F3: "Hulkanizing" with 3ality Body Armor...
- Thread starter Tata Steva
- Start date
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
I would attach the base directly to the Sachtlerplate if you have a Sachtler head to keep things no higher than necessary. I also have a VCT-U14 plate but I think it's only for use with an ENG camera.
Sparky874
Well-known member
Thanks for reply. You wouldn't be able to use the shoulder pad then would you? (as that is where the plate would be attached?)
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
I guess you attach the head plate to the front part on the base, just like my movcam base does, and that makes it possible to have the shoulder pad on at the same time.
Grug
Veteran
My suggestion would be to get modding!
I use Manfrotto 501 plates across all of my support gear, so I had to drill a second hole in mine to allow it to mount to the 3/8" holes at the front of the baseplate (to allow for moving instantly between shoulder mounting and tripod mounting).
You'll want to create an equivalent setup with a VCT Wedge for your tripod plate. The best way to do that (if you're not handy yourself) would be to remove the shim plate from the front section of your ET Baseplate, and take it to a fabricator to get a duplicate made that doesn't have a great big hole in the centre of it like the shim plate. That will give you a flat base to secure a VCT wedge (like this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/VCT-Wedge-M...U14-Rail-System-Rod-Support-New-/280743539933 ).
And voila! All the functionality you're looking for.
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
Tata Steva
Well-known member
You need Elelment's VCT-U Kit.
Comes in two parts. Try to find it as they stopped producing it at the moment because fitment issues. I got mine, and it worked out fine (just with slight mod on the rear)....
Sparky874
Well-known member
Thanks Grug. Have you got a picture of your set up?
Sparky874
Well-known member
Thanks Tata. Had a good look through their site but sadly they don't seem provide the VCT-U kit anymore.
Grug
Veteran
This is my setup with the Manfrotto plate:
And here's the modification to the plate (standard plate on the right, my modified version on the left):
My setup works because the plate is long enough to mount to the two 3/8" holes on the baseplate. A VCT wedge is much smaller though, so you need to build some sort of platform to mount a wedge to (and the screws/holes for the shim plate that's already on your baseplate should be perfect for that).
Duke M.
Veteran
I hate to say it but most of you are ignoring the fact that you should have both the tripod and the shoulder pad directly under the balance point of the camera. The shoulder pad should not be at the rear of the camera otherwise you're limited to mere minutes until the camera starts moving. With a lens on the front that balance point is in the front of the camera and needs to be adjusted with vastly different weight lenses.
When the shoulder pad is under the balance point you can hold the camera up much longer and even alternate arms if you need to. Look at all the old shoulder mount ENG cameras.
When the shoulder pad is under the balance point you can hold the camera up much longer and even alternate arms if you need to. Look at all the old shoulder mount ENG cameras.
Duke M.
Veteran
You have the right pieces, but have them mounted in the wrong way. Put the long manfrotto dove tail plate under your camera for a large area of balance adjustment. Then mount the shoulder pad to the clamping part of the manfroto mount. That way your shoulder pad can be adjusted to the proper balance point by sliding it back and forth.
It only adds a half inch in height and lets it balance correctly. When you have an inexpensive manfrotto clamp on top of your tripod, on top of your shoulder pad and on top of your Steadi-cam type rig and it moves from one device to the other in 5 seconds, it looks professional and isn't expensive to do.
It only adds a half inch in height and lets it balance correctly. When you have an inexpensive manfrotto clamp on top of your tripod, on top of your shoulder pad and on top of your Steadi-cam type rig and it moves from one device to the other in 5 seconds, it looks professional and isn't expensive to do.
Tata Steva
Well-known member
We all know that F3 (and all newer models) are different by physical nature than (old) ENG cameras.... Balance on old cameras were totally different with most weight in the camera body it self (that sat on the shoulder), where all today's models have lights bodies and "heavy nose" (lens). In order to keep versatility and have both tripod mode and shoulder mode under same plate, layout must be like this ( as configured on Element, Moviecam, etc. plates...).
My experience is that extended period of shoulder mount shooting IS possible with out fatigue with my F3 set up. Yes, there is more weight on arms then with ENG style camera but if you configure your handles properly and assume proper position of your arms (closer to your body, for support) techniques is as sucessful as with "old" camera.
Honestly, I would rather carry my F3 kit on the shoulder than old betacam (those "boxes" were heavy AND large!)...
Grug
Veteran
A nice, thorough solution, but unfortunately the extra half inch in height makes the 15mm rod mounts in the baseplate unusable as they're specifically configured to the height of the camera with the baseplate directly attached.
Andrew Stone
Veteran
Here is a setup using the Wooden Camera an ARRI style dovetail setup. I went with the bridge (dovetail clamp as Wooden Camera calls it) that doesn't have accomodate for rods. It keeps the length down which is critical in this application. Both the bridge and the dovetail are relatively light to other ARRI dovetail soltuions. The dovetail itself is the eight inch version. It is barely long enough but balancing is still possible. I would recommend the 12" version which will also help if you are balancing with long heavy lenses.
The rig shown in the pictures is setup to be balanced for shoulder rig configuration. You would want to slide in the recorder somewhat when on the tripod. If you had the 12" dovetail you could slide the bridge around more but with added torque to the top of the tripod.
Of special note is the position of the shoulder rest. You will have to move it back one position in order to not have the bridge dig into your shoulder. The same would be for Grug's manfrotto plate setup as well. Given this you will need balast on the backend. I am not in agreement with Tata's suggestion of positioning your arms such against the body to take up the weight. Leads to fatigue which diminishes attention on framing and general aesthetic thought.
I haven't installed the Armor Kit yet as I need to get machining done for my EVF transformer and mount. This mount is better more flexible that using a spud in the top handle and brings the EVF closer to being inline with the eye.
The bridge or "dovetail clamp" as Wooden Camera call it will require an adjustment in the camera bag with a 1'' pad under the shoulder rest.
I got 2 dovetails and dovetail clamps so both of my cameras can now be quickly mounted on either a tripod or steadicam with a great deal less mounting and unmounting cheeseplates and tripod plates.
The angling of the base in the photo is due to the effect of the wide angle lens I was using. There is absolutely no sagging with this setup which is the whole reason for using ARRI dovetails: you get an absolutely true and flat plane with this kind of mounting.
The tightening knob on the dovetail clamp, despite it's flimsy appearance, is relatively good. It does have a ratchet mechanism similar to kipp or the newer zacuto handles, so you can swing them out of the way as required.
So far it is living up my expectation.
The rig shown in the pictures is setup to be balanced for shoulder rig configuration. You would want to slide in the recorder somewhat when on the tripod. If you had the 12" dovetail you could slide the bridge around more but with added torque to the top of the tripod.
Of special note is the position of the shoulder rest. You will have to move it back one position in order to not have the bridge dig into your shoulder. The same would be for Grug's manfrotto plate setup as well. Given this you will need balast on the backend. I am not in agreement with Tata's suggestion of positioning your arms such against the body to take up the weight. Leads to fatigue which diminishes attention on framing and general aesthetic thought.
I haven't installed the Armor Kit yet as I need to get machining done for my EVF transformer and mount. This mount is better more flexible that using a spud in the top handle and brings the EVF closer to being inline with the eye.
The bridge or "dovetail clamp" as Wooden Camera call it will require an adjustment in the camera bag with a 1'' pad under the shoulder rest.
I got 2 dovetails and dovetail clamps so both of my cameras can now be quickly mounted on either a tripod or steadicam with a great deal less mounting and unmounting cheeseplates and tripod plates.
The angling of the base in the photo is due to the effect of the wide angle lens I was using. There is absolutely no sagging with this setup which is the whole reason for using ARRI dovetails: you get an absolutely true and flat plane with this kind of mounting.
The tightening knob on the dovetail clamp, despite it's flimsy appearance, is relatively good. It does have a ratchet mechanism similar to kipp or the newer zacuto handles, so you can swing them out of the way as required.
So far it is living up my expectation.
Attachments
Grug
Veteran
Nice dovetail setup Andrew, looks like the next best bet to switching out the F3 Riser for the Micron Bridgeplate. A shame it forces the shoulder pad back that extra notch though, with the weight distribution of the F3 I find I really want to get the shoulder as far under the camera as possible. My little customised Manfrotto setup allows for the shoulder pad to sit right up against the riser, but and extra centimeter or so would really be nice.
Joey Romero
Member
Our v2 shoulder pad could help a few of these shoulder pad concerns. The new shoulder pad is now designed to clear our Micron Dovetail when installed with a Micron BridgePlate but can be used in all of our magnetic shoulder pad products: http://elementtechnica.mybigcommerce.com/universal-shoulder-pad-v2/
Andrew Stone
Veteran
Didn't think of swapping out the riser. Regardless, I was and am interested in standardization. The ARRI dovetail standard has been around for decades and many productions and rental houses are deeply invested into this.
The Micron system is elegant, no doubt. It's up to people to decide which standard suits them better when doing the cost/benefit analysis.
- - -
The reason I went with the Wooden Camera version of the ARRI dovetail design was based on weight as a primary consideration. These things are really light. I will weigh one up later on.
The Micron system is elegant, no doubt. It's up to people to decide which standard suits them better when doing the cost/benefit analysis.
- - -
The reason I went with the Wooden Camera version of the ARRI dovetail design was based on weight as a primary consideration. These things are really light. I will weigh one up later on.