So the HV20 records in "true 24p" with advanced pulldown. That means my raw HDV (.m2t) files are interlaced. But removing the pulldown to return the footage to progressive footage seems to be a HUGE headache, and cannot be accomplished using Avid alone (I can't even capture from my HV20 and have to use HDVSplit). There are other workarounds with (free) third party applications, but it's a bit involved and full of potential headaches. So I'm wondering if there are really any serious drawbacks to working in a 1080i/59.94 HDV timeline? The original footage was captured in 24fps, so it has a filmic motion quality. Do I care if it's interlaced at this point? I don't see any interlacing in Avid or on the DVDs I've made from the footage. Does the footage being interlaced impact my effects work or anything? I just can't see the difference between this 1080i footage and progressive footage with my naked eye, so I'm wondering what the big deal is.
HV20 and Avid -- do I really care about pulldown?
- Thread starter sean90291
- Start date
Sean,
I just figured out a way to do it this morning. There is no additional software needed, but it is labor intensive. I am planning on doing a feature with a few HV20 clips mixed in with HVX 1080i 24P footage, so its a must for me.
The two issues are pulldown removal and raster expansion (1440 to 1920). To accomplish this do the following:
Bob
I just figured out a way to do it this morning. There is no additional software needed, but it is labor intensive. I am planning on doing a feature with a few HV20 clips mixed in with HVX 1080i 24P footage, so its a must for me.
The two issues are pulldown removal and raster expansion (1440 to 1920). To accomplish this do the following:
- In an HDV project, capture your interlaced 24P footage.
- Edit your sequence. In a frame by frame inspection you will see a duplicate frame every five frames, cut them out. (4-4-4-4-e-r-ctrl x, repeat until the next edit when the next dupe position will need to be identified)
- Export to a JPG sequence, resizing to 1920 x 1080
- Open a 24P project
- Import the JPG sequence by ctrl-selecting all of the jpg files.
Bob
krestofre
Knight of the Holy Order
Wow! That would take forever. I wish we could get file-based pulldown removal in Avid.
Whether or not pulldown is a big deal is more of a question of what you're doing with it. If you're just wanting to achieve a 24p cadence to your footage, then the camera does that shooting 24p and you can edit on a 60i timeline all day long and you'll be reasonably OK. Normal pulldown is better for this type of workflow, but I don't think the HV20 has the option of shooting with Normal pulldown (I could be wrong about that).
If you're wanting to take advantage of discreet frames then it becomes more of an issue and there's really no good solution in Avid at the moment.
Whether or not pulldown is a big deal is more of a question of what you're doing with it. If you're just wanting to achieve a 24p cadence to your footage, then the camera does that shooting 24p and you can edit on a 60i timeline all day long and you'll be reasonably OK. Normal pulldown is better for this type of workflow, but I don't think the HV20 has the option of shooting with Normal pulldown (I could be wrong about that).
If you're wanting to take advantage of discreet frames then it becomes more of an issue and there's really no good solution in Avid at the moment.
krestofre,
You are correct in both counts: it would take forever if you are doing anything other than short clips and there is only one type of 24P pulldown in the HV20. Looking at the footage I honestly cannot tell what type of pulldown it is, but I can tell you that there is one frame that is 'duped'.
Bob
You are correct in both counts: it would take forever if you are doing anything other than short clips and there is only one type of 24P pulldown in the HV20. Looking at the footage I honestly cannot tell what type of pulldown it is, but I can tell you that there is one frame that is 'duped'.
Bob
Yeah, HV20 only uses advanced pulldown. And there's no "pulldown flags" inserted, which poses a problem apparently.
Because there are more and more folks adopting the little HV20, and more and more workarounds being proposed for pulldown, I expect a better solution in the near future. But I still don't notice any practical difference between progressive and 1080i footage when looking at in Avid. I keep looking for interlaced frames and don't see any. I do see the duplicated frames that Bob Gruen mentions. Similarly, in After Effects, I don't see any interlacing with the HDV footage from the HV20.
Thanks for the thoughts.
Because there are more and more folks adopting the little HV20, and more and more workarounds being proposed for pulldown, I expect a better solution in the near future. But I still don't notice any practical difference between progressive and 1080i footage when looking at in Avid. I keep looking for interlaced frames and don't see any. I do see the duplicated frames that Bob Gruen mentions. Similarly, in After Effects, I don't see any interlacing with the HDV footage from the HV20.
Thanks for the thoughts.
I don't think its actually Panasonic's "Advanced Pulldown", as the duped frame does not have any interlaced artifacts, it's just a duped frame (although the noise in the extra frame is a little different). I think it will actually make the footage look bad as it breaks up the cadence. Unless you are planning on printing to 35mm I think I'd avoid the 24P setting.
If you are planning on printing to 35mm you must figure out a way to deal with it that fits your workflow. I have found one way in Avid, and I'm sure there are others. I recall a post on the Avid forum about removing pulldown in bulk to clips, checking them, saving the good ones and redoing the ones that missed. There was some setting that would tell Avid to skip one frame, but I can't find it now. It still would not fit my issue of raster expansion so it wouldn't be a complete solution for my situation, but it might fit what you want to do.
Bob
If you are planning on printing to 35mm you must figure out a way to deal with it that fits your workflow. I have found one way in Avid, and I'm sure there are others. I recall a post on the Avid forum about removing pulldown in bulk to clips, checking them, saving the good ones and redoing the ones that missed. There was some setting that would tell Avid to skip one frame, but I can't find it now. It still would not fit my issue of raster expansion so it wouldn't be a complete solution for my situation, but it might fit what you want to do.
Bob
cbrougham
Well-known member
I don't have an HV20, and I'm not in front of an Avid, so I'm not sure if this would work--but I found a way to convert 720/24p (non-native/over 60p) to 720/24pN with Xpress Pro. A similar approach may work with converting the 1080/24pA footage into 1080/24p native footage.
Basically, I export QT reference files from my 720/59.94p Avid project, which then are imported into a 720/23.976p Avid project. Because the 720/24p files have pulldown added in--which basically equates to 2 duplicated frames, then 3 duplicated frames, then 2, and so on--the Avid simply strips out those additional frames as it creates new 24p native media. Sometimes, the cadence is off in the imported files--you'll see it as a weird stuttering effect--so I go back into the 720/59.94p project, mark the faulty clips with a new inpoint that is one frame in from the beginning, and re-export. Usually, this takes care of the remaining clips, but you might have to go one more frame in on a couple of them to fix all the stuttering clips. In this case, there isn't any recompression going on, as the Avid is just stripping frames and stitching them back together in a new media file.
Presumably, and based on no empirical evidence whatsoever, this would work in your case as well. Export QT refs from your 1080/59.94i project, and reimport into a 1080/23.976p project. You should be able to set your Media Creation import settings to the DNxHD codec too, and that would reformat the clips to full raster 1920x1080. The QT ref export/import dance does reset all timecodes on clips to 01:00:00:00, so caveat emptor. I don't think you'd have to do the export more than once, however, because it sounds like the added frame is at a constant point in the media clips.
Wish I could try this, but you guys can be the guinea pigs. Hope it works!
Basically, I export QT reference files from my 720/59.94p Avid project, which then are imported into a 720/23.976p Avid project. Because the 720/24p files have pulldown added in--which basically equates to 2 duplicated frames, then 3 duplicated frames, then 2, and so on--the Avid simply strips out those additional frames as it creates new 24p native media. Sometimes, the cadence is off in the imported files--you'll see it as a weird stuttering effect--so I go back into the 720/59.94p project, mark the faulty clips with a new inpoint that is one frame in from the beginning, and re-export. Usually, this takes care of the remaining clips, but you might have to go one more frame in on a couple of them to fix all the stuttering clips. In this case, there isn't any recompression going on, as the Avid is just stripping frames and stitching them back together in a new media file.
Presumably, and based on no empirical evidence whatsoever, this would work in your case as well. Export QT refs from your 1080/59.94i project, and reimport into a 1080/23.976p project. You should be able to set your Media Creation import settings to the DNxHD codec too, and that would reformat the clips to full raster 1920x1080. The QT ref export/import dance does reset all timecodes on clips to 01:00:00:00, so caveat emptor. I don't think you'd have to do the export more than once, however, because it sounds like the added frame is at a constant point in the media clips.
Wish I could try this, but you guys can be the guinea pigs. Hope it works!
KingsReign
Well-known member
It would be nice if there was ANY 24P HDV support.