HPX500 with adaptor on the Big Screen?

I

Indyreel

Well-known member
From what I've read, the 500 is marginally good enough for "professional" looking resolution for the big screen.

If this is true, then wouldn't the use of a 35mm adaptor render the footage unacceptable for projection onto a movie screen?

P.S. Are there any movies available on DVD that have been shot with the HPX 500?
 
"marginally good enough"? It's been accepted for unrestricted acquisition by Discovery HD. It's fine.

Whether an adapter will help or hurt your cause is up to a) the quality of the adapter under consideration, and b) your skill level with it.
 
Barry_Green said:
"marginally good enough"? It's been accepted for unrestricted acquisition by Discovery HD. It's fine.

Whether an adapter will help or hurt your cause is up to a) the quality of the adapter under consideration, and b) your skill level with it.
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Barry,

I meant, "marginally good enough" when projected onto the big screen", not HD TV. My comment was based on all the posts I've read regarding this topic on dvxuser.

So far no one has come out and officially stated that "Done right, the HPX500 resolution is excellent when projected onto the big screen", so I'm making a generalization based on the varying opinions.

I'm interested in the HPX500/B4Relay setup. But before buying, I want to know if this type of setup will inherently diffuse the image so much that it will be unconfortable to watch in a movie theater.

Do you know? If not, can you refer me to someone who does.

Thank you.
 
Well, the B4 relay doesn't do anything to the image, so it still depends on what adapter you're using.

Borat was shot on a Varicam, and the HPX500 should deliver an image extremely comparable to the Varicam, or perhaps even sharper when shot in 1080p mode.

So it still depends on what kind of adapter you're talking about. If you're thinking of using a Letus Ultimate, there's no degradation of the image at all in normal HDTV viewing.

Remember that there have been several DVX100 movies that have made it to film distribution on the big screen, including The Aristocrats, 9 Songs, November, Lonesome Jim, Mad Hot Ballroom, Murderball, and others. An HPX500 with a good adapter will be astonishingly better looking than a DVX100.

Kholi Hicks has seen HVX200 footage through a Redrock adapter and thought it looked phenomenal. An HPX500 will look better, and an Ultimate will look better than a Redrock.

The only way for you to know for sure is to test it yourself.

I printed DVX100 anamorphic-adapter footage to 35mm film and projected it in a theater. From the sixth row, it was... eh, marginal. It was okay, but it wasn't stellar. From the back row, it looked frickin' fantastic, no complaints whatsoever. An HPX500 is going to look WAY better than a DVX100 using an anamorphic adapter.

So -- in general I'd say you have nothing to worry about, unless you're talking about using a coke-can adapter or something like that. Choose an excellent adapter, or -- don't use an adapter at all. The HPX500 can get some pretty shallow DOF effects on its own, about comparable to 16mm film. Look at our short "Unawakening" for some examples of raw-lens HPX500 footage that tries to look cinematic.
 
Barry,

Thanks so much for your response.

I have been racking by brains on this topic for weeks and finally have a clear cut answer.

Your straight forwardness is much appreciated.

BTW I plan on using the Letus Pro Relay/Ultimate set up or the Cinevate Set up.
 
As a film recorder owner and a DI supervisor I have filmout more than 40 films until today...

The film projection, when is 1:1,85, the projector can deliver, no mater what is the original resolution, no more than 850 lines and that includes Kodak theater in Hollywood... regional theaters they don't deliver more than 700 lines...

http://www.motionfx.gr/Files/35mm_resolution_english.pdf

Check out your selected set up with the adapter and without the adapter, remember to have sharpness on camera in a setting equal to OFF. Try to see how much it diffuses the image if it has to much diffuse you will have a problem...

If you can inter cut between the adapter and your standard lens then you are OK...

In my experience all the diffused ground glass are soft. You need a non diffused GG in order to bypass the promist effect... and have a sharp projection...
 
Barry_Green said:
Well, the B4 relay doesn't do anything to the image, so it still depends on what adapter you're using.

If you're thinking of using a Letus Ultimate, there's no degradation of the image at all in normal HDTV viewing.
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Barry, your post does not reflect my experiences with the Ultimate or the Pro35, there is always softening of the image due to the GG in the 35mm adapter, and those are two of the best.

I have been testing the Letus B4 Relays extensively and have found that the iris setting has a very obvious effect in sharpness and contrast, same as any lens, same as iris level on the 35mm taking lens.
 
Haven't used the B4 relay. I'm saying in general, if you look at the image coming off an ultimate, it doesn't look degraded.
 
Barry_Green said:
Haven't used the B4 relay. I'm saying in general, if you look at the image coming off an ultimate, it doesn't look degraded.
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I wouldn't cut my HDX900/Ultimate/Nikons together with my Fuji HA18X7.6 HD zoom in the same show. The latter always looks sharper. Same with Pro 35 and HD zoom lens.

Having said that, doing a film out, I would prefer the selective focus and organic look of a 35mm adapter, but I wouldn't expect it to look as sharp as 35mm film!
 
When we get some of our footage up from the HPX500, new Zeiss PL compact primes, and the Brevis MP.2/Cinevate relay, I think you'll be very impressed. I haven't been this excited about images from a video camera for quite some time. The HPX500 imaging system is very impressive when compared to cameras like the HVX200, XH-A1 and EX1 in terms of how clean it is. So although I have never done a film out (and likely never will), what I can say is that of all the cameras we've tested on the adapter, the HPX500 would be my preference based on testing so far with our B4 relay. Edge to edge sharpness, chromatic aberration levels and signal cleanliness are the best we seen from any camera yet. In terms of light efficiency we're finding that in sunlight, f5.6 on the taking lens, f8 on the relay and ND4 on the camera are still not enought to cut exposure. In other words, you'll want an .9ND out front in a mattebox if you're shooting outdoors. We'll do more formal testing shortly on light loss, but I'd rate it in the area of two stops more sensitive than our EX1/Brevis combination.
 
I've only compared the HPX500 to an EX-1 very briefly, but in that test it seemed very clear to me that the EX-1 had considerably more resolution than the HPX500.
On the other hand the HPX was much faster and in the mixed flourescent daylight tungstun interior of the rental house I was in the colorimetry of the HPX did a much nicer job of producing a pretty picture in the mixed light.

If resolution is your main concern then I would consider shooting with an EX-1 or 3 and an adapter.

Along those lines Dennis, I would think that most of the market for a B4 adapter that I know of would be with an F900 or a Varicam/HDX900 (or possibly an SDX900) as those are the most commonly used B4 cameras in my area anyway. Those are the cameras I see most commonly being used with a Pro35 also. All of those have more resolution than an HPX500 so I think many people would want to see tests with those cameras. Presumably the F900 would be best.
You know how chart happy I am - I of course want to see a chart @ wide open f-stop, however even then I would want to see it on an F900 rather than an HPX because that will reveal much more.

I don't want to minimize your results with the HPX - its very encouraging, Nor do I want o knock the camera itself as it takes great pictures, just making the point that a lot of people will want to see what it can do a on a full strength B4 camera with a true HD chip.


Lenny Levy
 
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Lenny,

I agree. I've had an EX1 and HDX900 side by side and the EX1 is sharper than the HDX900 in 1080/24p. When I put both cameras at 720/24p, it was closer, since that's the HDX900's native resolution.

At one point I had the EX1/Ultimate combo at 1080/24p A-B'd with the HDX900 at 1080/24p and its Fuji HA18X7.6, and the EX1/Ultimate was similar in resolution, whereas putting an Ultimate on my HDX900 is definitely softer than the Fuji HD zoom lens.

The EX1 is a lot slower than the HDX900, however.

The best test cameras for B4 relays would be the F900R, PDW700 or 800, or HPX3000 or 3700.

I've seen the HPX500 look very good with a Pro35, so it's no slouch, but it's hard to beet a full raster HD camera.
 
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