How to hire

[Patryk_Rebisz]

My "social media" is the 600+ books i own and get to quote from when we talk about meaning of the next shot... Facebook is for people who don't mind living in an intellectual bubble, Twitter is for people haven't grasped how to write a coherent paragraph (hello Mr President!) and Instagram is for people who don't care about meaning behind images - clearly not something for me.

That said, the OP needs to aim higher. Everyone here has reached out for reel submissions at some point in their career - to say that "a lot can shoot and put together a good edit" is gross overstatement. In my experience you are lucky if you find 2-3% of submissions good. If your work place requires only so much skills and talent then maybe going after a creative person isn't the best solution? I really mean it. You probably want a well put together moderately creative person who doesn't mind the 9-to-5. Check their references - this is the only way to go over their BS.

 

[laverdir]

I disagree that creativity is not required, I think you have to naturally be creative in order to perform above the level that you are asked to

AAAhhh, you want someone who will act as writer, producer, director, set designer, storyboard artist, dop, grip, electrician, clapper, script supervisor, colorist, compositing artist etc. while you are paying him just for position of an editor / camera operator?

 

[laverdir]

My "social media" is the 600+ books i own and get to quote from when we talk about meaning of the next shot... Facebook is for people who don't mind living in an intellectual bubble, Twitter is for people haven't grasped how to write a coherent paragraph (hello Mr President!) and Instagram is for people who don't care about meaning behind images - clearly not something for me.

Yeah, I could compare your stand regarding 'social media' to the point of view that few friends of mine have regarding TV.
One says: "I never watch TV, there's nothing on". Then few sentences latter he says that other day he saw great fishing documentary on that same TV.
The other one has the same stand, but you can't get him when the football (soccer) game is on.

So, don't blame the media if you can't find content that interests you.

Participating in this forum has the same characteristics as if you are participating in 'social media' that you despise.
Social media is the technology that people use to share their opinions and insights.
Here you even have possibility of 'dislike' when pressing down facing arrow near the question "Did you find this post helpful?".

As you can find out, mine posts have the tendency to attract that kind of behavior after consuming them.

I don't find quoting books and authors very useful. How many books did you write?

In fact, I find reading books quite limiting in creating your own intellect through research.
You start to think through established patterns and don't know how to solve problems that you aren't familiar with.

There isn't nothing better when epiphany hits you and you solve the problem by your self.

I know that "Experientia magistra stultorum", but then you learn the mechanism to the tiniest detail.
Learning each part function gives you the ability to tune it or modify and modulate the output to your needs.
Then you can memorize key components with weighted importance and reuse them in different situations.

There is common view that you don't have to 'reinvent the wheel, but analysis is the base for latter successful syntheses.

When I discuss next shoot, I know down to a quark what is happening and the reason of doing it that way.

Not who I try to imitate or give tribute to.

 

[IronFilm]

You are being sarcastic, aren't you? I've been doing this for over 20 years with no plans of slowing down and I despise "social media". No facebook, no twitter, no instagram, no whatever the "in" thing is for today. I don't even have a website.

Yet you have nearly two thousand posts on this forum..... I think that proves my point ;-)

It also depends a lot on who is being hired, if it is someone young and up and coming who is being hired, then I'd naturally expect a great modern online presence than someone who has been doing it for decades and decades.

 

[IronFilm]

Nothing can be inferred from a lack of evidence. Roger Deakin's facebook page is almost blank.

I was certainly NOT saying a person MUST have a presence on EVERY social media platform and all forums. (Roger Deakins after all is FAMOUS for the massive amount he shares with others online, exactly proving my point here!!)


As rather that if a person had ZERO across everything in total, wellll... I'd find that a bit of a concern? And I'd wonder, why doesn't a person show a greater deeper interest in this beyond just clocking into work each day and then going home?!

 

[David W. Jones]

References might go a long way here. If possible, speak to former employers or referenced individuals who have worked with the applicant..

This 100 times over!

We interviewed people for a producer position, and narrowed it down to 3 finalists.

When I called the references given by one of them, every reference said that they wouldn't hire this person because of mismanaged budgets and missing funds. Every reference!

 

[deltoidjohn]

AAAhhh, you want someone who will act as writer, producer, director, set designer, storyboard artist, dop, grip, electrician, clapper, script supervisor, colorist, compositing artist etc. while you are paying him just for position of an editor / camera operator?

I think you're being a bit unfair with that inference - and with your suggestion that camera ops & editors are not creative.

You're also making assumptions that they are shooting the type of content that can be scripted, storyboarded and pre-vis'd to the second. There's plenty of types of content & productions where the operators are required to constantly hunt for their own shots & compositions.

And hey, even when the 'almighty art director' you praise so highly DOES take total creative control and expect the rest of the crew to be nothing more than robots, there is still plenty of creativity required on the part of the operators and editors to cover up that idiot's mistakes!

 

[Patryk_Rebisz]

Yeah, I could compare your stand regarding 'social media' to the point of view that few friends of mine have regarding TV.
One says: "I never watch TV, there's nothing on". Then few sentences latter he says that other day he saw great fishing documentary on that same TV.
The other one has the same stand, but you can't get him when the football (soccer) game is on.

So, don't blame the media if you can't find content that interests you.

Participating in this forum has the same characteristics as if you are participating in 'social media' that you despise.
Social media is the technology that people use to share their opinions and insights.
Here you even have possibility of 'dislike' when pressing down facing arrow near the question "Did you find this post helpful?".

As you can find out, mine posts have the tendency to attract that kind of behavior after consuming them.

I don't find quoting books and authors very useful. How many books did you write?

In fact, I find reading books quite limiting in creating your own intellect through research.
You start to think through established patterns and don't know how to solve problems that you aren't familiar with.

There isn't nothing better when epiphany hits you and you solve the problem by your self.

I know that "Experientia magistra stultorum", but then you learn the mechanism to the tiniest detail.
Learning each part function gives you the ability to tune it or modify and modulate the output to your needs.
Then you can memorize key components with weighted importance and reuse them in different situations.

There is common view that you don't have to 'reinvent the wheel, but analysis is the base for latter successful syntheses.

When I discuss next shoot, I know down to a quark what is happening and the reason of doing it that way.

Not who I try to imitate or give tribute to.

I presume you are an American or a foreigner infected by "Americanism." Way too many of my American friends (including my wife!) think like that assuming that the greatest discovery comes from within totally oblivious that their "aureka!" moment has happened LONG time ago and was well documented by such-and-such author.

If you looked at yourself from perspective of an outsider when that "epiphany hits" you would go back and see that the very same thing was told to you by this teacher or that author but you were too arrogant to listen. Since i've learned that about myself, i've open up to books as contrary to what you say they create NEW patterns of understanding rather than prop up old ones.

 

[abreu-canedo]

Definitely check references. Not just the references that they give you, but if you can, also reach out to the production companies or employers listed on their resume.

Also, if possible, hire the three finalists on a job each, so you can actually work with them prior to officially hiring them full-time, or whatever.

I have had several directors hire me to do a short film with them, prior to hiring me to shoot their feature film. After being hired, I learned, they also shot short films with two other DPs.

 

[laverdir]

I presume you are an American or a foreigner infected by "Americanism." Way too many of my American friends (including my wife!) think like that assuming that the greatest discovery comes from within totally oblivious that their "aureka!" moment has happened LONG time ago and was well documented by such-and-such author.

I agree that golden age of almost any aspect of our lives range from long long to long long long long gone.
One reason more to find an area where no book explain you what to do and be innovative.

Often the biggest discoveries were discovered by mistake. Don't be afraid to make them and learn from that experience.

Following someone's receipt will have predicted outcome and you will for the whole life follow someone's footsteps.

Don't like to generalize, but today's technical books have more drama then some of the classics and contemporary Belles-lettres should be in self-help section.
Don't get me started with the obsession of page volumes.

If you looked at yourself from perspective of an outsider when that "epiphany hits" you would go back and see that the very same thing was told to you by this teacher or that author but you were too arrogant to listen. Since i've learned that about myself, i've open up to books as contrary to what you say they create NEW patterns of understanding rather than prop up old ones.

Long time ago, when I was an early elementary school kid , I remember staying up all night in the kitchen till the early in the morning, before parents waked up to go to work, to solve the Rubik's cube.
At that time Rubik's cube world records were prime time news. Trust me, knowledge learned by solving it by myself isn't the same as reading .pdf document guiding you step by step what to do.

And that's just simple 3x3x3 matrix, life is way more complex.

 

[Patryk_Rebisz]

I agree that golden age of almost any aspect of our lives range from long long to long long long long gone.
One reason more to find an area where no book explain you what to do and be innovative.

Often the biggest discoveries were discovered by mistake. Don't be afraid to make them and learn from that experience.

Following someone's receipt will have predicted outcome and you will for the whole life follow someone's footsteps.

Don't like to generalize, but today's technical books have more drama then some of the classics and contemporary Belles-lettres should be in self-help section.
Don't get me started with the obsession of page volumes.



Long time ago, when I was an early elementary school kid , I remember staying up all night in the kitchen till the early in the morning, before parents waked up to go to work, to solve the Rubik's cube.
At that time Rubik's cube world records were prime time news. Trust me, knowledge learned by solving it by myself isn't the same as reading .pdf document guiding you step by step what to do.

And that's just simple 3x3x3 matrix, life is way more complex.

Don't you think it's pretty naive to imagine that you have a chance in a battle of YOU v the collective minds of at least thousands brilliant minds who have left a huge legacy of work for us take from? In that bottle you would appear pretty powerless.

Since you bring up a personal anecdote, i will as well. I have a classic car from early 70s which has components most modern mechanics don't understand (or have long forgotten). This leave me to learn how to fix the car. Obviously there are countless of internet forums filed with dilettantes spewing some overheard he-said she-said nonesense. Sometimes you read 10 pages in a thread and learn nothing. Whenever i give up i go and watch some of those photos+VO videos from 60s and 70s that were made by engineers to educate mechanics. You hear from the horse's mouth and in those 10 min videos learn more than wasting time reading countless nonsensical posts by the wanna-be mechanics relaying on "solve it myself without first understanding the principles".

Moral of the story: if you value your time learn THEN practice. And don't belittle collective wisdom as it's more useful than you imagine.

 

[aalleexx]

AAAhhh, you want someone who will act as writer, producer, director, set designer, storyboard artist, dop, grip, electrician, clapper, script supervisor, colorist, compositing artist etc. while you are paying him just for position of an editor / camera operator?

Nop, I am looking for a person that I can say hey put this together, on a scale of 1-10 I am expecting a 7-8, shows me a 9-10 because out of creativity he took something and made it much better than required
I found a guy like that once but moved to a different city, I got lucky I guess so I am trying to replicate that success

 

[filmguy123]

Creativity is one of the key mechanics of not only a successful life, but a meaningful life. We were born creative, but most of us often grow out of it.

The trick is to soak in, learn from, and respect collective wisdom without becoming narrow minded and indoctrinated.

This is not an either/or argument, it's a both/and. Collective wisdom + unlost individual passion and creative insight + courage to use those in combination to forge a new trail.

If you don't learn from collective wisdom, you'll repeat past mistakes and spend time solving already solved problems. If you just learn without doing, you never make the wisdom your own and translate it from the head to the soul level and truly integrate into you. And if you stop thinking for yourself, you never see the flaws in the past collective wisdom, or at least the opportunity and potential for something new, innovative, and better.

Stand on the shoulders of giants. But be sure to STAND and REACH and take us somewhere new, as opposed to just sitting.

I don't think debating this is conducive. The truth is in the synthesis.

Some people look at books/collective wisdom as a manual, others look at them as a platform.

 

[Patryk_Rebisz]

Creativity is one of the key mechanics of not only a successful life, but a meaningful life. We were born creative, but most of us often grow out of it.

The trick is to soak in, learn from, and respect collective wisdom without becoming narrow minded and indoctrinated.

This is not an either/or argument, it's a both/and. Collective wisdom + unlost individual passion and creative insight + courage to use those in combination to forge a new trail.

If you don't learn from collective wisdom, you'll repeat past mistakes and spend time solving already solved problems. If you just learn without doing, you never make the wisdom your own and translate it from the head to the soul level and truly integrate into you. And if you stop thinking for yourself, you never see the flaws in the past collective wisdom, or at least the opportunity and potential for something new, innovative, and better.

Stand on the shoulders of giants. But be sure to STAND and REACH and take us somewhere new, as opposed to just sitting.

I don't think debating this is conducive. The truth is in the synthesis.

Some people look at books/collective wisdom as a manual, others look at them as a platform.

I would just add to this that 90% of us are unaware that 90% of times 90% of our thoughts/feelings are not really ours but imposed onto use by the times, circumstances, culture. The one who doesn't acknowledge it sentences his experience or wisdom to have very little to do with their core value system (if there is such a thing in the first place).

 

[laverdir]

Don't you think it's pretty naive to imagine that you have a chance in a battle of YOU v the collective minds of at least thousands brilliant minds who have left a huge legacy of work for us take from? In that bottle you would appear pretty powerless.

Since you bring up a personal anecdote, i will as well. I have a classic car from early 70s which has components most modern mechanics don't understand (or have long forgotten). This leave me to learn how to fix the car. Obviously there are countless of internet forums filed with dilettantes spewing some overheard he-said she-said nonesense. Sometimes you read 10 pages in a thread and learn nothing. Whenever i give up i go and watch some of those photos+VO videos from 60s and 70s that were made by engineers to educate mechanics. You hear from the horse's mouth and in those 10 min videos learn more than wasting time reading countless nonsensical posts by the wanna-be mechanics relaying on "solve it myself without first understanding the principles".

Moral of the story: if you value your time learn THEN practice. And don't belittle collective wisdom as it's more useful than you imagine.

Do you understand that you have become one of those "wanna-be mechanics"?

Or do you think that after watching those educational materials you have become mechanical technician or maybe even mechanical engineer?
Anyway, what's the fuss with that? Cars from the '60 and '70 are made to be easily serviced and repair friendly.

In fact, even modern cars are, just deliberately obstructed with engine cover (which is the greatest automotive invention) and special tools needed for procedures.
Did manufactures do that to protect cars from wanna-be mechanics like you or to generate more profit is another question.

I would just add to this that 90% of us are unaware that 90% of times 90% of our thoughts/feelings are not really ours but imposed onto use by the times, circumstances, culture. The one who doesn't acknowledge it sentences his experience or wisdom to have very little to do with their core value system (if there is such a thing in the first place).

You mean "Monkey sees, monkey do."? There is even a movie where ideas are equal to viruses and get unconsciously implemented to peoples head in their dreams.

It's interesting that every time you get a counterargument, you open a new, unrelated subject.

First, you complain about inadequate intellectual capacity of your Facebook, Twitter and Instagram inner circle as a reason why you closed your self in books.
I understand that, books don't have mind of their own and don't ask questions you don't want to hear.

When I suggest you to try to learn NEW THINGS, FROM GROUND UP, where no books or other educational material exists and you have to make your own RESEARCH,
you offend one whole nation by saying that lack of an education is result of their traditions, institutions, and ideals.
I understand that it's the way you treat people in your country, but in this case you are an immigrant to the country you spit on.

To get back on the subject of books, you can read as many books as you want related to training for running a marathon, but you won't finish it if you have never run before.

You could see how, parallel to scientific advances in other areas, knowledge of collective mind regarding training and running changed.
(If anyone is interested, it boils down to increasing lactate threshold.)
And it wasn't changed because of collective mind, it was changed because individuals weren't accepting established knowledge of 'collective mind'.

Even if you do read all about running a marathon and train according to the latest recommended principles, it doesn't mean you will be good at it.
It is determinate by your 'talent', your natural predisposition to have higher lactate threshold then your competitors.
You can train to raise that threshold to certain percentage, but if yours is low - you are going to be just a water bearer in that discipline.

I could make the same case about playing a violin, or in a matter of fact, any other instrument, but I won't.

To get back to the real subject, hiring a person, it's can be easy or it can be easy.

One way is to hire an hiring agency or HR expert to do it for you.
They will manage the risk for you and you'll get talent equal to the rate you are offering for that position on the current job market.

Other way is to create a test working environment and evaluate the results by your self.

My suggestion is to focus on evaluating just the result of a test, leave personality alone.

Or include it, but with inverse-proportional value system: the stranger the person behaves, the better he/she is at his craft/skill/job.
Eccentricity is often counterbalance of the talent.

But, be aware, it can be faked and there are more and more persons who have artistic temperament without the talent to back it up.

You decide what's more important to you: someone who smells bad but excels on solving problems, makes your company proud when he receives the award wearing black nail polish etc.

When I was working on half a dozen projects for an automotive company where a rather controversial designer was a head of design (his name still cams up among firsts when you put company name and designer in google search).

Every one was talking behind his back, in-between other stuff, about his appearance, behavior etc. and, normaly, I developed strong prejudice even before I meet him.
On day I meet him, he was dressed as a wanna-be rock star to perform on stage before the main group, but in red leather.
Boy, was I wrong, he was brilliant. The fact is that he was responsible for overtaking the other German manufacturer in premium car sales.

The same thing could be said for their head of technology.
He wouldn't fit in two chairs.
But he offered solution for every design choice to work.

One more example, now that I'm sharing my experiences.

I'm working with this other guy at least one project a year.
He is a historian of art.
We started to work together on one festival of contemporary art that he curated.
That cooperation expanded when he was curator on national pavilion at the Venice Biennale.

He knows every thing that there is, not only about art and history of art, but every aspect of human history and evolution, every story that preceded every key event in history.
He excels in social sciences and, of course, in philosophy.
You never want for his speeches to stop. The way he diagnoses current and past social trends and their causes is unparalleled.

I don't think that I need to describe his ability to recognize and evaluate art.

But he is infertile, sterile, unfruitful to create that same art, that he appreciate so much and to which he devoted his whole life.

Remember, books, researching and socializing are his life.

 

[Paul F]

From this thread I've learned about one person I would not hire.

 

[Josh Bass]

Huzzah.