Hpx300 rumors

I think a reason why this unit doesn't have 1/2" chips is because of the added cost. The larger chips would add to the price not to mention the extra cost to include a 1/2" lense. With all that added, they wouldn't be able to offer it at such a great price. This camera already has so many high-end features packed into it. It is a good comprimise between price and high-end features like AVC-Intra.

And if it did use 1/2" chips, people would be asking 'why not 2/3"?' And so on...
 
markyf said:
Actually, if one of the companys would come out with a proper 1/3" relay then 35mm lens, adaptor, relay combo would be the size of the Fujinon lens, so it would be easy as pie. I might even buy one if this is the case. I've been an adaptor-hater, only because they've been so long and ridiculous and ugly but being able to skip a fixed lens might make them ideal.
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I agree. I calculate that the Letus B4 Compact 2/3" Relay lens, Letus Ultimate, and 50mm Nikon taking lens is only 1" longer than my Fujinon HA18X7.6 HD ENG zoom lens.

The other advantage of using a relay on a shoulder mount camcorder vs. fixed lens on a palmcorder is that hand-held is SO much easier than the counter weighted, 4' long rod setups with shoulder pad, external monitor scenario.
 
Dino said:
The other advantage of using a relay on a shoulder mount camcorder vs. fixed lens on a palmcorder is that hand-held is SO much easier than the counter weighted, 4' long rod setups with shoulder pad, external monitor scenario.
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Agreed. BUT that's because we don't have a palmcorder with all the features an adapter user needs.

There are situations where I'd rather use a smaller rig like a HPX170 with a Brevis non-flip (the lightest weight 35mm Adapter - it doesn't even require rods depending on the taking lens) but the HPX170 needs some tweaks to be a viable rig (and improve on the above mentioned "long rod setups with shoulder pad, external monitor scenario").

I want a HPX170 with the HPX300 Scan Reverse option (Scan Reverse records the adapter image with correct orientation and allows use of all focus assists) and the HPX300's improved resolution (1920 x 480) 16x9 LCD. That would be a great camera for adapter users.

Hi Jan if you are reading! Just give us adapter folk a bone. An upgraded HPX170 with 16x9 LCD & Scan Reverse, HPX170 with 16x9 LCD & Scan Reverse, HPX170 with 16x9 Scan Reverse...
 
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jackie starr said:
Agreed. BUT that's because we don't have a palmcorder with all the features an adapter user needs.

There are situations where I'd rather use a smaller rig like a HPX170 with a Brevis non-flip (the lightest weight 35mm Adapter - it doesn't even require rods depending on the taking lens) but the HPX170 needs some tweaks to be a viable rig (and improve on the above mentioned "long rod setups with shoulder pad, external monitor scenario").

I want a HPX170 with the HPX300 Scan Reverse option (Scan Reverse records the adapter image with correct orientation and allows use of all focus assists) and the HPX300's improved resolution (1920 x 480) 16x9 LCD. That would be a great camera for adapter users.
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Jackie, yes, there is something to be said for the wonderfully small footprint of the HPX170 and a 35mm adapter. A couple of weeks ago I flew to Arizona with my 170/Ultimate/V2 Rods/Nikon 50mm all built up in a hand carry bag. Worked great on sticks, but not for hand-held, although I do have a shoulder mount and dual handles for the rods(can you say "front heavy"?).

JVC has had the scan reverse in the HD-200 for awhile, I'm surprised Panasonic didn't do it for the HPX170 vs. just the LCD, but it is easy to flip in post. I too would love to have the 300's LCD on the 170!
 
Well, looks like we should not discount total noobies coming in and posting specs on unknown cameras seeing as how typo had it nailed on page 2 :)

Later,
Jason
 
Agreed Jason. When I first read the posts, I said to myself with skepticism: "We'll just wait and see what really comes of this". Looks like not all rumors are hype.


J
 
DSWMEDIA said:
i just don't see why not, seeing that the EX1 has them, for $6000 US
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The EX1 also doesn't have a lot of things the 300 does have. You can't just say that one has bigger chips than another and therefore it should be more expensive; the EX1 doesn't have AVC-Intra, it doesn't have two HD-SDI output ports, it doesn't have an HD LCoS viewfinder, it doesn't have interchangeable lenses, etc...

It's my understanding that they didn't bother with 1/2" because they got the performance they wanted out of 1/3", and 1/3" is what was needed to hit the price point (making both the camera and the lenses less expensive).
 
Dino said:
... my 170/Ultimate/V2 Rods/Nikon 50mm all built up in a hand carry bag. Worked great on sticks, but not for hand-held, although I do have a shoulder mount and dual handles for the rods (can you say "front heavy"?).
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Yes I feel your pain! When I use my 28-80mm & Totevision LCD up front on the RedRock Shoulder Mount I also add an Anton Bauer Hytron (or two) as counter balance. But I have to take out extra insurance in case I wack someone in the head with the Hytron on the back end!

And yes the HPX170 flips the LCD, but the HPX300 Scan Reverse feature means that all the focus assists work, which is important for light weight adapter work.
 
Barry_Green said:
The EX1 also doesn't have a lot of things the 300 does have. You can't just say that one has bigger chips than another and therefore it should be more expensive; the EX1 doesn't have AVC-Intra, it doesn't have two HD-SDI output ports, it doesn't have an HD LCoS viewfinder, it doesn't have interchangeable lenses, etc...

It's my understanding that they didn't bother with 1/2" because they got the performance they wanted out of 1/3", and 1/3" is what was needed to hit the price point (making both the camera and the lenses less expensive).
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Either that, or they are behind in Cmos technology development. I do not know if Panasonic develops the Cmos technology themselves or outsources, but I know Sony certainly does, and this can be an answer to this generation of Sony cameras relative better performance to older generation Cmos models from themselves, like the v1u. This is just speculation from my side, of course. I'm sure the HPX300 is a great camera, and I certainly haven't been disappointed with recent Panasonic Camera gear. I'm curious to see what other users will find of this camera when its released. In theory (again), isn't the HPX competing in Chip size with Sony's other Shoulder mount camera? The HDV one? Low light and DOF should be comparable between these two. Obviously, Codec, motion rendering and compression should be way better on the Panasonic, but, software aside, they should perform at the same level, no?

Next month, it would be interesting to have an HPX300 v Sony S270U v EX3 v JVC 700. Everyone will have its pluses, and some we are expecting, like DOF advantage of the EX3 and the superior compression in the HPX300, but the other factors that are equally important, if not more so, like motion rendering, Skew, Variable frame rates rendition, 35mm adapters usability- this is fundamental in this range for cinematography aware Filmmakers/DOP's!- should make for an interesting article!

With recording modules like the Flash XDR, and continuously better 35mm adapters like the Letus Ultimate and relays from both Cinevate and Letus, these cameras are more and more competitive vs the game changing Red lineup. I would really like to see a comparison between these cameras, taking into consideration also the RED ONE, for cost effective indie film. Hope the Pro Video Coalition, Adam Wilt, Barry, or someone out there goes ahead and tries this!
 
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SPZ said:
...Sony Z7( is that the interchangeable lens model?)...
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The Z7 is one of them, but it's in the $5,500 range and is hand held. The one I think you're thinking about is the S270U, which is basically a Z7 in a shoulder mount package.
 
Mike Harvey said:
The Z7 is one of them, but it's in the $5,500 range and is hand held. The one I think you're thinking about is the S270U, which is basically a Z7 in a shoulder mount package.
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Yes, that was the one! Will change my original post.But I was with the impression there's some other interchangeable lens model in the z7 price range... Will check it out...

EDIT- Its the Z7- interchangeable lenses in an HVX form factor. I'm curious to see this in sensor performance vs the HPX300, for skew and rolling shutter issues. Just to test my theory about Cmos development between these 2 companies, and how this translate in real world shooting- and real world I include sports and fast motion shooting, like documentaries.
 
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I had a a Z5 and an EX1 and EX3 there when i saw the HPX300 this morning.. if there was more time (and no panasonic rep) i would have done some more tests.. need to test the Z5 has i have a client who needs to replace their Z1s and wants to know what to buy..

but im telling you know.. the skew i saw was freakin horrid, i really wish i was lying..
 
Joe Lawry said:
I had a a Z5 and an EX1 and EX3 there when i saw the HPX300 this morning.. if there was more time (and no panasonic rep) i would have done some more tests.. need to test the Z5 has i have a client who needs to replace their Z1s and wants to know what to buy..

but im telling you know.. the skew i saw was freakin horrid, i really wish i was lying..
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If you get a chance to test all of them again, do post your results, Joe. It would be interesting to see what you find! (seems like the place you where has everything, so probably you'll get a chance to test the JVC, HPX, Sony's there..)
 
This camera has been revealed for only a day and there are already pages of forum members arguing about the best 35mm adapter, jello-cam, etc.

It seems like this will be a very nice camera, with great images, a great codec and all but I think I'll stay with my trusty ol' HPX500. 35mm adapters? CMOS? No problems here.
 
Joe Lawry said:
I had a a Z5 and an EX1 and EX3 there when i saw the HPX300 this morning.. if there was more time (and no panasonic rep) i would have done some more tests.. need to test the Z5 has i have a client who needs to replace their Z1s and wants to know what to buy..

but im telling you know.. the skew i saw was freakin horrid, i really wish i was lying..
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The skew on which camera?

How hard could it really be to shoot around CMOS problems also? I have seen so much nice EX1 footage. I've seen skate vids. Specifically what kind of shots can't you do? Just super fast pans right?
 
The speed of the pan depends entirely on how far you're zoomed in. Skate videos are typically shot at full wide angle, and therefore they don't have a problem. But try zooming in to 100% and you'll see extreme skew even when panning at reasonable speeds.

The CMOS problems you have to worry about are:
1) rubber/jello, which happens when moving the camera *or* the subject at a rapid pace relative to the frame.

2) partial exposure from flashes - nothing you can do about that, it's just gonna happen. If it's occasional you can fix it in post by overlaying a white flash transition on the flash frame, but if you're looking at something like a boxing match or a press conference where hundreds of flashes are going off, that's going to be tedious or miserable to fix.

3) fluorescent/HMI lines: this is one you have to be careful of. If you're shooting under fluorescent or HMI/sodium vapor lights, then it's possible to get rolling/scrolling/waving lines in your footage. You have to either be using flicker-free lights with high-speed electronic ballasts, or you have to carefully monitor your shutter speed to match it to the light's frequency. Typically 1/60th (or perhaps 1/40th) in the USA, 1/50th overseas.

Some things you can't fix. If you need to shoot a telephoto shot from a camera hard-mounted on a mountain bike, it's going to be jello city and there's nothing you can do about it. If you're trying to pan across the New York skyline, the buildings are going to lean (unless you're at wide angle). If you're following horse racing or car racing and tracking with the car, the background is going to be skewed, and that's just what you have to live with when using CMOS. Or don't use CMOS, use CCD for those shots.
 
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