HPX502 vs PMW350

Otis Grapsas said:
The CCD models are a lot more capable. The only thing CMOS does better is testcharts and locked shots.
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Couldn't have said it better myself. Until a CMOS chip hand handle motion like a CCD, its really no contest withing actual use in the field. The only camera I have ever seen to handle this is RED, and well thats not for everyone like an ENG/EFP type camera is.
 
Giuseppe Pugliese said:
Couldn't have said it better myself. Until a CMOS chip hand handle motion like a CCD, its really no contest withing actual use in the field. The only camera I have ever seen to handle this is RED, and well thats not for everyone like an ENG/EFP type camera is.
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Even the RED get turned down in favour of HPX3700 due to some of the CMOS issues, at least here in Norway a DP went with the 3700 since the CCD held up much better for hand held action shooting.(extensive testing where done)

Looking forward to see how the new ARRI deals with the CMOS chip. There are some that makes cmos work just fine, Vision Research with their Phantom line. The new Flex model also offers a global shutter, not rolling shutter. But as you said, not EFP/ENG style, which is very handy for most work.

Resolution and for low light shooting the cmos chip has some advantages over ccd, it's available at a much lower pricepoint. But there's also so much more to a picture than resolution....
 
Andrew Money said:
From what I understand, HPX-500 1080p acquisition is at least as sharp as PMW 350 720p acquisition
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I'd doubt that actually, though like you I've not done tests either. I used a 500 for a couple of days a few years back, and the 1080 was definitely a fair bit better than the 720, but still pretty soft. Main thing I really hated was the viewfinder, it was terrible. Apparently the circuitry in the camera that deals with the viewfinder will only handle SD viewfinders so you can't put a Varicam one on it for instance.

As for the 2700, AFAIK that deals excludes viewfinder, so that'll add another £2500 to the price too!
I sold my 2700 a while back, but it was a really nice camera, and never had a problem with soft looking pictures there despite the 720.
Steve
 
steve phillipps said:
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As for the 2700, AFAIK that deals excludes viewfinder, so that'll add another £2500 to the price too!
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This really highlights the still true price difference. The PMW-350 comes with a viewfinder and a lens for ~$19,000.

You would still need to purchase a viewfinder and a lens on top of the ~$19,000 with the HPX-2700. Does not seem like an apples to apples price comparison from this perspective.
 
Agreed, 'cos of course a half decent lens like an HJ22 will set you back £13,000 or so.
This is the CCD premium, and it seems a lot of users are not bothered enough about CMOS issues to pay the extra, and it really does make the initial HPX2700 price look ludicrous - it's 720 for heaven's sake!
Steve
 
steve phillipps said:
Agreed, 'cos of course a half decent lens like an HJ22 will set you back £13,000 or so.
This is the CCD premium, and it seems a lot of users are not bothered enough about CMOS issues to pay the extra, and it really does make the initial HPX2700 price look ludicrous - it's 720 for heaven's sake!
Steve
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It's not 720p only, it also does 1080p by internal processes. The 1080p on the 2700 is WORLDS better than the 1080p on the HPX500, and the 500 is considered a 1080p camera.

You can get a used 2700 with lens, you don't have to buy brand new, these are not cameras that have tape heads that go bad, or moving parts that wear out. These cameras are just as good as new even when a few years old, theres no difference.

Its a completely different ball game when you are talking about P2 cameras. There's really no point in buying a new one when you can get used. Specially if you're talking about pinching pennies.

As for lenses, whats great about lenses are there are so many at so many price levels. You don't have to step right up to a 13k lens, there are really great lenses out there for way less. You just need to shop. You might be able to get an entire 2700 kit with lens used for that price if you look hard enough.

Again, no reason to buy these new, and I don't understand why that wasn't even a consideration. When worrying about budget, thats usually the first thing you think of... get it used.
 
Agree with all of that, I used to have a 2700 and I loved it, no complaints at all (except pre record not working in variable frame rate mode!!!)
Don't agree about lenses though, I'd adjust your statement to "you can get some pretty crap lenses for a lot less"! I think the bare minimum decent lens is the Fuji 18x7.6 (I had one and it was really nice) and that's still a good £9,000 or so.
Just my thoughts.
Steve
 
We have an HPX2700 and what it offers over an HPX500 is a 10-bit, full sample, native, progressive codec, 11-stops of latitude, more resolution, a smoothness in tonality and natural highlight handling(especially with Film-Rec) that I haven't seen in cameras at the price point that the 2700 is available for. In comparison, the 2700 looks film like, the 500 looks like a low cost video camera, especially with clipping highlights and it just doesn't resolve fine detail in wide shots.

I agree with Giuseppe that a used P2 camera is a good option. An HPX2000 can be bought for $14K or under, often with an AVC-Intra board. This camera has the same CCD's as the 2700, and produces lovely, refined images.

Regarding lenses, again I agree with Giuseppe. We had a Fujinon HA18X7.6 with our HDX900. I wasn't happy with CA, even after modifying the lens for CAC. I evaluated two XA17X7.6's and a ZA17X7.6 side by side with the HA18X7.6. I also looked at other HA18X7.6 lenses that were better than our HA18 and found the XA and ZA lenses to be just as good. They use the same glass and the only difference beyond zoom ratio is supposedly QC steps at the factory. Bottom line, I believe that the XA17X7.6 is the best value in an HD ENG zoom lens. The ZA is the exact same lens but lots more money. An XA17X7.6 for $7K with a CAC camera works very well, we sold our HA and bought the XA due to improved CA.

I have seen a PMW350 and was very impressed with the resolution and noise level. I do not like the stock Fuji lens or Canon option and I'd be very unhappy only having one HD SDI output vs. three on our 2700 and I just prefer the look of a P2 Varicam camera over anything near their price points--2700 or 3700, never mind the inferior, low-bit rate, Long GOP, 4:2:0 codec found in the 350.

My rental clients are loving our 2700, AVC-Intra 100 and Film-Rec 600% are pretty sweet!
 
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