HPX300 Price!

AVC-intra is a full raster (at 100 Mbps per Barry's review), 4:2:2, 10 bit state of the art codec.

DVCPro HD is not full raster, 4:2:2, 8 bit existing codec.

The most obvious use improvement will be with chromakey work as the full raster and 10 bit color will really help the computer software pull a great key.

It is tough to say how much visually will show up as a difference as they are both 4:2:2 and one needs a 10 bit NLE to take advantage of the extra color information.

AVC-intra offers better image quality at half the memory space needed compared to DVCPro HD.

Hope this helps!
 
Paul Kramm.net said:
what is the difference between HPX500 and HPX300 besides the 2/3 chips.
I have a chance to buy a HPX500 for $7,ooo.
I'm going to try and use my 8.5 X 5.5 2/3 SD lens for now.
I really like the 2/3 chips for the lattitude and depth.

thanks, Paul
Click to expand...

Well the 300 is going to give you a sharper image on a better codec, nicer LCD and EVF, and a wireless mount, 2 x SDI v 1 on the 500.

The 500 will give you, better latitude, MUCH better DOF control, 4 independant XLR channels. 4 p2 card slots. Many many many many many more lens options (will you use them?)

Hmm thought - Im pretty sure the 300 is going to take the JVC propriety static 35mm adapter - oooooooh, thats interesting. That adapter is extremely sharp and light loss is 0.

Thats really the crux of it.
 
Im stealing here.

Over on CML the discussion is where this camera fits in terms of pro vs prosumer

Heres Adam Wilts last post in relation to this and the quote

> But in the end makes some fatal compromises.

Fatal is a mighty strong word!

> The 1/3" sensors are going to be diffraction-limited and less
> sensitive...

Diffraction-limited, sure. But not hugely more than on a 1920x1080
1/2" sensor. It means its sweet spot is around f/2.8-f/4. It's not
the end of the world by any means. If the MOS sensors really do have
the fill factor being promised, then I don't see any fundamental
reason why it shouldn't be possible to get clean, full-HD res images
out of the puppy--not at f/11, sure, but at wider apertures.

The EX1/EX3 use 1/2" sensors. In practice, I don't notice the depth
of field being substantially different than with 1/3" cameras; a bit
better, but not massively so (and I still worry about diffraction
limits when shooting with 1/2" chips). The EX3's recording media are
cheaper, but that's not a huge deal: both SxS and P2 are reusable
media, so it's really a one-time, initial pain.

Don't forget that the HVX300 offers AVC-I recording: full-raster,
4:2:2, 10-bit. That's a huge potential advantage if you need to push
the image around at all in post. And DVCPROHD is a much more get-it-
on-the-air-now-dammit newscaster-friendly codec than long-GOP MPEG-2.

I think the HPX300 is going to make things a LOT more interesting in
the affordable-HD market.

> Sony needs to make an EX-30, low-profile shoulder-held camera with
> EX3 guts.

They already do! But, alas, the EX30 is a tabletop deck for SxS
cards. Low profile, sure, and it has HD-SDI in, but it doesn't
balance on the shoulder any better than an EX3 does. ;-)

The other question, of course, is will Panasonic offer a handycam-
form-factor version with 1920x1080 MOS sensors and P2 AVC-I recording
for half the price.

Adam Wilt / filmmaker, Meets The Eye / writer,
provideocoalition.com / Mt View CA USA
Click to expand...
 
Noel Evans said:
Hmm thought - Im pretty sure the 300 is going to take the JVC propriety static 35mm adapter - oooooooh, thats interesting. That adapter is extremely sharp and light loss is 0.

Thats really the crux of it.
Click to expand...

Hello Noel,
have you got more info about this adapter?
thank you.

Guillaume
 
that adapter is locked at a 16mm-ish FOV. That means you're gonna need some wide-ass lenses to get wide shots. That's the reason I'm not interested. And, it only seems to sport a PL mount as well.

IMO the way to go would be Letus' EX-3 Relay mated to a 1/2" to 1/3" Bayonet adapter. You'd still get a wider FOV than the JVC adapter and you would have your choice of lens mounts instead of being locked into either or.

Rolling Shutter -- It is what it is.

AVC-Intra -- It's the cat's ass. The HPX3000 is nothing short of incredible and I'm willing to bet a significant portion of it's unfukwitable image quality is due in part to the AVC-Intra codec.

All that said, as excited as I am to pick an HPX300 up this March (hopefully before I go back to GA to visit!) I want to get my hands on one first. Regardless of what people say/think, I got burned on the HPX170 image. It wasn't what I liked about the HVX200A and still isn't.

So, I'm not putting my money down blindly on anything anymore.
 
puredrifting said:
Kholi:

Define "unfukwitable", I gotta know ;-)

D
Click to expand...

LOL. Can't be "F'd" with. But you knew that!

By the way, I saw your post considering picking up an HPX300 AND keeping your HPX170. PFFT. Hypocrite!!!

I'm gonna be posting some Letus Relay + HPX3000 and HPX500 footage soon. might get ya more excited about the possibilities. WEEEE
 
Noel Evans said:
Yes, I tend to agree. But they arent the same price. Add min $1k for a battery solution, at 18watts the cameras power consumption is good, but even so Id recommend at least 3 batteries to get you through a day
Click to expand...


Depends on the days shooting. I have had the camera on from about 9-1pm and still had battery left. Now I was not in record, but the guy I sent to Central park to shoot footage was very impressed with the battery life and he owns a 500, which is no slouch here either. And for you Noel, he is looking to add the HPG20 to his kit so that his 500 can shoot AVC-Intra. ;-) Sort of like the coolest AVC-Intra card out there.

Best,

Jan
 
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Jan_Crittenden said:
Depends on the days shooting. I have had the camera on from about 9-1pm and still had battery left. Now I was not in record, but the guy I sent to Central park to shoot footage was very impressed with the battery life and he owns a 500, which is no slouch here either. And for you Noel, he is looking to add the HPG20 to his kit so that his 500 can shoot AVC-Intra. ;-) Sort of like the coolest AVC-Intra card out there.

Best,

Jan
Click to expand...


Sorry, Jan, but I don't think you're hitting the spot with HPG20 and HPX500 combo, since HPX500's SDI output is only 8-bit, so there is no benefit in recording AVC-intra (as the resolution of this camcorder is limited by it's imagers).
 
13th Judas said:
it makes me sick aswell especially reading some posts of jan and barry with regards to this new HPX300. imagine how they dislike the rolling shutter issue of the EX. now they are singing a different tune: "if you know the limitation of cmos cameras, you'll be alright". MARKETING :(
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? I have said since day one that I don't like the rolling shutter, but that if someone is going to use it they better know the limitations. There are limitations that a rolling shutter imposes on you, and the introduction of the rolling shutter means that a shooter has to know more about what their camera does and how it works, and there are some shots that are going to be more difficult or even just not possible on a rolling shutter camera, vs. a CCD.

That's what I said in my first article published a couple of years ago, and it's what I say today.
 
Bassman2003 said:
Good points, but I still think larger chips do make a difference.
Click to expand...
Certainly.

And the jury is still out for on the 10 bit aspect of the AVC-intra codec.
Click to expand...
Why? 10-bit is better than 8 in all ways. I didn't know the jury was even deliberating?

If your NLE is 8 bit, (mine is - Edius), the 10 bit footage will be downsampled to 8 bit and the benefit of more color information will not have as much impact on your final delivered product.
Click to expand...
Apparently this is not true. EDIUS is apparently not limited to 10 bit in internal processing, only the hardware boards are limited to 8 bit on output. I've been told that EDIUS maintains the 10-bit nature of the footage throughout editing and if you were to export as an uncompressed timeline you'd get 10 bit. It's only CanopusHQ and the hardware boards that are limited to 8 bit.

I'd love to get some confirmation direct from Canopus about this.

I just wish we could get out of this 1/3" chip prodction rut that the industry is in imho. The list of 1/3" chip cameras released over the past four years is staggering.
Click to expand...
1/3" is the way things are going. Budgets are shrinking. When NBC chooses to use 1/3" cameras for all their owned & operated stations, you can be pretty sure that the day of outfitting everyone with huge 2/3" cameras is either over, or drawing to a close.
 
dan_Y said:
Sorry, Jan, but I don't think you're hitting the spot with HPG20 and HPX500 combo, since HPX500's SDI output is only 8-bit, so there is no benefit in recording AVC-intra (as the resolution of this camcorder is limited by it's imagers).
Click to expand...


Have you tried it? How do you know this for a fact? I think you might be resting on knowing the numbers and allowing the numbers to shade your thinking and not the reality where the benefit would most clearly be there. Have you seen the manipulation you can do to a 10Bit codec over an 8Bit codec in post? Don't say that it wouldn't help based on the numbers you know. If the resolution of the camera was the only thing, maybe, but frankly DVCPRO HD doesn't record all the resolution this camera has to offer. And 10 Bit in post is very much desired, especially when doing compositing and green screen.

Why do you think when we do camera and codec comparisons we take them to a higher level? It is alwys better to go higher than to stay at the same level or lower.

Best,

Jan
 
Jan, are you saying that the HPX500 + HPG20 + Avid Media Composer would make the 500 an even more potent content machine? I'd be glad to volunteer the time in my studio to do a full on comparison between my current set-up of edting DVCPro HD in Vegas and the above mentioned combination and then present my results on DVXuser.

I could do interview, talking head, outdoor, and chroma key shots all in one place with professional lighting and then pull the footage into Vegas and Avid and edit away. I've even got the Boris FX (Red & Blue) progams for doing compositing, titles and effects in Vegas so I could compare the results to Boris FX plug-ins in Avid.

I think I'm pretty representative of the type of person on this forum. I've been shooting an HVX and now an HPX500 as well for over two years and have developed my independent production company around P2. I just rented my own building for a studio in November and now have a place to call home. I make enough to pay the rent, credit cards, contractors, and occassionally, myself. I'd buy an HPG20 in a heartbeat if I thought I could get better performance out of both my cameras. Not to mention all the other benefits that come with the unit.

Thanks for your presence on this board. Even though we're not big fish in the Panasonic Sea, it's nice to be treated like we are!
 
Ducatimark,

I'd be interested in your findings as also yours Jan. I have an Avid, no Vegas but also Edius, if you need any help let me know.
 
ChipG -

Where are you located? I've been looking to add Avid and now with the ability to natively edit AVC-Intra it only heightens my interest in both the HPG20 and Media Composer. I can always just send footage to you if we can get an HPG20....
 
I'm in KC but my time will be split 50-50 between LA & KC soon. PM me if you want to send me footage just don't load me down with too much :)
 
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Intra board for HPX-500

Intra board for HPX-500

If Panasonic can put this board in a 8500.00 camera ( 300) How about a board for HPX -500 users on the front edge of P2. We did 20,000 in the early P2 days. Intra should be backwards compatible for HPX-500 users.
 
the hpx500 can actually resolve a more. try shooting some PAL dvcpro hd which has 1440H pixels.
what i can do is to capture dnx220 10bit in avid symphony and record dvcpro hd on P2.
avc-intra in avid is amazing.
 
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