Look, this is the terrible thign that happend when you use red filters on DV.
( although ti looks good through the viewfinder......)
( although ti looks good through the viewfinder......)
How To Shoot In Black & White on a DVX-100??
- Thread starter phenom415
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Barry_Green
Moderator
Yep. That's exactly what the red-lit darkroom shots in "November" looked like on the big screen too.
buti like the quality of the light though.... HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM........ Barry????
If you connected the svideo to some ohter recording device, straight out of camera, would you eliminate the red blockies? then trnadser it to Band White then back in to DV. because the way it looks is hard to regerate without the filter, it just sort of looks like Pi, Black or white , no greys.... so hard to get...
If you connected the svideo to some ohter recording device, straight out of camera, would you eliminate the red blockies? then trnadser it to Band White then back in to DV. because the way it looks is hard to regerate without the filter, it just sort of looks like Pi, Black or white , no greys.... so hard to get...
Barry_Green
Moderator
Well, perhaps. Depends on if the s-video signal is coming pre- or post-DV compression. Presumably it would do what you want.x2mag68 said:
Well, that's the thing about S-video -- you can just snip a pin off the cable and it'll automatically be black & white. S-video has a separate pin for luma and one for chroma -- if you whack the chroma pin, it'll transfer only luma, meaning only black and white.
i have an extra super crappy Svid cable!!!! which is teh pin?
MattC
Veteran
Can't you just remove the saturation in camera (you can on the XL2)? Then, after you remove all saturation, you can still boost the red channel - although I would prefer to do the grading in post. At the very least, and I've said this before, do your tests, set design and lighting in black and white (use a monitor if the DVX can't do this). You will be surprised how certain scenes that look great in color with plenty of contrast, loose it as soon as you de-saturate.
Even when working with still photos (raw file format) I remove all saturation and then adjust all my levels and curves until I get the image just right - then I add back the color. You get a MUCH better image this way.
Even when working with still photos (raw file format) I remove all saturation and then adjust all my levels and curves until I get the image just right - then I add back the color. You get a MUCH better image this way.
ehh you cant drop the colorsignal from a DVX. I wish you could. but ithink the thinking was, if youre gonna do blacks and white, yo ucan do it in post, but if you could drop it in camera, you can use colored filters. and not get that Lego festival.
but now i want to know what pin i have to kill in a an Svideo cable to make it luma signal only!!!!!
Matt Grunau
Adobe Demigod
robmyers said:
Can anyone expand on this? I have taken a pic into photoshop, made copies of each channel's luminosity values, and have found some with more contrast than others. is that what he is referring to? or taking the same approach with video and then applying some of that channel back to your video?
Matt Grunau
Adobe Demigod
MattC said:
do you selectively use one color channel's luminosity levels more than others? Besides "Color", do you use any other blending modes or combos of them?
Thanks dude
MattC said:
You can reduce saturation, but you can't remove it entirely, no.
crap... removing the chomanance pin just kills the intergity of the signal... it doesnt work....
Dyrseve989
Well-known member
Bruce Morgan said:
so is the answer for higher res with post B&W using a green filter on the DVX and mayb pulling the saturation down?
MattC
Veteran
Yes, I sometimes increase red or green (never blue).
But to be honest, mostly what I'm doing is setting the scene in B&W and again, this can be done from a field monitor. There are better software (post) options for getting a good B&W look, but the scene has to be prepared properly. I've said this before, but here goes. Using a digitial camera or your DVX take a "picture" of a plant with pretty pink flowers. Looks good right? The pink pops the greens are nice and saturated. But then turn that picture into a B&W version and you very well will see just a bunch of greys. Once you desaturate your left with a bland level of grey with little contrast and it all just blends together. This sucks. Every time I take a still digital photo I shoot in Raw format. When I then bring that photo into Photoshop I have the ability to tweak the raw image on import. The very first thing I do is desaturate the image. Then I adjust exposure, levels contrast, curves, etc. Once I have a great looking B&W photo, THEN I bring the color back in. If you do this you will always get a much better photo.
The same is true for video. Even if I'm shooting in color, I first turn my monitor to B&W to judge contrast (I learned this from Walter Graff, by the way). So with your monitor set to B&W you can then do some tests for art direction. Maybe the dress your lead was going to wear looks great in color (seemingly) but in B&W it's the same shade of grey as the wall she's standing in front of. That wouldn't be good - time for a new dress. See where I'm going with this? Once you get into this habit you'll start creating really nice B&W images. Then, the red filter stuff or zone method stuff can be handled in post. But if the original image suck, you're SOL. Try doing this for your color work as well, you can't believe the difference it makes!
Matt
But to be honest, mostly what I'm doing is setting the scene in B&W and again, this can be done from a field monitor. There are better software (post) options for getting a good B&W look, but the scene has to be prepared properly. I've said this before, but here goes. Using a digitial camera or your DVX take a "picture" of a plant with pretty pink flowers. Looks good right? The pink pops the greens are nice and saturated. But then turn that picture into a B&W version and you very well will see just a bunch of greys. Once you desaturate your left with a bland level of grey with little contrast and it all just blends together. This sucks. Every time I take a still digital photo I shoot in Raw format. When I then bring that photo into Photoshop I have the ability to tweak the raw image on import. The very first thing I do is desaturate the image. Then I adjust exposure, levels contrast, curves, etc. Once I have a great looking B&W photo, THEN I bring the color back in. If you do this you will always get a much better photo.
The same is true for video. Even if I'm shooting in color, I first turn my monitor to B&W to judge contrast (I learned this from Walter Graff, by the way). So with your monitor set to B&W you can then do some tests for art direction. Maybe the dress your lead was going to wear looks great in color (seemingly) but in B&W it's the same shade of grey as the wall she's standing in front of. That wouldn't be good - time for a new dress. See where I'm going with this? Once you get into this habit you'll start creating really nice B&W images. Then, the red filter stuff or zone method stuff can be handled in post. But if the original image suck, you're SOL. Try doing this for your color work as well, you can't believe the difference it makes!
Matt
Walter_Graff
Carbonite Member
"There are better software (post) options for getting a good B&W look, but the scene has to be prepared properly. "
I agree Matt. In fact in post playing with specific color channels and/or highlight and shadow desaturation filters, etc can yield some great results.
"The same is true for video. Even if I'm shooting in color, I first turn my monitor to B&W to judge contrast (I learned this from Walter Graff, by the way). "
Hey thanks for the nice words MAtt. Yes I always teach folks to light in black and white (or see it before they see color) as that is how i light.
"But if the original image suck, you're SOL. Try doing this for your color work as well, you can't believe the difference it makes!"
That is why it's important to learn to see greyscles as opposed to color. Look at this example. First is a color swatch. Now look at the greyscale values. Notice that what you though might be darker or lighter was not what you thought it might be.
http://www.bluesky-web.com/color_swatch.jpg
For instance the first blue and the second red in b/w aren't as much as I might think judging by color. Same for the first yellow and green. They have very similar grey values.
I agree Matt. In fact in post playing with specific color channels and/or highlight and shadow desaturation filters, etc can yield some great results.
"The same is true for video. Even if I'm shooting in color, I first turn my monitor to B&W to judge contrast (I learned this from Walter Graff, by the way). "
Hey thanks for the nice words MAtt. Yes I always teach folks to light in black and white (or see it before they see color) as that is how i light.
"But if the original image suck, you're SOL. Try doing this for your color work as well, you can't believe the difference it makes!"
That is why it's important to learn to see greyscles as opposed to color. Look at this example. First is a color swatch. Now look at the greyscale values. Notice that what you though might be darker or lighter was not what you thought it might be.
http://www.bluesky-web.com/color_swatch.jpg
For instance the first blue and the second red in b/w aren't as much as I might think judging by color. Same for the first yellow and green. They have very similar grey values.
First, let me apologize for being slightly off-topic, but last night I watched some of my (newish DVXa) footage screened for the first time at a local commercial movie complex, and as I lick my wounds, I was wondering if we could expand this discussion to include considerations for shooting for b&W (OR color for that matter) when the end product is specifically intended for projection in a large theater (400-500 capacity), using a commercial projection system.
I was the DP for this particular short but had no input during post... it looked great in the camera, on the computer monitor and even via a home projector system, but really lost its punch (contrast, saturation, sparkle) when it finally hit the screen.
I'm currently working on a new project that will probably include both b&w and color and it will be screened at the same theater. My first thought was to check with the theater and see if we could run some tests during their after hours, but it would be helpful to know what I should consider tweaking before I run the test.
Any suggestions for specific tweaks during production? during post? What's our best course of action if they don't allow us to project a test?
Hope this doesn't bend the thread too much - Thanks!
I was the DP for this particular short but had no input during post... it looked great in the camera, on the computer monitor and even via a home projector system, but really lost its punch (contrast, saturation, sparkle) when it finally hit the screen.
I'm currently working on a new project that will probably include both b&w and color and it will be screened at the same theater. My first thought was to check with the theater and see if we could run some tests during their after hours, but it would be helpful to know what I should consider tweaking before I run the test.
Any suggestions for specific tweaks during production? during post? What's our best course of action if they don't allow us to project a test?
Hope this doesn't bend the thread too much - Thanks!