Ed Kishel
Veteran
My problem....
After Sony updated Vegas Pro 8 to version C with Pana AVCHD support, I upgraded once I got the 150. The good thing is that .mts files import nicely and yes Vegas can edit these files natively, the bad thing is that it's still rough around the edges IMO. I know it will improve with time (like HDV did) but I'm an American and I want it NOW
I knew going in to the 150 purchase that AVCHD was a tough nut to crack for NLEs and for CPUs in general, but even straight cuts in Vegas still show a frame lag when moving from one clip to the next. That’s right; plain Jane straight cuts hang for about 4-5 frames between clips. The GOP thing again I guess....
And my machine should handle it fine: Core 2 Quad 9450, 4 GB DDR3, Geforce 9600GT 1GB DDR3, 2.5 TB SATA II storage, XP SP3. Its no render farm on loan from Pixar, but it's no slouch either. I built it with editing HD in mind. Sure, I figured filters, color correction, and the like would slow it down a bit- but when straight cuts have lag its hard to QA your cuts (and this is with preview quality set to basic-auto).
Now of course there are transcoding options to make it play nice, like to DVCProHD via Panasonic's free app for example. But that not only takes more storage to accommodate the new version, but more importantly it adds a generational loss for the added compression. Once for transcoding and then again for the final render.
Cineform and MainConcept plugins are a good option, but that will set you back another $400-600 or more!
Like most others I want to go from native footage, to final render, with no compressions in the middle. Vegas can do this, but the fact is AVCHD pushes its limits- and the ease of editing DV25 seems like a luxury now. To many little hang-ups pulls me out of what used to be a pleasure for me, editing video. Ah, the good 'ol days of SD.
What worked for me......
Many of you probably have heard of the Vegas script GearShift from Vasst:
http://vasst.com/product.aspx?id=5830e4f9-d99b-4d0b-908d-aa4954c324a3
It was created back when Vegas 5 had trouble handling HDV. Nowadays, almost all NLEs can handle HDV on a basic machine without much trouble at all, at least from what I have seen and read. But recently Vasst updated GearShift to v1.7 for Vegas 8 Pro.
Now it handles AVCHD files by creating an SD (or other HD intermediates if you choose) proxy file from the original clip and letting you edit the proxy file instead. Its as easy as editing DV. And when you are finished with your edit, you can switch (or shift gears as its called by Vasst) back to the AVCHD .mts files before your final render.
For me it has given my Vegas workflow the best of both worlds: editing with the ease of a DV25 .avi in SD, and then being able to render from the native HD files. The workaround is pretty simple:
1) Open Vegas 8 Pro and create a project that matches your original footage (the native AVCHD files). Mine is HD 1920x1080 24p.
2) Start up Gearshift, and import the .mts files from the hard disc location where it is stored. Select which proxy you want- mine was NTSC DV Widescreen 24p
3) Click on OK. The script then automates the tasks of creating SD files that will be used temporarily until you are ready to render.
4) Edit as normal- titles, filters, audio editing- just like when I first got my DVX100A. Its SD editing and very low impact on the computer, on my machine everyone plays nicely together with no hang-ups or lags. True, the SD proxies are scaled to fit the HD project file, but they still look great for this temp editing.
5) When your finished editing, open up GearShift again and "shift gears"- all the SD clips are replaced with the native .mts files keeping all the edits, transitions, filters, and corrections/adjustments.
6) One last QA, and its time to go to the final render. If you need any last minute changes you can do it in either version, your AVCHD edit or the Proxy edit. Just remember, the AVCHD edit is the one you will do your final HD render from.
And that’s it, in the end you get an AVCHD edit but with the ease of SD editing. Why do you HAVE to edit the native files, when what's important is that you use the native files before your final render right? If you're afraid that your adjustments or filters won't look the same on the .mts clips, just preview them during step #6. It wont play back as smooth, but you're only looking at it to make sure your adjustments are correct. The proxy edit is for previewing the cuts. So is that it, all Vegas users with the HMC150 should get it right? Maybe, read on...
Cons.....
A useful tool for Vegas users, yes. But it does have its drawbacks. It also take additional storage for the proxy files, and these files are bigger than the .mts original (the proxy is roughly 40% more). My 750MB 5 min .mts file cloned a 1.2GB DV .avi So the low file size advantage of AVCHD goes out the window. For me this isn’t too bothersome as storage is so insanely cheap. If need be I pick up another terabyte for $130 no big whoop
Also once you click on OK to start the process you have to wait for Vegas to render all the proxy files, so this adds time. For me this was very quick- the 5 min 720p .mts file above took about 4.5 minutes to proxy. Almost real-time.
The selection of proxies is OK, not great. I wish there was more choices and the option to adjust the compression to create smaller proxies.
Of more concern to some is this: what if there is some problem and it doesn’t "shift" correctly? Do I have to re-edit the entire project with the .mts files? Yes and no- what I do is each night I "shift" to the AVCHD edit and save that as a backup. I will do this as Gearshift has freezed Vegas up a couple times (recovered fine- but it did happen)
So in sum.....
Those of us who bought the 150 are brave "first adopters" of a professional level AVCHD format. With that distinction, comes the headache of stumbling through its workflow until it smoothes out like HDV/DVCProHD has. For me it has really helped out, and made editing AVCHD less of a chore. It's not perfect, but it beats stumbling though editing this cumbersome format with its stutters and lags. And $50 doesn’t break the bank.
After Sony updated Vegas Pro 8 to version C with Pana AVCHD support, I upgraded once I got the 150. The good thing is that .mts files import nicely and yes Vegas can edit these files natively, the bad thing is that it's still rough around the edges IMO. I know it will improve with time (like HDV did) but I'm an American and I want it NOW
I knew going in to the 150 purchase that AVCHD was a tough nut to crack for NLEs and for CPUs in general, but even straight cuts in Vegas still show a frame lag when moving from one clip to the next. That’s right; plain Jane straight cuts hang for about 4-5 frames between clips. The GOP thing again I guess....
And my machine should handle it fine: Core 2 Quad 9450, 4 GB DDR3, Geforce 9600GT 1GB DDR3, 2.5 TB SATA II storage, XP SP3. Its no render farm on loan from Pixar, but it's no slouch either. I built it with editing HD in mind. Sure, I figured filters, color correction, and the like would slow it down a bit- but when straight cuts have lag its hard to QA your cuts (and this is with preview quality set to basic-auto).
Now of course there are transcoding options to make it play nice, like to DVCProHD via Panasonic's free app for example. But that not only takes more storage to accommodate the new version, but more importantly it adds a generational loss for the added compression. Once for transcoding and then again for the final render.
Cineform and MainConcept plugins are a good option, but that will set you back another $400-600 or more!
Like most others I want to go from native footage, to final render, with no compressions in the middle. Vegas can do this, but the fact is AVCHD pushes its limits- and the ease of editing DV25 seems like a luxury now. To many little hang-ups pulls me out of what used to be a pleasure for me, editing video. Ah, the good 'ol days of SD.
What worked for me......
Many of you probably have heard of the Vegas script GearShift from Vasst:
http://vasst.com/product.aspx?id=5830e4f9-d99b-4d0b-908d-aa4954c324a3
It was created back when Vegas 5 had trouble handling HDV. Nowadays, almost all NLEs can handle HDV on a basic machine without much trouble at all, at least from what I have seen and read. But recently Vasst updated GearShift to v1.7 for Vegas 8 Pro.
Now it handles AVCHD files by creating an SD (or other HD intermediates if you choose) proxy file from the original clip and letting you edit the proxy file instead. Its as easy as editing DV. And when you are finished with your edit, you can switch (or shift gears as its called by Vasst) back to the AVCHD .mts files before your final render.
For me it has given my Vegas workflow the best of both worlds: editing with the ease of a DV25 .avi in SD, and then being able to render from the native HD files. The workaround is pretty simple:
1) Open Vegas 8 Pro and create a project that matches your original footage (the native AVCHD files). Mine is HD 1920x1080 24p.
2) Start up Gearshift, and import the .mts files from the hard disc location where it is stored. Select which proxy you want- mine was NTSC DV Widescreen 24p
3) Click on OK. The script then automates the tasks of creating SD files that will be used temporarily until you are ready to render.
4) Edit as normal- titles, filters, audio editing- just like when I first got my DVX100A. Its SD editing and very low impact on the computer, on my machine everyone plays nicely together with no hang-ups or lags. True, the SD proxies are scaled to fit the HD project file, but they still look great for this temp editing.
5) When your finished editing, open up GearShift again and "shift gears"- all the SD clips are replaced with the native .mts files keeping all the edits, transitions, filters, and corrections/adjustments.
6) One last QA, and its time to go to the final render. If you need any last minute changes you can do it in either version, your AVCHD edit or the Proxy edit. Just remember, the AVCHD edit is the one you will do your final HD render from.
And that’s it, in the end you get an AVCHD edit but with the ease of SD editing. Why do you HAVE to edit the native files, when what's important is that you use the native files before your final render right? If you're afraid that your adjustments or filters won't look the same on the .mts clips, just preview them during step #6. It wont play back as smooth, but you're only looking at it to make sure your adjustments are correct. The proxy edit is for previewing the cuts. So is that it, all Vegas users with the HMC150 should get it right? Maybe, read on...
Cons.....
A useful tool for Vegas users, yes. But it does have its drawbacks. It also take additional storage for the proxy files, and these files are bigger than the .mts original (the proxy is roughly 40% more). My 750MB 5 min .mts file cloned a 1.2GB DV .avi So the low file size advantage of AVCHD goes out the window. For me this isn’t too bothersome as storage is so insanely cheap. If need be I pick up another terabyte for $130 no big whoop
Also once you click on OK to start the process you have to wait for Vegas to render all the proxy files, so this adds time. For me this was very quick- the 5 min 720p .mts file above took about 4.5 minutes to proxy. Almost real-time.
The selection of proxies is OK, not great. I wish there was more choices and the option to adjust the compression to create smaller proxies.
Of more concern to some is this: what if there is some problem and it doesn’t "shift" correctly? Do I have to re-edit the entire project with the .mts files? Yes and no- what I do is each night I "shift" to the AVCHD edit and save that as a backup. I will do this as Gearshift has freezed Vegas up a couple times (recovered fine- but it did happen)
So in sum.....
Those of us who bought the 150 are brave "first adopters" of a professional level AVCHD format. With that distinction, comes the headache of stumbling through its workflow until it smoothes out like HDV/DVCProHD has. For me it has really helped out, and made editing AVCHD less of a chore. It's not perfect, but it beats stumbling though editing this cumbersome format with its stutters and lags. And $50 doesn’t break the bank.
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