HPX500 Beeping Sound from Camera

A

atomicgum

Member
Hey guys,

We were shooting a scene with the HPX with audio going straight into the camera. We miked it with the Sennheiser 816 and a 416.

During the shoot, I noticed a beeping sound but couldn't locate a source. During playback in Final Cut, the beeping sound was there too and someone said that it came from the HPX. They shot with another HPX camera on a separate occasion and a similar beeping sound was heard that got recorded onto the audio track.

It's a barely audible beeping sound that is spaced out at regular intervals.

Is there some way to turn the beeping off?

Thanks.
 
The HPX2000 has a setting to turn the near end and end p2 card beep off and on.
its located under the main operation/battery/p2card
I would guess its there in the HPX500.

Mule Ferguson
 
Sounds like the monitor/alarm volume control.

There is a dial on the left side of the camera under the Scene File control knob.

Try turning that down.

-Brad
 
Is it a persistent faint beep? If so, I encountered that on my HVX200 with a 16GB card in slot 1. I sent it in for service to look at it and see what's happening. But if you're encountering such an issue, I'd say use a 4GB or 8GB card in slot one, or just ignore slot one, until we know more about what causes it.
 
Yes, it's a persistent faint beep. When someone is speaking or if there is a discernible sound source, the beeping is almost inaudible but when it's only roomtone, it can be heard quite easily.

Does this have to do with the 16Gb cards we're using?

We caught a similar beep off our HVX too. But since it's a designated MOS camera we weren't too concerned about it.

Would it eliminate the beeping if we utilized slots 2,3 and 4 on the HPX?
 
Did I hear you say ignore slot one? I'm sorry I really don't want to ignore slot one. I need all the slots I paid for on the camera.

I recall using an SDX 900 a while back that had a high pitched noise coming from it on a shoot. Since it was a rental I just backed it off and shot all the interviews on the tele end of the lens.

I asked later whether it was fixed and was told no that it was a normal sound for the camera. Hmmm... The sound was loud enough so that everyone within 5 feet of the camera could hear it quite clearly. If it had been an older movie camera I would have sent the ac for the blimp.

I like my 500 but are somethings that make me think that panny doesn't do all their homework sometimes. The 5600 k preset prob springs immediately to mind. I usually charge to beta test equip. Or at least get the stuff for free.
 
davhud said:
Did I hear you say ignore slot one?
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UNTIL the problem is resolved. Or live with the beep if there's a beep in slot one. I don't know what other alternatives there are.
I'm sorry I really don't want to ignore slot one. I need all the slots I paid for on the camera.
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So do we all. But until there's a fix, what else do you propose? I've already sent my own camera in to them to look at the beep and see what it's all about. But if you're shooting until then, I don't know what to tell you. I only encountered it in slot one, and only with a 16GB card in it. So put an 8GB in there. Or a four. Or ignore slot one. Or live with the beep. What other options are there, until a fix is released?

The 5600 k preset prob springs immediately to mind.
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I showed them a vectorscope of that issue, so what can be done is being done.

I usually charge to beta test equip. Or at least get the stuff for free.
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Then you shouldn't ever buy a new product in its first iteration, or a piece of software in its first iteration. Sorry but this is the world we live in. If you want to be an early adopter, you have to take some lumps with that too, that is the reality of today's marketplace. Doesn't mean we have to like it, but no product is absolutely perfect when it first rolls off the production line, and things like this are going to be discovered.

We (the world in general) used the DVX100 for six months before anyone even noticed that the audio was 2 frames out of sync when shooting 24P mode. The Varicam had been on the market for a couple of years prior to that, with the same problem. Did anyone notice? It happens. It happens with every product line. No, you don't have to like that, but if you want to use the latest gear, that comes with the territory.
 
No offense Barry but you shouldn't have to show them anything. This is something that anyone with eyes should have seen.

The 5600k preset I'm referring to.

They are the camera manufacturer. They have provided us with a defective product. We are the consumer we paid for the equipment. If they can't as the manufacturer produce a product we are happy with they will suffer the consequences in the marketplace eventually.

There was a time when no manufacturer of professional equipment would have let a piece of equipment so obviously flawed leave its hands. Why? Because it would have been immediately rejected by their customers and damaged their reputation.

It troubles me that we have come to this. These cameras may not be the all singing all dancing high end 100 grand hd cameras but they still represent a substantial investment for most of their owners.

The fact that YOU have to show them something that is so blatantly obvious is really mindboggling.

Who are they trying to fool?
 
I agree that it would have been better had the product been delivered with no issues whatsoever. Once upon a time products were introduced much more slowly -- and not all that long ago, either. The Canon XL2 came out six years (SIX YEARS) after the XL1. It's not like that anymore. Everything moves faster.

I was in software development for something like 15 years, so I know very well that there's two levels of product testing that go on. We tested the living daylights out of our programs, we had a playtester department with 20 to 40 guys on staff or so, plus we contracted out to outside independent testing agencies. We'd fix everything they told us about. And we'd launch the product, and guess what -- within days we'd hear about scores of bugs that we *never* heard of before. It happens. We'd then issue a patch and things would be well in the world after that.

I'm sure a similar scenario exists. Every manufacturer has issues like this. Ask JVC about "split screen", ask Sony about "oil paint". It happens.

As to why they didn't catch the green preset, I have no idea. That one was simple, they should have caught it.

With all that said though, the fact remains that when something happens we can choose to respond in a few ways: we can gripe about it, we can try to fix it, or we can swear it off and move to another product (and every manufacturer is going to go through a phase where this happens to a greater or lesser degree). I funnel stuff through to them because I see all that goes on here, I work with shooters in the field, and I use the gear myself, so I probably have a better pulse on what the real issues are than most people do. And having been in development, I know how incredibly handy it is to have someone outline a precise repeatable exact set of circumstances under which the issue occurs.

Should I have to do this? Of course not. But if it helps the problems get resolved quicker, and subsequently makes life better for the shooters, well -- why not?
 
I'm off on a shoot today so I won't have the opportunity to go much further with this but let me run a hypothetical scenario by you.

Shipping day is coming hard deadlines have to be met. Every camera in company A's line from it's highest end HD product to it's most pedestrian consumer camera has beautiful outdoor color rendition. Why even all it's competitors do too.

Every camera but one... everyone in the company that has anything to do with the camera which has of course been tested almost to destruction for years knows about the problem. Why it's plainly visible on all their scopes, which of course are the latest and greatest. The lens manufacturer has even been brought in. They have promised a lens which while not a great lens they've guaranteed will be able to make this new camera work very much like it's big brothers with proper color rendition but through the magic of software instead of the much more expensive proposal of multi coating and correcting each element in the lens. And they have, to a point. Just one situation this wonderful idea can't handle. High contrast outdoor shooting. Every time they try to make the camera produce proper color in this situation sharp edges in the image have a terrible tendency to ring magenta. Their new software solution, KAKA, to an age old problem of color fringing is not ready for prime time.
What shall company A do?

Do they:
A: wait until the software is mature enough to provide their customers with the product they were led to believe they were getting based on many slick advertisements.

or

B: They go ahead and ship knowing that only a handful of customers or even many trusted reviewers and pundits will even notice.

I don't know if my fairy tale is true.

My issue here is that they had to know about this. The only reason they would ship a camera that couldn't render proper outdoor color is because they HAD too. They made a decision to spend some of their karmic capital in the marketplace. I hope their bank account is deep.

I wonder if this issue can be fixed. I hope releasing a patch is the answer. However if the lens-ccd -dsp chain can't be made to play nice with each other in all normal shooting situations this could get ugly.

I have to believe based on what I've seen with other situations like this is that if the fix is too expensive we the consumer will be left holding the bag.
 
Whoa... I just encountered this problem last weekend while shooting junkets with my HVX for MTV.

With users on this board employed by high profile clients I really hope Panasonic addresses this issue as soon as possible.

I'll try slot 2 for now as a work-around.
 
davhud said:
I don't know if my fairy tale is true.
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Oh please. This is patently ridiculous. Just do a manual white balance and you get absolutely perfect color rendition on the vectorscope, and no, everything doesn't go purple!

I'll give you an alternate scenario, one that I think is far more likely. They happen to produce the most popular professional high-def camera in the world, a small 2-slot tapeless camera. It sells better than anyone ever imagined, and there are no problems with the core imager. They decide to produce a 2/3" version of that same camera. They use the same core software. Why would they expect there to be any problem? They don't. So somewhere along the way, whether with the 2/3" imaging block or the prism or the lens or something, there's a touch of green introduced. But since it's based off an extraordinarily successful design, nobody notices because they don't expect they have to.

And, true enough to form, the product shows at trade shows, gets loaned out to reviewers, and is on the market for a couple of months before someone notices that there's an issue.

You can hunt witches all you want, or you can recognize that in a brand new product launch there are a hundred million things that could go wrong. So far we've identified one or two extremely minor things that went slightly wrong, and those have been brought to the company's attention.

Sheesh, if you're looking at things like this, I wonder what you'll make of Sony's EX1/rolling shutter issues... ;)

My issue here is that they had to know about this. The only reason they would ship a camera that couldn't render proper outdoor color is because they HAD too.
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My question for you is: have you ever been involved in manufacturing/product development? Because if not, you may not realize just how easily something like this could happen, has happened in the past, and will happen in the future. Ever listen to the audio on the original PD150? It had a hiss like an angry cat. Ever use the original Canon XL1? Point it at a flat color surface and you'd see more bands than the lineup at VoodooFest (and when Pappas pointed it out to them, they came back with the suggestion that everyone should just use 6dB of gain!) Ever see the grid of green lines running through XL1 footage? Nobody else did, for a few months, until Pappas pointed it out, and then we all saw it and couldn't get past it, and Canon fixed it. Ever seen the split screen effect on the JVC HD100/200 series? Talk about a defect, that was a massive unacceptable problem. JVC's eventual answer was to say "it's not a defect, live with it." When that didn't fly, they started tightly calibrating the cameras, spending hours of technician time manually adjusting them. Good for the users, bad for the bottom line, but it's what they had to do. Ever seen what happens when you try to tape flash photography or film under older fluorescents with a CMOS camera? That renders the footage unusable. Yet manufacturers are still releasing rolling-shutter CMOS cameras.

Point is, this stuff happens. And no, it's not an evil conspiracy by a penny-pinching manufacturer to extort and take advantage of their users. Stuff slips through. Every manufacturer has to deal with it. Get used to it.

I wonder if this issue can be fixed. I hope releasing a patch is the answer. However if the lens-ccd -dsp chain can't be made to play nice with each other in all normal shooting situations this could get ugly.
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Seriously, you really, really should stop this doomsday scenario seeing bogeys around every corner. I don't know if you have a particular axe to grind, but you're going way past the bounds of normal in trying to paint a bleak picture.

OF COURSE it's easily fixable. Obviously it can be made to play nice together -- just do a manual white balance and you can see absolutely perfect color rendition on a vectorscope. That proves there's no hardware problem with the lens/chip/DSP combo, obviously it can deliver perfect whites. So presumably they just have to adjust the preset's default values.

I have to believe based on what I've seen with other situations like this is that if the fix is too expensive we the consumer will be left holding the bag.
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It's happened before. Sony's hissing audio was so bad they were forced to come up with a hardware fix. But, being Sony, they refused to warranty the defective cameras, they instead demanded that there was no defect but if someone wanted to "improve" their camera they could PAY $150 for it! Outrageous, but it happens.

Sometimes manufacturers have so many problems (like the disastrous "mode changing" issue on the HD100, where you could tape for maybe 40 minutes only to find out that there's nothing on the tape at all!) that they have to issue what amounts to a complete recall. How do they do that and save face? By calling it an "upgrade" to the HD100A. What was "upgraded"? No new features, just fixes to bugs like how their Anton Bauer battery mount wouldn't communicate properly with the camera head about remaining life, etc. But at least JVC did that recall/"upgrade" for free.

Again, I'm not saying you have to like it. But if you don't start expecting stuff like this to happen, from every manufacturer, you're just not living in the real world. If you want a fully-functional finished product with no issues, wait for the second generation and don't buy the first. heck, look at the Red users -- they're taking delivery of product that isn't even DONE yet. Can't even record audio yet, that's promised for a future update. Buyers are given a choice of either waiting for all features to be enabled, or taking delivery now and using it in a limited capacity now, with a free upgrade to full functionality when it's available. So far I believe most users are choosing to take delivery now, with the understanding that they'll get full functionality later.

As for the HPX500 -- the top levels of Panasonic USA are aware of the circumstances and I believe they are working on fixes. Not a whole lot more that can be done.
 
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If what you say is true then it seems to me that no one in Japan that actually shoots with these cameras everyday actually tests them until they hit the street. Which I find almost as mind boggling as anything else we've discussed over the last few days.

As far as Red. I find their cult/paranoia/ mentality really off putting but they were very up front about the state of their product so that you could decide for yourself to jump in or not.

Yes I have worked with prototype equipment all through the 90's w a large Japanese manufacturer. I was responsible for producing all the instructional videos for their new products so I was frequently intimately involved in the preproduction and production cycle.

I know that you can't test for everything and that the public will find a way to break your toy that you never dreamed possible.

That said this isn't some feature buried somewhere 3 menus deep that no one ever uses. This is the main 5600k color preset on the camera. I really don't for minute believe that someone just didn't see it. Just the fact that this camera has a different lens on it from the 200 would have caused any sane tech to put it on the scope to see how it responded to different glass.

If it's easily fixable let's fix it and forget about it.

I guess I'm just expecting too much nowadays.

"When using professional equipment, I don't want to jump through hoops -- I want it to just work. " Barry Green 2007
 
I agree, I think it's silly that the preset is off. I don't understand how that slipped through the cracks. I'm not disagreeing there at all. It's been shown to them, and hopefully a fix is imminent.
 
My HVX202 and every other HVX202 I've used in Australia has this audio problem in slot one ( on both 8 and 16 gig cards ). When recording important audio we only use slot 2 and rotate the cards. It is like there is electrical interference between the card writer and the audio processing.
 
It happened to me with my hvx with a 16g card in slot one also. It was only when we had a wireless lav in use. Truth is, you didnt even notice in post. We didnt even filter our audio, if you ran a compressor on the audio, I doubt anyone could hear it.

beep...beep...beep

wait what was that?
 
Famous last words... but the sound guy said we could fix that!
Luckily my 500 doesn't seem to exhibit the beeping.
I recall reading the side plate of a Sony camera once with wording to the effect that the camera didn't comply with FCC requirements for RF shielding or something like that. I wonder... No I don't want to think about all that stray RF blasting whats left of my production addled brain.
 
I am running into a very similar problem.

We are using the 16 gig cards and the beeping is present in more than one slot. It doesnt seem to happen everytime, but the camera has to be rolling for the noise to occur. I havent had time to go back and check the cards to see if it recorded to the card as well, but it sounds like it is present on the card.

What were you able to do to get the problem resolved? Can you get it out using sound forge or so similar audio program? Were you able to use the footage?

I guess I'm trying to see what you guys did to use the footage until the probelm gets addressed by Panasonic.

Thanks!

Mike
 
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