX or Z1 right now is about as solid of an idea of "future proofing" for automobiles by buying the first model T would have been.

like you said theres no shortage of cars where one couldnt just buy the latest and best one at any  given time should they really need or desire to in the future.    Its not as if we dont want HD. Every videographer and filmmaker wants HD. even if within their vision or line of work they cant fully use its potential.  but its about more than simply having HD resolution. and there are much more important things to consider when deciding to upgrade cameras than simply getting HD res.  if webcams shot in HD i wouldnt be clamoring to upgrade my DVX to a new webcam to make films or videos with.  why not go and get in a model T and try to win the indianapolis 500 against F1s... hey, they both run on gas right?  so whats the difference?  of course there are those that just dont need or care about the features and standards i personally have , and could care less about the things i consider "setbacks" because the camera works fine for them.. and thats great if they like it. i like the camera too,  just not enough to choose it to be the one ill be using the next few years.

im sure HD wil be the future, and is growing right now, for me im lookng at HD for theatrical projection anyway so its very usefull today already.  but if im going to be getting a new camera. its going to be one that fits my needs, the sonys just do not.. they are great cameras... i just have greater expectations is all. call me a snob, or call me an educated consumer that knows what he wants and needs to make the purchase worth it and un complicated or shortsighted for my own personal needs.
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

I'm just absolutely convinced that anyone buying an FX1 or Z1 right now for "film work" is going to feel just like all those guys who bought VX2000's and PD150's right before the DVX came out...
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

..right on. then well be stuck hearing a few years worth of sour grapes and sweet lemon tales intermingled with weeping and knashing of teeth from the sony camp... again.
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=sony;num=1106156074;start=45#48 date=01/22/05 at 08:42:07]I'm just absolutely convinced that anyone buying an FX1 or Z1 right now for "film work" is going to feel just like all those guys who bought VX2000's and PD150's right before the DVX came out...[/quote]

Maybe the Z1 will be better,,,I don't know. Like I've said I just want real 16:9. My funds are limited and I don't have the money for adapters and computer software to do alot in post. So what are my other choices with the DVX?

I'd think if Panasonic is really listening to what people want they would come out with 16:9 on a DVX. Canon did. Sony did and Panasonic will to,,,,but when?
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

theyve already annouced they are releassing an HD  mpg2 camera (NOT HDV) in 2005 and a DVCpro HD camera in 2006 at the pricepoint.  ..HD is 16:9 .  
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

When? Do you think it will be along the lines of the DVX100 but with HD and SD?
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

that is my precise line of thinking. should have some other new tasty cookies in the jar as well..

i cant remember excactly what was said about what quarter or specific time release was being aimed at. just run a search here..
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

[quote author=Neil R. link=board=sony;num=1106156074;start=45#49 date=01/22/05 at 08:56:09]..right on.     then well be stuck hearing a few years worth of  sour grapes and sweet lemon tales intermingled with weeping and knashing of teeth from the sony camp... again.[/quote]
Kind of like what is currently going on here with the Panasonic camp … again.

The only camp I belong to is Camp Red Cloud here in the Republic of Korea. Currently, I still don’t own a video camera and historically I’ve never really cared for Sony products, but despite all that I still can smell bullshit when I’m near it.

All this talk sounds like some DVX support group.
im29a.jpg

Moderator: "Stand up brother Wang and tell us why you hate the FX1 so much?"
Wang: "Hello DVXers, my name Wang Chun and I'm a DVX user for 18 months, two days and 14 hours."
Group: "Hi Wang!"
Wang: "Well anyway, I wanted to confess that last week I played around with the FX1 at CES."
Group: "Oooohh! Say it isn't so Wang?"
Wang "Yes, it's true. I fell in lust with the Sony camera until I realized that it didn't have 24p. Sure, it had 16x9 chips, a beautiful image and full manual controls, but what are those without 24p? I mean, what were they thinking?"
John Hudson: "24p or die man, 24p or die!"
Wang: "I feel so ashamed."

Six months ago the DVX was the reigning king of prosumer camcorders, then in September Canon launched the XL2. Soon after that, Sony slid in a sneaky uppercut and stole Canon’s short-lived thunder with the release of the FX1. No doubt, in six months time Panasonic will probably launch their own prosumer HD-camcorder and capitalize on the shortcomings of the FX1, which in turn will be followed soon after by some JVC incarnation.

The point is; when does it stop? There will always be that Holy Grail of camcorders right around the corner.

For me, I probably will get the Z1, but I won’t be gnashing any teeth when the latest product comes to market. In fact I encourage its release. In a free-market society, a little competition is a healthy thing. As consumers, I totally support forcing the Sony’s, Canon’s, and the Matsushita’s of the world to give us what “WE” desire versus them ramming junk down our throat and then telling us that we should like it. For now, after 18 months of research, I have determined that the Z1 fits best the parameters I have established. If later Panasonic (or whoever) comes out with something better, then I will be standing in line with the rest of y’all waiting for it to hit the store shelves.

So what camp do I belong to? The consumer camp.
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

theyve already annouced they are releassing an HD  mpg2 camera (NOT HDV) in 2005 and a DVCpro HD camera in 2006 at the pricepoint.
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I doubt they'll do an MPEG-2 version.  They had originally announced that, but it makes no sense now -- if anyone was going to do MPEG-2, why not just go HDV and be compatibe?  I wouldn't expect to see any MPEG-2 camera coming from Panasonic, I bet they'll skip right to the DVCPRO-HD.  It just seems too coincidental that they went and lined up both FCP-HD and Avid Express HD NOW... I can't believe they'd then turn around and wait a year and a half to introduce a camera for the format...

If you NEED native 16:9 and 24p and HD, no such product exists short of the $65,000 VariCam.  So you have to pick two of the three, or take the third option: wait and see what Panasonic and JVC do.  But if you need 24p and 16:9, the XL2 is available now and is an excellent choice.  If you need HD and 16:9, the FX1 is available now and the Z1 will be soon, both should be very nice cameras, as long as you're fine with the interlaced look.

But for the aspiring indie filmmaker, I pose the question again:

Why spend a bunch of money you don't have, on a camera that doesn't do what you want, just to get a feature (HD resolution) that you don't *need*?

Especially when Panasonic and JVC have both announced their intention to deliver HD 720/24p soon.

Makes no sense.

But, hey, for interlaced work the Z1 delivers a jaw-droppingly good picture for the price point.  It's a good camera.  Just not what the indie filmmaking crowd is waiting for, that's all.

(note: Ranger, you posted between when I started typing, so please recognize this post is *not* in any way aimed at you. You've stated before that you're not concerned about 24p, so the Z1 could be the perfect camera for you. I'm instead talking to the aspiring filmmakers who crave the 24p "film" look...)
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=sony;num=1106156074;start=45#56 date=01/22/05 at 11:53:44]
I doubt they'll do an MPEG-2 version.  They had originally announced that, but it makes no sense now -- if anyone was going to do MPEG-2, why not just go HDV and be compatibe?  I wouldn't expect to see any MPEG-2 camera coming from Panasonic, I bet they'll skip right to the DVCPRO-HD. [/quote]



I SOOO hope your right on this, i wasnt all too thrilled with the timeline for the releases in that announcement either. I kind of shook my head, and for a very breif moment i was dissappointed at the amount of time i would have to still be limited to using my DVX.. :o Ive already got the moolah set aside for the new pani cam of choice when its released and i didnt intend on going with the purported troublesome mpg2 one, but intended to wait for the dvcpro hd. If they slide right passed the whole mess of mpg2 straight to DVCPro HD il be one happy camper, and ill have one sitting i my hand asap.
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

[quote author=Ranger link=board=sony;num=1106156074;start=45#55 date=01/22/05 at 11:49:52]
Kind of like what is currently going on here with the Panasonic camp ….. again. All this talk sounds like some DVX support group..... Six months ago the DVX was the reigning king of prosumer camcorders,[/quote]

LOL

No way dude. That is one hilarious sound bite. I see it as the opposite. I see the DVX is still the king; the XL2 carries a inherent pasty, video image even in their 24p. These newer camera's (SONY) are doing nothing to support the indie filmmaker.

You always do this Ranger; you always get upset at the DVX'ers for loving their camera; there is no myopia here, we know we have a wonderful tool and NOTHING has come onto the market yet that makes me want anything else (Although I have a feeling the next GENE DVX will).

Your just making **** up that holds zero gravity.
 
Re: HVR-ZIU - B&H - $4,900

Kind of like what is currently going on here with the Panasonic camp
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Personally, I don't really fit into that camp, because I don't own a Panasonic camera, and have never owned a Panasonic cam. I've come here because I'm interested in 24p, 16:9, and HD, and I believe this forum offers more info, and more accurate info, than other forums, and it discusses the issues in a comfortable atmosphere. I currently own 2 Sony's, a Canon and a JVC. But as a consumer, I don't believe that the Sony's offer anything for me currently, and I'm not convince that HDV will ultimately be the "consumer" flavor of HD (I'm hoping not, because I don't think it's the best that can be offered). That's not to say that these cameras are bad or have nothing to offer, just not for me and many others. I really believe Panasonic is going to get it right. And when they do, I'll be the proud owner of my first Panasonic cam. If not, I'll buy a DVX. And then I guess I'll be a part of the Panasonic camp ;D
 
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