HPX170 - A Second Look

puredrifting, I'm saying this with respect, BUT ARE YOU NUTS!!!!! he he he, buy a EX-1 if i want switchability, no way,

To me the HVX, and probably the HPX too is THEE camera to have for shot movies, and what not...

All the others aren't bad, but I personaly feel the look you get, and not to mention DvcProHD codec panasonic uses, at this point can not be beaten in that price range,

IN SHORT, please panasonic make the camera switchable, even if it is a factory upgrade for extra cost, we will pay!!!

thanks,
Derrick
 
yeah, actually EX3 will be a very very nice contender indeed just that it sucks to have to mix p2 with sxs.

puredrifting said:
I believe that Jan has already stated that the camera will not be switchable. What was still being contemplated was making the switchability available as an extra cost service center mod.

A lot of people want that but Panasonic has their reasons for not taking the same route as Sony. Not saying I agree with it but if it bugs you too much, buy an EX-1, right? ;-)

Dan
Click to expand...
 
Derrick_SA said:
puredrifting, I'm saying this with respect, BUT ARE YOU NUTS!!!!! he he he, buy a EX-1 if i want switchability, no way,

To me the HVX, and probably the HPX too is THEE camera to have for shot movies, and what not...

All the others aren't bad, but I personaly feel the look you get, and not to mention DvcProHD codec panasonic uses, at this point can not be beaten in that price range,

IN SHORT, please panasonic make the camera switchable, even if it is a factory upgrade for extra cost, we will pay!!!

thanks,
Derrick
Click to expand...

But what are you going to do if the camera is not switchable and there is no factory modification offered?

Dan
 
Hey Guys and Gals.. My first post. Just had my DVX 100B take a poop at a wedding this weekend and the repair guy said he has to replace the whole tape desk. ouch!!! $900. Anyway, made me realize I need a back up camera so here I am looking into the near future. The 170 looks amazing. So did I read some where it take SD cards as well as P2 cards? I was looking at the 150 as well. That takes SD cards but not P2 right? Is there any difference in the two cards other then price?

So does, the 150 take SD cards? Also, what is the SDI out for?

Thanks all,

b.p.
 
The HPX170 doesn't record to SD cards, only to P2 cards. The SD card is for saving scene files etc. You can connect a monitor over SDI or record an uncompressed signal to a computer (you need some kind of capture card that has SDI in).
 
you'll probably be best of with the HMC150, longer record times are a lot more affordable on the SD cards. and for event recording the camera will do very well.

if you have the cash for a 170 and P2 cards, by all means, it's an awesome camera.

- Derrick
 
HPX-product line low -rez proxy questions

HPX-product line low -rez proxy questions

Amazing article I had a few questions for Barry or anyone else that might be able to answer?
I recently did a test of the EX-1 and the HVX200. The EX records low- rez SD-proxy footage that can be linked with and associated to the hi-rez HD footage. This allows SD streaming in post environments in which multiple users may be accessing the on-line footage concurrently.

I have researched that the HPX2000-3000 record a low rez proxy that post houses have been able to use as a pre render- edit until the render of a master needs to be submitted.

Does anyone know if the HPX-170 will be capable of doing the same?

I run a camera/tech dept that is an all Panasonic house. We are facing a dilemma with the P2 workflow and the post dept has asked me to look into it for them. They have 32 FCP edit bays in which the end user is able to access multiple data streams simultaneously. The P2 footage is a big problem during the on-line edit process because of the large data footprint required for P2 (DVC PRO HD codec) to scrub through the timeline via proxies are less processor intensive. Currently they must convert the footage using the H.264 quicktime codec but then must create and edit a new project and convert to DVC-PROHD for the final mixdown.

Barry do you know if Panasonic has any plans to incorporate low-rez proxies across their whole product line? vs. just the high end hpx2000-3000 models?

Thanks
 
Hi at this point in time the boards and onboard processors ar still a little big to fit into a small camera. So unfortunately for now the answer is no the small cameras do not have this.

Best,

jan
 
Thank you Jan for the update

Thank you Jan for the update

Thank you Jan for answering this for me. I wonder how Sony's EX-1 is capable of it???maybe it is the long GOP XD-cam format? It could be the SxS cards are able to hold proxie info with the GOP compression?......this is disappointing news as we will be upgrading our army of DVX100B's and I was hopeing the the HPX170 would be the answer for us. :-(

In case anyone is interested in the HVX200 comparison I posted on vimeo.

Barry sorry to deviate from the thread a bit but this puts a big whole in my plan to recommend to my CEO the purchase of 20 HPX170's. I guess I'll be looking to Sony since our bandwidth issues are not going to go away anytime soon.
 
sylvanimate said:
Thank you Jan for answering this for me. I wonder how Sony's EX-1 is capable of it???maybe it is the long GOP XD-cam format? It could be the SxS cards are able to hold proxie info with the GOP compression?.......
Click to expand...

I was not aware that the SxS does proxy either, I will have to check it out on Monday. I am looking at a folder made with the EX1, perhaps you are looking at the video file itself. It identifies it self to the outside as MPEG4, but that is the wrapper, not the content. I mean the difference between the EX1 and the DVCPRO HD is about 65Mbs. Their video file looks much smaller.

And with the EX1 you will have the rolling shutter and long gop issues. And if you are working any kind of news, keep in mind that there is no pre-record, nor is there the ability to go from review a couple of clips to record without a power-down and power-up.

Additionally the ability to put in metadata of any concrete nature is also not possible on the SxS camera.

Getting proxies on the small cameras is challenging, but you can make them in post.

Best,

Jan
 
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Aligned CCD oh please oh please?

Aligned CCD oh please oh please?

I saw someone asked this in the "First Look" thread, so I'll add it here for completeness' sake: any chance Panasonic will be paying more attention to the CCD centering with the lens this time around? I love my HVX200 but have finally proven that the skew is what is preventing me from getting a clean image through my M2/MicroX. Yes, I have vignetting on the left side like everyone else.

I may well have to sell this camera and get something else. But I like everything else about the camera, so the HPX170 would be a perfect replacement... as long as they promise to actually line the parts up properly this time. Obviously testing that on this early prototype is of no real value as far as production cameras go... but anyone with contacts inside the company manage to get some acknowledgement that they recognized the problem with the 200 and will be addressing it with this one? (I can understand why even if that's the case, they wouldn't be touting it in the literature...)

Duncan
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
I was not aware that the SxS does proxy either, I will have to check it out on Monday. I am looking at a folder made with the EX1, perhaps you are looking at the video file itself. It identifies it self to the outside as MPEG4, but that is the wrapper, not the content. I mean the difference between the EX1 and the DVCPRO HD is about 65Mbs. Their video file looks much smaller.

And with the EX1 you will have the rolling shutter and long gop issues. And if you are working any kind of news, keep in mind that there is no pre-record, nor is there the ability to go from review a couple of clips to record without a power-down and power-up.

Additionally the ability to put in metadata of any concrete nature is also not possible on the SxS camera.

Getting proxies on the small cameras is challenging, but you can make them in post.

Best,

Jan
Click to expand...
Jan, I have misspoken the EX-1 footage creates a proxy within the XDcam browser not on camera. I figured this out last night while talking on the HVX-200 forum.
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
And if you are working any kind of news, keep in mind that there is no pre-record, nor is there the ability to go from review a couple of clips to record without a power-down and power-up.
Click to expand...

This is not true. You can set the preview button to display all of the previously recorded clip. Record, stop, hit the preview button, start watching your clip, and if you need to start recording hit the record button. The camera will stop displaying the previously recorded clip. Hit record again and you're recording. All of this can be done without switching from the Record mode to the Display mode - no power-down/power-up necessary.
 
frobozz said:
I saw someone asked this in the "First Look" thread, so I'll add it here for completeness' sake: any chance Panasonic will be paying more attention to the CCD centering with the lens this time around? I love my HVX200 but have finally proven that the skew is what is preventing me from getting a clean image through my M2/MicroX. Yes, I have vignetting on the left side like everyone else.

I may well have to sell this camera and get something else. But I like everything else about the camera, so the HPX170 would be a perfect replacement... as long as they promise to actually line the parts up properly this time. Obviously testing that on this early prototype is of no real value as far as production cameras go... but anyone with contacts inside the company manage to get some acknowledgement that they recognized the problem with the 200 and will be addressing it with this one? (I can understand why even if that's the case, they wouldn't be touting it in the literature...)

Duncan
Click to expand...

This issue must be addressed for the new camera to have credibility with the 24P Cinema crowd. There are two basic groups of users, those using the camera as-it-is, and those using adaptors for a cinematic look. Not addressing the centering issue will cause the adaptor group to shop elsewhere so they can produce proper images. That's just how it is. It's the end of July, it's late in the game. What path will Panasonic choose?
 
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Jan_Crittenden said:
And with the EX1 you will have the rolling shutter and long gop issues.
Click to expand...

No, you don't HAVE to have long GOP issues. But while you're mentioning it, do you have any XDCam footage from real-world shooting that shows the long GOP issue? I keep hearing about it, and yet I keep seeing pro shooters bringing back jaw-dropping footage of news, action, and cinematic elements with nary a problem.

Seems like a red herring to me, but if you have evidence to the contrary, I'd really like to see it.
 
And with the EX1 you will have the rolling shutter and long gop issues.
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Jan, with all due respect I keep hearing this from you (and Barry) and others. You "will" have rolling shutter and long gop issues? I'm just saying this from experience, not heresay, that after many dozens of hours of handheld shooting I have yet to having rolling shutter issues. Why would you say this? Is it 'possible' to have rolling shutter issues? I'm sure it is. I would say being around lots of close-range full-frame flashes will probably trigger some rolling shutter issues, but trust me, you must, the EX1 doesn't go around skewing and wobbling like some of you, for some odd reason, imply it does/should/will. It simply doesn't. I've shaken the thing while recording, I've panned faster than I'll ever use for footage, and I'm not seeing this horrendous skew you keep talking about.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't care if you think this way (I mean, the way you talk about the EX1 I'm assuming it's part of your job to dismiss CMOS and promote CCD, which is fine, you're a rep), but I honestly hate to see people who are honestly seeking non-biased information come away thinking that the EX1 will shoot jello-vision and skew like a drunken sailor (no offense to drunken sailors). It's just not the case. I think highly of Panasonic and their cameras, they're great, and I like CCD-based cameras, I don't care about brand names nor do I care that Sony makes the EX1... I just know the EX1 is fantastic (so is the HVX - I'm not biased) and from many hours of shooting handheld running footage, I can attest with all honesty that skewing and wobble and these CMOS horrors you speak of are not even minutely the issue you make them to be. I would've taken my EX1 back in a heartbeat if that were the case. I didn't buy my EX1 because it's "Sony", I could care less. If Panasonic made it, or Canon or JVC or Kellogg's, I would've bought it just the same. I use my EX1 in field conditions and I would not put up with any problematic skewing or wobble if I saw it. That's the God's honest truth.

I don't say this to persuade anyone to go with the EX1. I don't care what people end up choosing. All these cameras are great and you'll be happy with any of them... there are some slight pros and cons to each, but they're all great. For those reading this who are contemplating a new purchase, just know these CMOS and Long Gop horror stories are way overblown (perhaps barring the full-frame flash issues if you do a lot of that kind of stuff). People would be returning these EX1's all over the place if they displayed these problems as stated here. Rock-n-roll, baby.
 
jpsheets said:
I've used the RedRock M2 with my HVX since it came out and never had this problem.
Click to expand...

It's trivial to "zoom past this problem" which is the usual advice to anyone complaining about it. But I'm a wide angle lens fanatic, so I'm pretty picky about getting the full view angle out of my lenses.

I've spent a lot of time analyzing and adjusting my rig to try to get the full view angle. With so many adjustable points on the M2 and MicroX, it leaves an infinite number of ways to set it up wrong and cause similar or worse problems... to which the advice is always to zoom in farther! But I worked through all that, and got a stunningly sharp, wide, clear image exactly like I wanted... except for that (*&^%%$%^^& dark left edge. After quite a bit of time spent trying to figure out what M2 or MicroX adjustment was needed to get rid of it, I finally proved it was the misaligned HVX sensor.

http://www.vimeo.com/1408867

http://www.vimeo.com/1408880

So yeah, it's possible to get great results with an M2 and misaligned HVX200, as long as you don't mind all your lenses being some significant percentage longer effective focal length. I was hoping for better.

Duncan
 
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