How to use wireless lavs?

That's the tutorial I'd have suggested for you. It's not really complicated. You just need to make sure you have a clear channel for your area, and that the levels on both transmitter and receiver are set properly to avoid distortion (signal too hot) or noise (signal too low).

What kind of device will you be using to record? Straight into the camera? If so, which camera? Separate audio recorder (and which one)?
 
Straight into the camera. Canon HV20. Two people interview. Two mics. Maybe I'm gonna use two or three cameras. I own only a shotgun mic, but maybe I could somehow use it too.
 
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I've not used the HV20, so I don't know what the audio limitations are outside of having only the 1/8" mic input. You'll want to make sure that AGC is off (if that's an option). Gain staging is the key here, which means making sure that every place where sound level can be set, is set properly. Get your levels right on the transmitter first, then set the AF Out on the receiver along with the camera's manual audio levels. You'll want to the receiver's output to be calibrated so that it's sending as strong a signal to the camera as possible without getting too close to clipping the pre-amps (this is something the meters on the camera won't tell you), which will allow you to keep the camera's level setting down to minimize noise from the pre-amps.
 
That's actually a pretty good little tutorial, and if anything, it over-simplifies the business of finding a good open channel for running your mics. If you actually sit down with the equipment and go step by step through that procedure, it won't seem quite as mysterious and complicated, I think. You really do need to do all those adjustments to get good quality results out of these mics, so I wouldn't want to try to simplify things a lot further. Basically, you are (1) finding an open channel and setting both transmitter and receiver to work on it; (2) setting the input sensitivity at the transmitter to match your microphone and voice; and (3) setting the audio output level at the receiver to match your camera/recorder.

- Greg
 
It sounds more simple now, thanks :) The guy from the youtube video says "dont put the lav mic on the collar"... but what if somebody wears t-shirt?
 
hellboy80 said:
Two people interview. Two mics. Maybe I'm gonna use two or three cameras. I own only a shotgun mic, but maybe I could somehow use it too.
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You added that while I was posting my first reply. You're going to need some adapting to get two receivers into one camera, unless you decide to record one mic to each camera. This is where XLR converter boxes (JuicedLink or Beachtek) really come in handy. If you're sending both mics to one camera, be sure to record them to separate channels so that you can have complete control over the mix when you edit. There's no sense in mixing the two mics down during production and locking yourself into problems that you cannot fix later.

Also, please don't neglect Audio Rule #1: Monitor while you record, or, get good headphones... and use them. After all, you don't shoot without watching the LCD monitor or viewfinder, do you? You're using wireless systems, so they're likely to fail at some point due to an RF hit or dropout, and you need to know when that happens so you can ask the question again and get a clean answer.
 
hellboy80 said:
It sounds more simple now, thanks :) The guy from the youtube video says "dont put the lav mic on the collar"... but what if somebody wears t-shirt?
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I've never been a fan of placing the lav that low. I know folks who do it, but the middle of the sternum is a bit more accurate (the difference is only about 3", but it does make a difference). Especially if you're interviewing two people, clipping the lavs lower down can cause phasing issues.

If the interviewee is wearing a t-shirt, then you're going to be clipping it higher. The other solution there is to bury the mic by adhering it underneath the shirt, but that's not something you want to get into until you've practiced a bit. Burying the lav in wardrobe can cause a plethora of issues that will drive you crazy if you don't know what you're doing.
 
One mic to each camera would be probably better way, right? And I could also record my own shotgun mic into the third camera. I will be using PluralEyes for synchronizing all three shots in the post.

(Unfortunately, XLR converter boxes are out of my budget)
 
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Well, you could record the shotgun to the third camera, but why? Unless it is hard-wired to the camera, extended to a stand or boom pole, and mounted overhead of the interviewees, there's nothing the shotgun will record that will be of use. This does bring up another topic, though: whenever you're able, use a cable. Is there a reason you feel the need to go wireless? If it's a seated interview without any movement, why not just put a shotgun (or hypercardioid) overhead... even one mic for each person, recorded separately... or use wired lavs? Wireless can cause problems, and wired mics always sound better because they don't have to go through companders and RF transmission.
 
Alex H. said:
Well, you could record the shotgun to the third camera, but why?
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Only for a sync reference (I will be syncing the shots with PluralEyes).

Yes, it will be a seated interview. I was considering using only my shotgun mic (Rode NTG2), but I have only one and I dont know if it could be used with two people without moving the mic between them (that could be hard). I never tried it this way. Do you think it could be done? I have a boompole, but I dont have a stand for it.
I could rent Sennheiser Evolution G2/G3 set from a acquaintance of my friend, but yeah, maybe I could use only the lavs. I probably would need to buy some extending cables :)
 
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I'm the guy in the video. Sorry for making it so complicated. You should see the manual. :) After trying to explain how to set these wireless up on the forums and via phone, I thought, hey, we make videos, why not make a video that helps people set up their wireless? It worked. Lots of positive/thankful comments on YouTube. I've actually had customers tell me that they called Sennheiser tech support only to be told to "watch the video on YouTube". I think that's the highest compliment one could receive is when the manufacturer even refers people to your work.

The big question I have for you is the same as Alex's question, "Why go wireless on a stationary interview?" You leave yourself wide open for a learning curve of set-up and also potential RF hits. Unless the person is moving about, go hardwired. I carry not only the Sennheiser wireless, but a little adapter which allow the Sennheiser mics to be converted over to XLR. It's called the Sennheiser MZA 900P. This allows my old lav mics to be converted (still have Countryman B6's, MKE-2's and Sanken COS11's wired for Sennheiser 3.5mm lockable). Nowadays I also pack around the RODE Pin Mic and stick it through t-shirts and can switch connectors with their $20-30 screw on Micon connectors. The PinMic is a good value. I also like the Sanken COS11D with the vampire clip for t-shirts.

 
Your video is the best I found on the internet and definitely more comprehensible then manual. I dont ment to criticise you :) I just dont know anything about radio frequencies, so I was little bit puzzled by all of the stuff (because i dont have it in my hands yet), but it probably is not so complicated :)

Ok, I could use wired solution, but its possible to connect the lav mics from the Sennheiser Evolution series to the camera with 3.5mm jack input (and withou phantom power)? What cable should I use? Or do I need a special wired lav mic to do that? (because I can borrow only the Sennheiser ENG set)
 
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hellboy80 said:
Your video is the best I found on the internet and definitely more comprehensible then manual. I dont ment to criticise you :) I just dont know anything about radio frequencies, so I was little bit puzzled by all of the stuff (because i dont have it in my hands yet), but it probably is not so complicated :)

Ok, I could use wired solution, but its possible to connect the lav mics from the Sennheiser Evolution series to the camera with 3.5mm jack input (and withou phantom power)? What cable should I use? Or do I need a special wired lav mic to do that? (because I can borrow only the Sennheiser ENG set)
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No offense taken. I see how one can watch and think it's overly complicated. Heck even "Tay Zonday" (the guy who hit 66million views of his video "Chocolate rain") commented on that tutorial video stating that it was "overly complicated". Well, it is what it is. Simple wireless is not "Frequency Agile" meaning, there is no ability to adjust the frequency. You can get simple wireless like the Audio Technica Pro88 cheap - and it actually sounds great, the problem is that when you do get interference, you do not have an option of simply switching to a clear channel. This gear was made for professionals and professional features sometimes call for putting on your geeky propeller hat, diggin' in deep and taking the time to learn. Even my own best friend and I recently had this conversation, he's just picked up a 7D and borrowed a Sennheiser wireless for a shoot -expecting to just turn it on and have it work and frustrated that I wouldn't spend an hour to go over it with him- I finally gave him a hardwired Pin Mic instead... so I totally relate to your pain. Ask me to change a clutch on a car and yeah, I could eventually figure it out...it's just gonna take awhile. Same thing here, if ya wanna do it yourself instead of having someone else do it, it's gonna take time, patience and a desire to want to learn it inside and out.


So....one more note....the ME2 lavalier mic which is included with the Sennheiser wireless kits has a *lockable* 3.5mm connector. It may or may not play well with your camera. The lav requires around 5 Volts of plug-in power. Most consumer/prosumer camera's with an 3.5mm input will supply this power, as will most small pocket audio recorders. The 2nd issue is going to be that the locking connector may not fit snuggly and pop off or provide a loose connection. Just be aware.

I made this video for a customer that was on the phone and couldn't visualize why the locking connector wouldn't fit...


And again, if you want to convert the Sennheiser ME2 to use with XLR you will need the $124 MZA 900 which takes 48v phantom power and brings it down to plug-in power levels. It's a pricey little device, but has saved the day for many folks.

http://www.sennheiserusa.com/serviceandsupport_part-finder_adapters_500226

MZA900P.jpg
 
Thanks for the reply! Very helpful. So only thing I need is the ME2 lav mic and some kind of extension cord (and I could modify the cable for better compatibility with that lockable connector)? (My cameras doesnt have XLR inputs). I could try it if it supplies the 5V power.
 
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hellboy80 said:
Thanks for the reply! Very helpful. So only thing I need is the ME2 lav mic and some kind of extension cord? (My cameras doesnt have XLR inputs). I could try it if it supplies the 5V power.
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Well, if you want the audio of two people to sound the same, you're going to want two of the same lavs. Putting a simple 3.5mm "Y cable" to split two ME2 lavs is asking for trouble (because of the plug-in power). Also, using an unbalanced extension cable may introduce hum and buzz. Are you using two of the exact HV20 cameras? Maybe you could put one lav to each camera...man, this is getting complicated for a no budget project. Time to start checking your friend list and seeing if you can pull in someone with gear to help out!

Just for kicks, I'll test it here for you since I have the ability.

Using this Hosa Y cable: http://www.dvestore.com/products/HOSA-"Y"-Cable-6".html

ymm-261__95827_zoom.jpg


And two of these 10' extension cables http://www.dvestore.com/products/RODE-VC1-10'-Extension-cable.html

vc1__46947_zoom.jpg


going into a $99 Zoom H1.

I get....















good results.
 
Well, it will be just a short interview, nothing big :) The second camera will be probably some other camera than HV20. So should I use the splitter or rather not? :)
 
hellboy80 said:
Well, it will be just a short interview, nothing big :) The second camera will be probably some other camera than HV20. So should I use the splitter or rather not? :)
Click to expand...

It would be much easier in post to have both mic tracks on the same camera.

One other quick thought in regards to using the full Sennheiser wireless in your scenario. Depending on the quality of the mic pres on the HV20, the wireless system *could* actually make the sound better. How? The Receiver has the AF OUT setting in the Menu, which cleanly boosts the loudness of the Output. Yes, the receiver acts like a clean pre-amp.

What does this mean to you? If the ME2 lav fed directly into the HV20 is noisy/hissy, sending it through the Sennheiser wireless may actually improve the sound because the cameras audio section is not having to work very hard to boost the levels up, the receiver is actually doing it.

I have found this to often be the case on consumer/prosumer cameras with 3.5mm MIC inputs. Even though you would think that it would not be the case due to wireless' companding and expanding (packing and unpacking) the audio.

What is the other camera that you can bring in? The Canon HV20 has AGC and not manual audio control if I recall correctly, so your audio may suffer from the wild ups and down anyhow.
 
Thanks for the tips. I dont know what will be my second camera yet, HV20 has manual audio control. Anyway, I will try it wireless at first.
BTW, I also have a Rode NTG2 shotgun mic which I could use too in some way.
 
Guy_Cochran said:
Sorry for making it so complicated.
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That's the funniest part to me, Guy. The video isn't complicated at all. It's practical, straightforward, and easy to understand. I honestly, believe the reason folks are intimidated by it at first, like any tutorial, is that it's ten minutes long. The first thought is, "Holy crap. This thing takes 10 minutes to set up?!" The reality is that it takes 10 minutes to explain it step-by-step, and to give the reasons why each step is necessary. It only takes a couple of minutes to set up in the real world.

I faced the same intimidation when I was getting ML installed on my T2i, but I followed a tutorial video step-by-step (using the "pause" button often) and realized that it really isn't as complicated as it seems.
 
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