how to get rid of your f35 footage noise easily

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periferic

Member
Hi everybody,

I wanted to share with you a discovery I made today.

I was always affected by the way DaVinci resolve of AE were handling my f35 footage (prores422 C-log* in 25psf recorded on Shuttle) compared to FCP in terms of noise.
Especially when you start to mess around with the low lights areas.

In FCP7, when you drag your footage on the timeline and accept the sequence settings proposed my proves are super clean. Even the colored shadows areas look great and almost noise free.
But if you directly export it with "export quicktime movie", noise is back.
Why is it so?
I checked the sequence settings and FCP handles Psf by default as a interlaced footage (field dominance Odd). If you change it to "none", noise is back.
The problem is that some plugins in FCP struggle with interlaced footage, some are even not usable. For example, Film Stock 1.5 from Digital Film Tools (free trial 15 days).

So, what I did was just to export my footage "using quicktime conversion" with, in Video>size, checking the deinterlace box.
Then re-import and it's a true progressive footage now free of noise!

* yes C-log!
I made myself a C-log curve with CvpFileEditor (for free from Sony)
based on the S-log curve, I just entered the code values of a Cineon Curve:
Sample curve: Log
D-Range: 1000 (should be actually 1300 but I think 1000 is the limit here)
White Limit: 109% (don't forget in post, in FCP, in sequence>settings>video processing to enable "process max white as super-white")
18% gray: 50% (exact value is 470 in 10bits)
Black: 10% (exact value is 95 in 10bits)
initial gain (same as S-log): 5
other points can be entered like 90% white: 73% (685 in 10 bits)
It works quite good for me because most Film Emultion LUT can be applied directly to your footage.
 
very interesting, do you have more information on your recorder and format? Why is your footage interlaced to begin with? I shoot 23.98 onto my hyper deck and from everything I can see, the footage is true progressive. I'm slightly ashamed but also love how easy the F35 has been for me shooting 23.98 Prores Hypergamma 5, loading into final cut and being set to start editing, tweaking color. The simplicity of this workflow has been great with my F35 and I would hate to think I am introducing more grain by skipping a step.

Can you share the camera setting for the C-log curve, I'd love to ask you some questions about working with CVP editor also.
 
My recorder is the same as yours: Hyperdeck Shuttle 2. I output the signal from the camera in 25 PsF (not 25P) and record in prores422HQ.
PsF means Progressive segmented Frame. It's like interlaced but no motion between the odd and even segments. FCP interprets it right by "seeing the fields". AE or DaVinci don't. A Psf file dragged on the FCP timeline sets automatically the sequence with a field preference. If you change it to "none", you get noise. if you export it with "export quicktime movie", you get noise. If you make a quicktime conversion and check the deinterlace box, you get… grain somehow. I say grain because it's very fine 1pixel noise.

What is your output from the camera? 23.98P or 23.98PsF?

Not sure to understand your question about the camera settings for the C-Log curve. The C-Log curve is uploaded into the camera from a memory stick. Camera in Custom mode. The upload is done on the page 4 of the "File menu" in the camera.

Here is my CVP file:

View attachment C-log curves.ce2.zip

You can open it and with CVP and upload the Gamma User1 to a memory stick (Don't copy the file on the stick directly).
 
Yes the cvl file is what i wanted, thanks for the file.

What is the advantage of shooting psf to begin with? I always thought psf was a way to get progressive-like footage in an interlaced signal. Why not shoot 25p instead of 25psf to avoid the work on the backend?
 
I've been shotting 23.98psf all this time and tried to changed the settings to normal 23.98P...looks like there isn't an option!
After browsing through the manual the only options would be 50p and 59.98p

Hmm...
 
Another point about noise reduction:
There are 2 ways to reduce noise in the camera:

-Page 15 of the PAINT menu: NOISE SUP.
I tested the 4 different settings: 30%, 60%, 90% and MAX.
These % do not represent the "Strength" of the noise removal but the "width" of the noise frequency it removes.
30% = only high frequencies
MAX = all frequencies
I find this menu quite useless because high frequencies are not the worst visually because they look like grain.

- Page 08 of the PAINT menu: DETAIL1
there, you will find a line called CRISP with adjustable values from -99 to +99.
It also remove noise and in a much more pleasant manner than the NOISE SUP menu. At least, for me it works great.
I set it to +35 and I do not see any loss in details while the noise suppression is pretty effective.
You should really give it a try!
 
I personally really don't like the noise suppression option - I find it looks like the footage has been smeared. I prefer to leave the noise in there - it is part of the character of the image.
 
Incase there is any interest, there is a group buy at currently 20% off Neat Video (noise reduction) software, you must reply on the thread on REDUSER.net by the 20th...

dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?327524-Group-buy-Neat-video-noise-and-grain-video-filter&highlight=group+buy+neat+video
 
periferic, i just put your C Log curves into my F23! Very excited to see what kind of results I can get with it. Thanks for the share! Also cutting in FCP7 so i will be sure to follow your instructions closely.
 
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